Democratic Debate

[Hrbowski]

 

I don't see anyone on the other side with an ounce of tolerance for gays, immigrants, and non-Christians.

John Kasich? Jeb Bush? How about Marco Rubio?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I only saw a few minutes.....I just don't like Clinton's "act". That said, it isn't her job for me to like her. She is clearly qualified, and I think pragmatic is probably a good word. I don't see anyone on the other side with an ounce of tolerance for gays, immigrants, and non-Christians. So, I have no interest in them, none.

I will really struggle if Clinton is on the ticket. I cannot in good conscience vote for another Clinton or Bush.

 

I also dislike her because she's a political leaf in the wind. She says what she thinks the crowd wants to hear. I have very little idea where she actually stands on most of the issues because she zig-zags so often.

[DaveW]

 

John Kasich? Jeb Bush? How about Marco Rubio?

Maybe, nope, and lol.

[DaveW]

 

 

I will really struggle if Clinton is on the ticket. I cannot in good conscience vote for another Clinton or Bush.

 

I also dislike her because she's a political leaf in the wind. She says what she thinks the crowd wants to hear. I have very little idea where she actually stands on most of the issues because she zig-zags so often.

I would be totally cool with Barry O running for a third term.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Also, what the hell are Webb and Chaffee doing running for office? Webb completely embarrassed himself and Chaffee is as hallow as the "I love yous" I said in college.

It was kind of embarrassing.

 

Chafee: You guys are great. I really like every one of you. Can I send you Christmas cards? I'd really like to send you all Christmas cards and my wife will bake you all fruitcake.

 

Webb: Chafee went over his time. I'd like more time to speak about his wife's fruitcake. Also my time in the military. This isn't fair.

[Willihammer]

He had a point though. It seemed like just as anyone got to an actual point (it wasn't just Webb), Anderson Cooper blew the whistle. Seemed overly rigid IMO.He actually said "you agreed to the rules" at some point. Honestly, who gives a damn about the clock. We all know the closing statements are rehearsed a billion times so if you have to cut those out bfd.

[flpmagikat]

 

It was kind of embarrassing.

 

Chafee: You guys are great. I really like every one of you. Can I send you Christmas cards? I'd really like to send you all Christmas cards and my wife will bake you all fruitcake.

 

Webb: Chafee went over his time. I'd like more time to speak about his wife's fruitcake. Also my time in the military. This isn't fair.

Embarrassing, eh, a little. The only really embarrassing part was chaffee trying to explain some of his votes. But i think its telling that at least 3 of the 5 were republicans at one point, 2 of them not too long ago. I think it shows the depth of the party, even if webb and chaffee are obviously not polished politicians at all, so not the best at showing that idealogical diversity. And to smerfs question there are more eloquent democrats, but honestly why bother even running this cycle? Bernie or biden are the only other candidates(or possible candidates) with even a chance of winning the nomination. Omalley I'm sure is just getting his name recognition up for future endeavors.

[ashbury]

She is clearly qualified, and I think pragmatic is probably a good word.

I remember when the newly-minted Nixon administration began in 1969. Then "only" a Security Advisor, Henry Kissinger (I believe) gave a big interview for Time or Newsweek that was titled, "Our Theme is Pragmatism". I liked it at the time. For some reason it stuck in my head, and I became less enamored with the term over the years.

 

There's nothing wrong with being pragmatic. A good president has to be. I just don't like the word.

 

BTW, among female politicians I view Sarah Palin and now Carly Fiorina as having the chip on the shoulder that helped define Nixon. "Nixon in a dress" I called Palin back in '08. Hillary's not in their league that way, but I could see her being Nixonian to an uncomfortable degree.

[PseudoSABR]

So how many people watched the debate?

 

"Nielsen reported Wednesday afternoon that 15.3 million viewers — the sixth-biggest nonsports cable telecast in history"

 

Holy crap.

[DaveW]

 

So how many people watched the debate?

 

"Nielsen reported Wednesday afternoon that 15.3 million viewers — the sixth-biggest nonsports cable telecast in history"

 

Holy crap.

I wonder if this has to do with the current DVR landscape of television?

 

Debates, much like Sports are best viewed live (versus everything else on TV which is fine to DVR and watch an hour, a day or a week later)

[Willihammer]

If Clinton wins, who's in her cabinet? 

