Article: Tendering Casey Fien: Pros And Cons

[DaveW]

Also give me Fien at 2.5 million over Stauffer last year at the same amount.

[James]

 

On the other hand, regarding ARBITRATION:

At the end of the season, if a player is eligible for arbitration, the team has a certain window with which to offer arbitration to that player. Offering arbitration doesn’t necessarily mean the two sides will go before the arbitrator. It simply means the team is interested in retaining the player’s services. A good amount of times, the team and player continue to negotiate before the hearing and settle on a contract....from http://viewfromthebleachers.com/blog/2007/12/01/mlb-arbitration-explained/

You are correct.  They won't necessarily go before an arbitrator.  As I mentioned before, they have until the arbitration hearing is complete to negotiate a deal.  

 

Tendering a contract to a player, is the same as saying the team is willing to go through the arbitration process to keep that player around. 

 

I'm not sure what the conversation has turned to here.  The original question was whether the player could reject the team tendering a contract to them.  The answer is no the play cannot reject it and become a free agent. 

 

I don't know how the QO thing got built into this conversation.  That is a separate thing that does not apply to Fien being tendered a contract.  

 

As far as Fien goes, I don't think tendering him a contract is the worst thing.  I have to agree with others that he shouldn't be the 8th inning guy, but he does have some upside if he's more of a 6th inning guy.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

Also give me Fien at 2.5 million over Stauffer last year at the same amount.

Well, yeah. He's better than Stauffer.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Though if Ryan doesn't hesitate to release Fien or trade him the moment the Twins have a better option, Casey is a fine safety net.

Does past evidence suggest this is likely?  Unless a veteran totally implodes like Stauffer or Marquis, they don't seem to cut them.  Fien does have an option remaining which is unusual but I am not sure they'd be willing to use it.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I hate mediocrity as much as anyone else...but as long as Fien is the 5th option in the pen (including closer) I don't mind this move. I'd much rather have Fien in that role then Boyer. If Burdi or someone presses the issue you can always let Fien walk at some point Stauffer style.

But why lock in your 5th pen option with a (mostly) guaranteed deal and 40-man roster spot now?  Seems like it would be a better choice to lock in another potential top bullpen option (any Jepsen-like FA reliever), and then fill in 5th spot on the depth chart with a minor league invite like Boyer, or the most ready rookie, etc.

[J_Dobs]

I know there was rumors that the Twins had interest in bring back Boyer. I would much rather have Fien over him any day of the week. I remember we could count on him getting important outs previous year in the 8th facing the 3, 4, 5 batters. I have a feeling we will see the Fien of old days since he should be healthy, and I would take that in a heartbeat if he's our 3rd best right hand arm in the pen.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Twins have 14 relievers (or potential relievers) on their full 40-man roster right now:

 

Perkins

Jepsen

Tonkin

Fien

Pressly

Darnell

O'Rourke

Meyer

Graham

Rogers

Dean

Chargois
Melotakis

 

You can make a case that at least 6, and as many as 8 or 9, of these guys have little else to prove in AAA (as relievers anyway).

 

Not to mention they have at least 7 starters, so two of these 4 are probably in play for bullpen duty as well:

 

May

Milone

Nolasco

Duffey

 

(As well as Burdi and Reed who will in theory be in consideration, if not in spring training, then early in the season.)

 

I don't mind Fien, but I really don't see how he fits in here without blocking someone, either someone younger who is deserving of an opportunity or better yet a FA signing that would immediately fit in at the top with Perkins and Jepsen.

 

I know we're a ways out of spring training yet, but I don't see trade/waiver candidates here either other than Tonkin and Milone.  In a vacuum, committing to Fien isn't bad, but with this roster and bullpen, it looks questionable.

[HitInAPinch]

I wouldn't get myself in too much of a twist if Fien is back.  I'd just like to see new faces in the pen next year.

[Platoon]

This is one of the areas where Ryan's conservative nature really hurts him, in my opinion.

 

The 6/7th inning guys shouldn't start with mediocrity. Fien is a mediocre reliever.

 

Guys like Nick Burdi or Alex Meyer aren't going to get the call to Minnesota and become the closer or 8th inning guy overnight. They're going to start in a lesser role and work their way forward in the pen. A guy like Fien blocks higher upside players from getting to the Majors quickly and testing their ability to compete.

 

I see virtually no upside here and marginal downside. Mostly, I think it's pointless.

 

Though if Ryan doesn't hesitate to release Fien or trade him the moment the Twins have a better option, Casey is a fine safety net.

