Which Loss Do You Want Back Right Now?

[John Bonnes]

If you turned any of the Twins losses into a victory, their destiny is in their own hands right now. And there have been some doozies. I thought it might be interesting to crowd source this question: which of the Twins 2015 losses drives you the craziest right now? I wonder how many we can get to?

 

I'll kick it off with a few that stick out, in reverse order:

 

1. Friday's loss to DET after grabbing a 4-run lead on ONE hit.

2. The "Let's see how Hughes is doing!" start vs Detroit that started a five-game losing streak.

3. The extra-inning loss to the Angels last Saturday afternoon after coming back and having a chance to win it in the ninth.

4. Didn't we blow a game in Houston just a couple of weeks ago?

5. The "Let's just throw May back into the rotation for 30 pitches" start.

6. The day before the "Let's just throw May back into the rotation for 30 pitches" start, when the Twins blew a game to the Rangers in...you guessed it ....the 8th inning.

7. Saturday game to the Yankees, when the Twins had a big lead and blew it.

8. The Saturday night loss to the A's right after the All-star game where everyone started wondering if something was wrong with Perkins. (Hint: there was.)

 

Wow. that's already eight. But I think we can do better. Keep adding them below. There must be some games from the first half of the season, where you said out loud "that game could come back to haunt us." Here's your chance to exorcise those demons. (Or exercise, if you want to relive those painful moments.)

[howieramone2]

You can do this same exercise on every team that has ever played. Why not enjoy the moment, and let sleeping dogs lie?

[USMCTwin]

 

 

4. Didn't we blow a game in Houston just a couple of weeks ago?

 

It was definitely this one for me.  http://espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=350906118

 

We had a chance to hand Keuchel his first home loss and we were sailing along until the 7th up 2-0.  May comes in and is asked to clean up for Duffey with runners on 1st and 2nd.  Instead May allows the next 4 batters to reach base including the nail in the coffin grand slam.  That one still hurts.  But, hopefully we can get the last laugh this year.

[Rosterman]

Any game that featured a player that shouldn't have broken camp with the Twins and is no longer on the team!

[nicksaviking]

I'd say Friday's loss, simply because at it was the most recent, we had a much clearer picture of what it was going to take in terms of victories to come out on top.

 

Also, I'd like to throw in the seven, "Let's give Ricky another shot" starts early in the year, but the team went 6-1 in his games somehow.

[Otto von Ballpark]

That's a good (or bad?) list, John.

 

We blew a lead in game 1 of the August Yankees series too.

 

The July Oakland blown save was kind of a gift lead to begin with, and Perk didn't look too bad that night, was an infield hit and a bloop, if I recall correctly.  (Similarly, he blew a save in early August to Nelson Cruz and the Mariners, although we stole a win from Seattle the previous night, so it kinda balanced out.)

 

Boyer-Fien-Pressly-Thompson combined to lose a pair of close games in innings 8-9-10 to KC in early July.  The Thompson appearances in high leverage situations were particularly inexplicable at that point -- his ERA was already over 5 and he was demoted right after these games.

 

Pressly was the first man out for the 10th inning, despite a fully rested pen, in Detroit on May 12, and quickly lost the game.  Pressly had only been up for about 10 days at that point, with extreme low-leverage use so far.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

You can do this same exercise on every team that has ever played. Why not enjoy the moment, and let sleeping dogs lie?

I'd guess most baseball fans both enjoy the competitive moments AND like discussing close losses.  They are not mutually exclusive activities.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

5. The "Let's just throw May back into the rotation for 30 pitches" start.

This is the (almost) obvious winner. That botched idea directly led to May being unavailable for the entirety of the Yankees series as we saw the Twins' pen implode spectacularly. That single decision led to multiple losses.

 

Honorable Mention: Perkins in the A's game after the break.

[twinsnorth49]

Yeah, the May short, spot start caused a lot of grief and was frustrating but the GS by A-Rod loss to the Yankees later that weekend drove me the battiest.

[DrNeau]

The ones that stick out most to me are the devastating back-to-back losses to NY and PIT. Perk blew them both. Games that we blow early are going to happen, but the ones that are in late innings and we are winning or tied, are hard to swallow when we lose. 

[Mike Sixel]

This is the (almost) obvious winner. That botched idea directly led to May being unavailable for the entirety of the Yankees series as we saw the Twins' pen implode spectacularly. That single decision led to multiple losses.

