Robinson, Thompson, Fryer Outrighted

[Seth Stohs]

The Twins announced that OF Shane Robinson, LHP Aaron Thompson and C Eric Fryer have been outrighted from the Twins 40 man roster. They each can (and likely will) elect free agency.

 

These are the first moves that the Twins have made on their 40 man roster this offseason. More to come, I'm sure.

[SF Twins Fan]

It's definitely a start and I'm not entirely surprised by these names.  

[Dman]

I would have done the same thing so I like those moves.

 

 I really liked Shane Robinson and if we didn't need space to protect prospects I would have kept him, but we have guys that can fill the 4th outfielder role on this team.  I just don't think he is needed on this team at this time.

[Seth Stohs]

Guys like Robinson have value on a 25 man roster in-season, but they're kind of a dime a dozen in the offseason. He did a very nice job in his role in 2015.

[Mike Sixel]

Agree with these moves. Good luck to them in their careers.

[Danchat]

This is a nice start. The Twins can offer Robinson another minor league deal later and see if he can come back as the 4th OF if needed.

[Thrylos]

That's 39 left now (with Darnell and Pressly)

 

Boyer, Cotts, Duensing, Hunter  Free Agents and

 

Achter, Darnell, Fien, O Rourke, Tonkin, Herrmann, Nunez (nobody of those pitchers would made it to a post-season team bullpen and there are better options than the last 2 out there...)

 

Bring it down to 28.  That gives the Twins plenty of room to protect some players, get some new blood up, and get 4-5 new pieces in trades and as FAs

[Dantes929]

Just out of curiosity who are the new guys coming up that we have to protect  and is there any downside to taking Mauer or Nolasco off the 40 man as a short term fix if needed.

[USAFChief]

Robinson-type* 4th OFers were a necessary evil when the Twins had to worry about who was going to play CF. That's not much of an issue going forward, and I hope the extra OFer is someone who can hit. Either give Arcia a shot or find a FA with some pop.

 

*i need a Blyleven fix every so often once the season ends

[sane]

 

*i need a Blyleven fix every so often once the season ends"

 

I would rather be a crackhead!

[sane]

 

Just out of curiosity who are the new guys coming up that we have to protect  and is there any downside to taking Mauer or Nolasco off the 40 man as a short term fix if needed.

IMO, the new players to protect are Adam Brett Walker, Engelb Vielma, JT Chargois, Luke Bard, Mason Melotakis, Zach Jones, Taylor Rogers and Felix Jorge. The Twins have a better idea than I do, as to whom the other MLB teams might be interested in selecting.

 

Downside to waiving Mauer and Nolasco, is the Twins paying the balance of their contracts while they play for someone else for nothing.

[ashbury]

IMO, the new players to protect are Adam Brett Walker, Engelb Vielma, JT Chargois, Luke Bard, Mason Melotakis, Zach Jones, Taylor Rogers and Felix Jorge.

Pitchers are more likely to be taken by a major league team, as they can be stashed in the bullpen. And I too would protect ABW.

 

But even though I think Vielma has a chance to be a major league player in about 3 years, I can't envision another team grabbing him and holding on to him on their 25-man for a full year; he's one I'd consider risking leaving exposed, unless a 40-man slot is just sitting there unused. And even if he's taken, chances are 50/50 he gets offered back before the end of the season.

[jokin]

 

That's 39 left now (with Darnell and Pressly)

 

Boyer, Cotts, Duensing, Hunter  Free Agents and

 

Achter, Darnell, Fien, O Rourke, Tonkin, Herrmann, Nunez (nobody of those pitchers would made it to a post-season team bullpen and there are better options than the last 2 out there...)

 

Bring it down to 28.  That gives the Twins plenty of room to protect some players, get some new blood up, and get 4-5 new pieces in trades and as FAs

 

That's the kind of serious pruning that would shake things up nicely, but the majority of the names you mention are more than likely to be retained.

[sane]

 

Pitchers are more likely to be taken by a major league team, as they can be stashed in the bullpen. And I too would protect ABW.