Very well put! We cannot put mediocre players on the field, and expect a contending result!

[Platoon]

Well, yeah. He's better than Stauffer.

I looked in the Webster, and found "He's better than Stauffer" in the section entitled Backhanded Insults!

[Kwak]

I think some of the confusion about Fien, a tendered contract, and free agency stem from the "Ortiz situation".  Ryan tendered Ortiz a contract for a fixed amount and the threat that if he [Ortiz] didn't accept the offer [counter-offer to begin a negotiation potentially leading to an arbitrator's decision] that Ryan would withdraw the offer--making Ortiz a free agent.  There has been no indication  that Fien's offer is contingent on him accepting the original offer.

 

As has been posted earlier, the Twins can take Fien (with a signed contract) to Spring training, cut him, and not be liable for the full value of the contract.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I wouldn't get myself in too much of a twist if Fien is back.  I'd just like to see new faces in the pen next year.

I think that's the point spycake is raising. Fien, okay sure. But with all the other guys we have, how many spots does that leave open for a new face?

[h2oface]

It sure isn't an indicator that the bull pen is getting any better.

[Highabove]

The Twins had 13 more bullpen loses then the KC Royals.

Are we really trying to compete??  Ryan's 2016 bullpen will tell us a lot about their intentions and competence. 

[Brandon]

Keep in mind this is a 1 year contract if the young guys bump him from the pen. Easy to move in a trade.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Keep in mind this is a 1 year contract if the young guys bump him from the pen. Easy to move in a trade.

Not necessarily easy to trade, if he is a "meh" performer. See Duensing, Brian. It might be August where someone is desperate for a waiver trade pickup.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I agree with spycake 100%. All of these guys should be ahead of Fien on the depth chart.

 

Tonkin

Pressly

Darnell

O'Rourke

Meyer

Graham

Rogers

Dean

Chargois

Melotakis

 

If you can't trust any of Rogers, Dean, Chargois, Melotakis to be on the active roster day one, why did you protect them all from the rule 5 draft? If you have all of these guys, why clutter up the situation with filler? Make a move to improve or roll with the guys on the list above.

[sane09]

 

If you can't trust any of Rogers, Dean, Chargois, Melotakis to be on the active roster day one, why did you protect them all from the rule 5 draft?

We protected them, so that if they develop NEXT season, they won't be playing for someone else.

[Brandon]

How so you know if they tried to trade deunsing. They were trying to upgrade the pen last year. No one was graduatin to the majors and Fien is better.

[Rosterman]

Boy, the bullpen list of names is pretty...lame. Throw in May and or Milone/Noalsco from the rotation. You still have some questionables that no one else probably deems a major league MUST (Darnell, O'Rourke) ... a couple of Rule 5 pickups that can still go up and down and one of which is an emergency starter candidate (wait, we have May) -- Graham/Pressly. You have Tonkin because..... You have Meyer being too valuable to cut loose. You kept Dean. You kept Rogers because he gives you left-handed starting depth or COULD be a long-arm out of the bullpen next season. You have a couple of guys coming off surgery that you didn't want to gamble losing, although don't see them jumping to the Big Leagues fulltime in 2016 (like at least a half-dozen other arms. possibly ahead of them in the system, could also do). And then you have Fien, who I fear could be Burton 2.0. Fien had good trade value in 2015, but didn't go anywhere. He was solid, but also unspectuacular at times, in 2015 -- and no one was calling his name in 2015. For all intent and purpose, Jepsen replaced him in the bullpen forthe next season.

 

We are still waiting to see if we lose anyone of importance in the Rule 5 (Jones) and then we can really cry about a couple of Twins decisions. But it will be interesting to see if the Twins do sign some arms for the bullpen in 2015 and who goes elsewhere.

 

I don't expect Boyer to be back just to pitch at Rochester, but have to see what demand there is for his services. I mean, Aaron Thompson came back!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

We protected them, so that if they develop NEXT season, they won't be playing for someone else.

I get that logic with one player, but 10% of your 40 man roster including Pat Dean? I gotta think a couple of those guys should be ready to pitch mop up duty. Give the mop up duty to kid who needs the experience, not some washed up old has been.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Sconnie

[sane09]

I get that logic with one player, but 10% of your 40 man roster including Pat Dean?