 

Honorable Mention: Perkins in the A's game after the break.

Agreed, because this led to the other losses possibly....and possibly to Berrios not being here as an option. This single decision is my least favorite of the year, because of the ripples......

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I'd randomly pick any game against Houston- they'd have us up an additional game in the WC standings

 

Houston's record would be 82-75, The Twins would be 82-74, a half game up on HOU and tied with LAA for the 2nd wild card.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The ones that stick out most to me are the devastating back-to-back losses to NY and PIT. Perk blew them both. Games that we blow early are going to happen, but the ones that are in late innings and we are winning or tied, are hard to swallow when we lose. 

They weren't back-to-back, there was a game in between, and Perkins got the loss in the PIT game but didn't blow a save/lead -- actually we never led after the 5th (Pelfrey!)  Tied at 3 through 7, PIT scored 4 in the top of the 8th off Fien and Duensing, we somehow scored 4 in the bottom to tie, and Perkins gave up a run in the 9th which proved to be the difference.

[TheLeviathan]

The blown Houston game, just because of what a difference it would make right now in the standings.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I thought April losses only counted at half or something like that.  Don't we get a mulligan for the first week of the season? 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Agreed, because this led to the other losses possibly....and possibly to Berrios not being here as an option. This single decision is my least favorite of the year, because of the ripples......

Yeah, me too.

 

That August spot start was a perfect time to audition Berrios without affecting Duffey or the other starters, and maybe steal a win -- but most importantly, keep May in his vital bullpen role that week.  Heck, even starting Graham might have netted us a win or two against Texas and NY just by keeping May in the pen, although a Berrios audition could have greased the wheels for him assuming some valuable innings later on (instead of, say, Achter).

 

Long story short, that "bullpen game" took arguably our best reliever at the moment out of commission for the 7 games surrounding it (and since he wasn't injured, we didn't even get the benefit of the roster spot to add a reinforcement).

 

TR and the Twins have actually been really good/lucky in this regard -- in the TR era, they've never fallen just short of the postseason with such an obvious in-season culprit as the May/Berrios mid-August hijinx.  We've either made the postseason handily, fallen way short, or generally had to point to less tangible losses (2008 and Smith's previous winter trades comes to mind).

 

I am still enjoying this season, but I hope they can make it happen this final week to lessen the regret over this move.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

5. The "Let's just throw May back into the rotation for 30 pitches" start.

6. The day before the "Let's just throw May back into the rotation for 30 pitches" start, when the Twins blew a game to the Rangers in...you guessed it ....the 8th inning.

John, just to make your list complete, the above should be 6a, and it should be followed by this one:

 

6b. Four days after the "Let's just throw May back into the rotation for 30 pitches" start, when the Twins blew a 3-run lead to the Yankees in the 7th inning, plumbing the depths of our bullpen with O'Rourke and Graham in a high-leverage relief spot.

 

(Bringing in Graham, with the bases loaded and a 3-run lead, to face A-Rod? Arg. Maybe this game should make the list on its own merits, apart from the May decision.)

[howieramone2]

Recap of myths concerning Berrios, for those keeping score at home:

 

1. Our favorite team should have restricted his innings in June and July.

 

2. Our favorite team decided before the season even started, Berrios would not make it to The Show this season.

 

3. Our favorite teams promotion of Duffey to The Show had nothing to do with the handling of Berrios.

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

Recap of myths concerning Berrios, for those keeping score at home:

 

1. Our favorite team should have restricted his innings in June and July.

 

2. Our favorite team decided before the season even started, Berrios would not make it to The Show this season.

 

3. Our favorite teams promotion of Duffey to The Show had nothing to do with the handling of Berrios.

Not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that he could have been up in place of May's spot start......at all.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Recap of myths concerning Berrios, for those keeping score at home:

 

1. Our favorite team should have restricted his innings in June and July.

 

2. Our favorite team decided before the season even started, Berrios would not make it to The Show this season.

 

3. Our favorite teams promotion of Duffey to The Show had nothing to do with the handling of Berrios.

1. How about limiting his innings in August?  Berrios was breezing through AAA lineups by the end of July, and was still 57 innings from his +20% limit.

 

3. Is your contention that the Twins decided at the beginning of August that they only needed one additional arm, and that they had to choose between Duffey and Berrios?  That's a more damning accusation about their handling of the situation than your "myth" #2, that Berrios ending the year as a starter at AAA was predetermined.