 

But even though I think Vielma has a chance to be a major league player in about 3 years, I can't envision another team grabbing him and holding on to him on their 25-man for a full year; he's one I'd consider risking leaving exposed, unless a 40-man slot is just sitting there unused. And even if he's taken, chances are 50/50 he gets offered back before the end of the season.

In last Rule V draft, three infielders in the first eight choices were selected and all three made opening day rosters.

Arizona Diamondbacks Oscar Hernández C Tampa Bay Rays Started the season on the disabled list
2 Colorado Rockies Mark Canha IF Miami Marlins Traded to the Oakland Athletics, made the Athletics' Opening Day roster
3 Texas Rangers Delino DeShields, Jr. OF Houston Astros Made the Rangers' Opening Day roster
4 Houston Astros Jason Garcia RHP Boston Red Sox Traded to the Baltimore Orioles
5 Minnesota Twins J. R. Graham RHP Atlanta Braves Made the Twins' Opening Day roster
6 Boston Red Sox Jandel Gustave RHP Houston Astros Traded to the Kansas City Royals, claimed by the San Diego Padres, returned to the Astros
7 Chicago Cubs Taylor Featherston SS Colorado Rockies Traded to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, made the Angels' Opening Day roster
8 Philadelphia Phillies Odubel Herrera IF Texas Rangers Made the Phillies' Opening Day roster

[ashbury]

In last Rule V draft, three infielders in the first eight choices were selected and all three made opening day rosters.

A fair point and maybe the distinction I made between pitchers and batters isn't right.

 

However all three of the infielders you listed were at AA or AAA in 2014 (before being drafted), and all OPSed at least 100 points higher than our singles-hitting Vielma who played at high-A.

[sane]

However all three of the infielders you listed were at AA or AAA in 2014 (before being drafted), and all OPSed at least 100 points higher than our singles-hitting Vielma who played at high-A.

You may be correct, but his past OPS is not a factor. All his offensive upside is projected, NOT proven. His glove is my reason for wanting him protected. The Twins and the rest of MLB have their own opinions.

[ashbury]

but his past OPS is not a factor.

Everything's a factor. I don't know why batting stats in particular wouldn't be. There's a threshold of hitting below which even the best glove can't stick; in an era of 12- or 13-man pitching staffs, 25-man spots are too precious to use on a guy you can only use on defense or as a pinch runner. Vielma is currently under that threshold by a lot.

 

The three infield guys who got drafted last December were basically raking in 2014, leading to hopes they'd do at least OK in the majors.

[sane]

Everything's a factor. I don't know why batting stats in particular wouldn't be. There's a threshold of hitting below which even the best glove can't stick; in an

Because minor league batting performance does not demonstrate that you can hit in the Majors. You have to hit successfully IN THE MAJORS, to prove you can hit in the MAJORS. NOTHING ELSE PROVES IT! AAA is full of guys who DID/CAN hit in the minors.

Most of them thought they could hit anywhere, but found out otherwise. Success in fielding, throwing, running and fundamentals translates between levels. Hitting does not.

TO repeat: You have to hit successfully IN THE MAJORS, to prove you can hit in the MAJORS. NOTHING ELSE PROVES IT!

[Dantes929]

 

IMO, the new players to protect are Adam Brett Walker, Engelb Vielma, JT Chargois, Luke Bard, Mason Melotakis, Zach Jones, Taylor Rogers and Felix Jorge. The Twins have a better idea than I do, as to whom the other MLB teams might be interested in selecting.

 

Downside to waiving Mauer and Nolasco, is the Twins paying the balance of their contracts while they play for someone else for nothing.

Ok,  I thought maybe it meant another team can pick up them and their contract since they are not releasing them but taking them off the 40 man.

[Rosterman]

Protecting a guy like Vielma doesn't make sense, as he isn't expected to contribute in 2016 and probably not even 2017 at this point, and you have more names to consider (potential futue minor league free agents). Sometimes we get too caught up on this 40-man thing. Yes, you can grrab a low-level guy (a la Santana) and possibly make a killing. But more often than not it is that 41st guy (Gilmartin for example) who is grabbed. You almost have to worry more about losing someone in the minor league portion. It is a major decision to ad someone to the 40-man. You pretty much expect them to climb into the major leagues, otehrwise, they are just taking up roster space. What is sad is that you can probably egt 20 names out of the Twins current 40-man that won't be playing at the major league level fulltime next season, which says something about how unexpectedly good the current team was this year!