 

Does she ask Obama and/or Biden to fill spots? Bill? A Miami Heat team of political all stars?

[DaveW]

 

If Clinton wins, who's in her cabinet? 

 

Does she ask Obama and/or Biden to fill spots? Bill? A Miami Heat team of political all stars?

Who is her VP is my question?

[Mike Sixel]

Wow, 6th largest ever? Wow.

 

And we are constantly given the narrative people don't care about politics.....

 

 

I was in a car with co workers on the way to NYC last night. The two Trump supporters could not articulate a political thought or fact if their life depended on it. They were happy to talk about what a great guy he was, but when I asked questions, they decided not talking politics was a good idea. Facts are so damn pesky for some people.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The two Trump supporters could not articulate a political thought or fact if their life depended on it. They were happy to talk about what a great guy he was, but when I asked questions, they decided not talking politics was a good idea. Facts are so damn pesky for some people.

1. In what alternate universe can Trump be considered a "great guy"?

 

2. Those two people sound a lot like Trump himself. Confident, blustering, but lacking actual substance.

 

Everyone one needs to know about the 2015 GOP can be summed up in this sentence:

 

Donald Trump and Ben Carson are leading every major poll.

 

It's embarrassing for the country and particularly the GOP. I've never seen people so wildly unqualified to hold office leading a significant poll, much less two of them leading the same polls.

 

The GOP has spent a decade fostering the idea government is evil and stupid, yet they seem surprised this is the end result of a decade's worth of demagoguery and ideology. They've poisoned their own party.

 

I know there's a remote chance of it happening but I would love for one of them to win the nomination. At that point, the Democratic Party could give me the nomination and I'd beat Trump or Carson, simply because I'm not insane.

 

The best thing for the long term success of America is for the GOP to implode into itself in hopes something more rational would grow in its place. Two party systems don't work if one of the parties isn't a viable option because they're crazy.

[Willihammer]

I agree the GOP field is a joke but the reason is because its gotten distracted with Arabs, gays, and immigrants while actually becoming the party of out of control spending. It needs to return to its ideals of fiscal responsibility and tax cuts, not abandon them.

[Willihammer]

How did Obama win the Dem nomination in 2008 and then go on to beat McCain? He promised 95% of Americans a tax cut.

[Mike Sixel]

For many moderates, he beat McCain because we were afraid of what a GOP controlled government would do, not because of McCain (and ugh, Palin).

 

Brock is correct, spending decades saying politicians and DC and government are evil.....that tends to make people think it is true, leading them to not want politicians.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I agree the GOP field is a joke but the reason is because its gotten distracted with Arabs, gays, and immigrants while actually becoming the party of out of control spending. It needs to return to its ideals of fiscal responsibility and tax cuts, not abandon them.

Well, that's just it... The GOP has let the religious right and anti-immigration zealots take the reins and replaced economic pragmatism with fear and ideology.

 

It's the very definition of demagoguery. Work the public into a lather over fear of nonsensical bull**** and do whatever the hell you please while they're distracted. Putin and the GOP aren't terribly different when you get right down to it... They're using the same playbook. Rile up the public about gays, immigrants, and those evil "others" - bonus points if you can start a war over it - which stops them from noticing just how much their daily life sucks.

 

I'm so vitriolic about the modern GOP not because I hate the idea of the Republican Party - quite the contrary, really - but because I expect better of them. I want a grounded, realistic GOP that holds tight the purse strings and stops the Democrats from losing their minds and spending money willy-nilly. I want a true party of freedom as an option for my vote: social, economic, personal, the entire ball of wax.

 

That is not the current GOP and hasn't been for quite some time. They spend more money than the damned Democrats.

[Squirrel]

 

Brock is correct, spending decades saying politicians and DC and government are evil.....that tends to make people think it is true, leading them to not want politicians.

That has been going on since Watergate. I also think that's where the tide made a major turn for more good, young people getting into the political scene on various levels. While there always has been scandal on one level or another, that was the worst and I think the effects we are seeing now is a lack of real true quality choices because it turned off generations of real involvement.

[Willihammer]

It's the very definition of demagoguery. Work the public into a lather over fear of nonsensical bull**** and do whatever the hell you please while they're distracted. Putin and the GOP aren't terribly different when you get right down to it... They're using the same playbook. Rile up the public about gays, immigrants, and those evil "others" - bonus points if you can start a war over it - which stops them from noticing just how much their daily life sucks.