The 40-man roster on Opening Day 2015 contained Jason Wheeler, Logan Darnell, Lester Oliveras, Stephen Pryor, Jorge Polanco and JR Graham. That is 15% of the 40-man roster who were there:

1) for protection only (Graham)

2) called up when rosters expanded (Darnell)

3) UNEXPECTEDLY had to be called up due to injuries (Polanco)

4) Never reached MLB (Wheeler, Pryor, Oliveros)

So 10% of the roster there for protection only is not abnormal.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The 40-man roster on Opening Day 2015 contained Jason Wheeler, Logan Darnell, Lester Oliveras, Stephen Pryor, Jorge Polanco and JR Graham. That is 15% of the 40-man roster who were there:

1) for protection only (Graham)

2) called up when rosters expanded (Darnell)

3) UNEXPECTEDLY had to be called up due to injuries (Polanco)

4) Never reached MLB (Wheeler, Pryor, Oliveros)

So 10% of the roster there for protection only is not abnormal.

Actually I believe Pryor and Oliveros were removed from the 40-man during spring training, prior to opening day.

 

And our 2015 bullpen approach probably shouldn't be repeated in 2016...

[Jham]

Fien is not blocking anyone.  Either he performs like he did the first half of last year prior to getting hurt when he was lights out, or he's not great in which case the only way he's not replaced by Burdi, Reed, Meyer, etc. is because they're also  not great.  Fien has potential value beyond being a place holder.  He's a veteran, he's an emotional leader on the team, and I'd trust him in a big spot way more than any of the rookies we might call up.  

 

I sure regret having Santana, Hughes, and Pelfrey blocking Meyer and May last year, and having Escobar blocking Santana and Hunter blocking Arcia.  Having too much talent on the roster isn't a problem.  It's a lot easier to call down to the farm if a vet gets hurt or doesn't perform than to go get a vet if a rookie or soph doesn't perform.

[kab21]

 

 And then you have Fien, who I fear could be Burton 2.0. Fien had good trade value in 2015, but didn't go anywhere. He was solid, but also unspectuacular at times, in 2015 -- and no one was calling his name in 2015. For all intent and purpose, Jepsen replaced him in the bullpen forthe next season.

 

We need a special section on the forum for this mythical 'he had good trade value at XX point'.  Fien is exactly who he always was.  He is a fine but not great (or even very good) RP'er.  He wasn't going to bring back a prospect as good as Hu (Jepsen trade).  Whatever prospect he was traded for would have had minimal value to the org.

 

I wouldn't bring him back myself and instead have a Perkins, Jepsen and 7th inning guy with guys like Pressly and Graham as the 4th and 5th options out of the bullpen allowing room for an extra starter like Milone or Nolasco as the long man or prospects like Tonkin, Meyer, Chargois, Burdi.  That 7th inning guy could be May (not my choice) or a FA/trade.

[h2oface]

Casey Fien got tindered? Who did he hook up with?

 

 

Edited December 5, 2015 by h2oface

[sane09]

Actually I believe Pryor and Oliveros were removed from the 40-man during spring training, prior to opening day.

 

And our 2015 bullpen approach probably shouldn't be repeated in 2016...

"but 10% of your 40 man roster including Pat Dean?"

MY POINT was "So 10% of the roster there for protection only is not abnormal"

It may not be a good thing, but is NOT ABNORMAL for most MLB teams.

[Otto von Ballpark]

"but 10% of your 40 man roster including Pat Dean?"

MY POINT was "So 10% of the roster there for protection only is not abnormal"

It may not be a good thing, but is NOT ABNORMAL for most MLB teams.

That's fair. I do think we have too many relievers on the roster, without enough immediate trusted set up guys at the top, though.

 

I don't mind Fien but I strongly suspect the Twins are viewing him as better and more important than most posters here.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they rely on Fien near the top of the pen, and fill in with another veteran or two like Cotts, Rodney, Boyer, etc. Which almost guarantees May will be needed again regardless of whether he might be better deployed starting, we may be stuck with a lot of shaky veteran arms we are reluctant to cut, we will have little opportunity to evaluate rookies before the trade deadline, etc. And this isn't just pessimism, this is what happened in 2015. I am looking for a break from the 2015 strategy, and nontendering Fien would have represented that. Although the bigger potential break could be in what FA they might add -- haven't heard them connected to any good ones yet, so we will see..

[ashbury]

What is all this fuss I hear about the Twins giving Casey Fien a Qualifying Offer?

 

http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/video/video.snl.com/SNL_0007_13_Update_2_Emily_Latella.png

[USAFChief]

What is all this fuss I hear about the Twins giving Casey Fien a Qualifying Offer?

 

http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/video/video.snl.com/SNL_0007_13_Update_2_Emily_Latella.png

It's like my cousin, Johan Santanaroseannadanna always said...