[gil4]

 

Because minor league batting performance does not demonstrate that you can hit in the Majors. You have to hit successfully IN THE MAJORS, to prove you can hit in the MAJORS. NOTHING ELSE PROVES IT! AAA is full of guys who DID/CAN hit in the minors.
Most of them thought they could hit anywhere, but found out otherwise. Success in fielding, throwing, running and fundamentals translates between levels. Hitting does not.
TO repeat: You have to hit successfully IN THE MAJORS, to prove you can hit in the MAJORS. NOTHING ELSE PROVES IT!

1. You may not be able to prove you can hit major league pitching while you are in the minors, but you sure as hell can prove you can't.  AAA may be full of guys who DID/CAN hit in the minors, but that's not a reason to use a 40-man roster spot on a guy who can't/didn't. (For the Twins to lose him, some team has to keep a guy who hit .270/.321/.306/.627 in A+ on their MLB roster the full year. I think I'd risk it.)

 

2.  There is a strong correlation between minor league success and major league success as a hitter, given sufficient sample size of both.  Age is a factor in measuring success.  A guy who tears up AA at age 27 will likely decline before he has a chance to master MLB pitching.  A guy who does the same at 21 will probably figure out MLB pitching at some point in time. (A guy who is 21 and in AA usually has a pattern of success while the guy who is 27 and in AA usually has had significant bumps in the road.)  We're talking about a guy who was marginal in A+ at 21 a year after he was marginal in A-, and who has no record of hitting well at any level.  

 

3.  The CAP LOCK makes your point weaker, not stronger.

 

 

[sane]

The CAP LOCK makes your point weaker, not stronger.

Could I see the metrics, pleeze?

[sane]

Vielma is the #22 ranked Twins prospect according to Baseball America 2015 Prospect Handbook which referred to him as follows:

"Even with the likes of Jorge Polanco and Nick Gordon in the system as high-end shortstops, Vielma's sure hands, range and arm all rate as plus weapons and make him the Twins' best defensive infielder by far. Showing outstanding body control, smooth actions and advanced instincts, he is a natural shortstop."

 

See? No caps!

[Platoon]

I don't know anything about Vielma except what I have read, so this is not specifically about him. But given a choice I like a SS who can field better than one who can hit. And I like a SS who can field better than one who can hit "a little" and field "a little". I don't think there are metrics that can measure the value of a slick fielding, take charge SS.

[ashbury]

 I don't think there are metrics that can measure the value of a slick fielding, take charge SS.

Every play is tracked these days. If a shortstop's skills are translating into additional outs, that information can be teased out from the data. If his skills aren't translating into additional outs, I'm not sure what value you might be referring to.

[Mike Sixel]

The protected Max Kepler in pretty much the same situation as Vielma is in. Just sayin'.*

 

I've always been of the mind they protect too many guys that will never contribute any more to the roster than a random guy they can get in FA. I don't see any roster crunch this year at all.

 

*I am in NO WAY (lots of caps there) saying Vielma projects like Kepler.

[Squirrel]

 

Could I see the metrics, pleeze?

The metric is that no one 'liked' your original post.

 

But the day is young. glunn could get to it yet.

[sane]

 

"If his skills aren't translating into additional outs, I'm not sure what value you might be referring to"

The value which is not measured accurately by fielding metrics, but is revealed by the eye test, which pre-dated the computer.

[tobi0040]

Robinson?  I mean, who will play CF if you lose Hicks, Buxton, Rosario, Santana, and Escobar in the same game?

 

I don’t know if we are properly thinking this through.

[Seth Stohs]

Just to point out, Vielma does not need to be protected on the MLB 40 man roster this year. He signed after the minor league season in September of 2011. He'll certainly be protected on the AAA roster.