I agree except with this point. If the xenophobic, racist, sexist things Trump says causes him to lead in polls, that points to a problem with the base, not leadership.

[gunnarthor]

I thought this was a pretty good summation of the democratic debate.

 

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/no-seriously-dissolve-the-united-states-1736629448

[Mike Sixel]

I agree except with this point. If the xenophobic, racist, sexist things Trump says causes him to lead in polls, that points to a problem with the base, not leadership.

Note, I am not comparing their actions or beliefs.....but Hitler and Goebbels would disagree with you, as would the history of Germany. Saying things over and over and over makes people believe them. If people had not heard that government sucks over and over and over for the last 30-40 years, they wouldn't believe it like they do. Had they not been lied to about the dangers of immigrants, they wouldn't believe it like they do. If people didn't tell them that millions of scientists were involved in a conspiracy or three to deceive them, they wouldn't believe it.

[Craig Arko]

 

I agree except with this point. If the xenophobic, racist, sexist things Trump says causes him to lead in polls, that points to a problem with the base, not leadership.

I'll go with both.

[Willihammer]

 

Note, I am not comparing their actions or beliefs.....but Hitler and Goebbels would disagree with you, as would the history of Germany. Saying things over and over and over makes people believe them. If people had not heard that government sucks over and over and over for the last 30-40 years, they wouldn't believe it like they do. Had they not been lied to about the dangers of immigrants, they wouldn't believe it like they do. If people didn't tell them that millions of scientists were involved in a conspiracy or three to deceive them, they wouldn't believe it.

I'll concede that there exists a preacher-choir echo chamber in human groups that can and is used for political gain. But there are a dozen alternatives to Trump's (and more yet in the Dem party) and yet his is the most popular. IMO this speaks to the state of the R base in 2015.

[Mike Sixel]

I'll concede that there exists a preacher-choir echo chamber in human groups that can and is used for political gain. But there are a dozen alternatives to Trump's (and more yet in the Dem party) and yet his is the most popular. IMO this speaks to the state of the R base in 2015.

Fair, and I quite literally experienced it last night. Was instructive, and sad.

[glunn]

If I were Bernie I would treat FDR as the Democratic party's Ronald Reagan.  FDR brought us Social Security, a socialistic program that has kept tens of millions of seniors out of severe poverty, and FDR's tax policy was much more socialistic than what Bernie is proposing.  Compared with FDR, Bernie's policies seem conservative.

 

I would also counsel Bernie to focus on doing more with less taxpayer funds.  There is a lot of waste and inefficiency in almost every department of the federal government, and this should be a bipartisan issue.  My best guess is that with better organization and greater accountability we could cut expenses by $200 billion per year or more while ending up with a military that is more suited to our needs and social programs that provide better results for our fellow citizens.

 

 

 

 

 

[twinsnorth49]

Glunn, are you stumping? I'd vote for you, but I'm not American.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Hmm, maybe. Its tough for me to believe someone as smart as her would do something like that out of incompetence. Agree about sanders.

 

I work in the defense sector.  She knows the rules.  We all do.  That was a blatant violation.  If I did that, I'd be in jail.  Period. 

[Badsmerf]

Glunn, I think you got it. But, I don't understand the Reagan love..... He wasn't a very good president. And, he was at the top of a gigantic scandal! I'm not sure why the gop puts him on a pedestal.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Glunn, I think you got it. But, I don't understand the Reagan love..... He wasn't a very good president. And, he was at the top of a gigantic scandal! I'm not sure why the gop puts him on a pedestal.

So many times this. Reagan was charismatic but actually did very little worth noting in the Oval Office. He was, at best, a mediocre president. He gets a lot of unwarranted credit for "crushing the Reds" but damn, there was so much silliness in his presidency. Iran/Contra, Star Wars, the astrology nonsense, never mind the long term crippling of our mental health infrastructure (he didn't get nearly the flak he deserved for that blunder).

 

If you want a post-war Republican worth talking about, I'd start with Eisenhower. Pre-war but still 20th century, Roosevelt.

 

Yet the GOP goes with the all-style, no-substance president as their golden icon.

 

Given the party's behavior, I guess that shouldn't surprise me even a little bit.