[USAFChief]

For me it is also the May spot start fiasco. Totally foreseeable, totally avoidable,and totally self inflicted.

 

And it affected multiple games.

 

Players will blow games, it happens. I don't know how you avoid that. management blowing a week is not the same thing.

[mikecgrimes]

Any one run loss blown late is great, but if I could have any loss back it would be the 11-0? loss the first week of the season.  That would put us at 2-5 going into our winning streak and change the entire additude of the season, not to mention it would effect run differential to the point where maybe Terry Ryan would have believed in us to the point he would have been willing to make a move to spend the Santana money pre all-star break.  That Santana money thing annoyes me because if we carry it into free agency this year even if we spend it 9 million on a multi year deal makes little difference, but to bring a rent a player with a 12+ million salary for no additional budget would have been huge.

[Mike Sixel]

Any one run loss blown late is great, but if I could have any loss back it would be the 11-0? loss the first week of the season.  That would put us at 2-5 going into our winning streak and change the entire additude of the season, not to mention it would effect run differential to the point where maybe Terry Ryan would have believed in us to the point he would have been willing to make a move to spend the Santana money pre all-star break.  That Santana money thing annoyes me because if we carry it into free agency this year even if we spend it 9 million on a multi year deal makes little difference, but to bring a rent a player with a 12+ million salary for no additional budget would have been huge.

Interesting comment on TR and what he believed based on results. I had not thought of that. Not sure it changes his mind, but maybe it does.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that he could have been up in place of May's spot start......at all.

Right, on the topic of this thread, it makes even less sense.  The Twins DL'ed 2 pitchers in the days leading up that spot start (retroactive 3-4 days, of course), and still had Aaron Thompson languishing on the 40-man.  They could have easily recalled the AAA starter who was already scheduled to start that day (Berrios) rather than pull the best arm from their bullpen for a week to lead off a bullpen game (in which he would be followed by Graham for multiple innings, opposing a healthy Kluber -- odds of victory not good anyway).

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/transactions/#month=8&year=2015&team_id=142

 

More specifically, they could have recalled Berrios and Tonkin for the game on the 14th, then optioned Berrios after to recall Duffey to start the 15th.

[stringer bell]

I'd say the losses on Pub Crawl Saturday, particularly because I think the Angels will win the Wild Card or be the last team the Twins climb over. I was crawling so I didn't see all of the first game, but IIRC, the Angels scored all of their runs without hits.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Recap of myths concerning Berrios, for those keeping score at home:

 

1. Our favorite team should have restricted his innings in June and July.

 

2. Our favorite team decided before the season even started, Berrios would not make it to The Show this season.

 

3. Our favorite teams promotion of Duffey to The Show had nothing to do with the handling of Berrios.

 

These are all likely facts, not myths.  But it all starts and stops with #2.

 

The funny part is that I think Ryan did intend to hold Berrios out all of this year for the good of Berrios.  There may be some merit to that, I don't agree, but there might be.

 

So, not trying to blow your mind here at all, but it looks like you need to choose between the "myth" that Ryan was doing what was right for his player by holding him out or your thinking that Ryan chose Duffey as the only player they'd need.  I guess, if I was a guy that relentlessly defended Ryan no matter what, I'd tend to think he was protecting his player.

 

Not having some bizarrely rigid depth chart of starters.

[Cap'n Piranha]

How about July 26 at home against the Yankees?  Twins get out to a 5-0 lead after 3 innings, still lead 5-4 in the Ninth, only to have A-Rod hit his third homer of the day, and then lose on a 3 run homer to, of all people, John Ryan Murphy.

[Craig Arko]

 

I'd say the losses on Pub Crawl Saturday, particularly because I think the Angels will win the Wild Card or be the last team the Twins climb over. I was crawling so I didn't see all of the first game, but IIRC, the Angels scored all of their runs without hits.

Agreed. That day really stung, despite the libations.

[spanman2]

I thought April losses only counted at half or something like that.  Don't we get a mulligan for the first week of the season? 

IALTO

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

How about July 26 at home against the Yankees?  Twins get out to a 5-0 lead after 3 innings, still lead 5-4 in the Ninth, only to have A-Rod hit his third homer of the day, and then lose on a 3 run homer to, of all people, John Ryan Murphy.

That was John's #7, "Saturday game to the Yankees, when the Twins had a big lead and blew it."  Probably should have been more aggressive getting Milone out of the game in the 7th, before our 4-run lead was reduced to 1.

 

Although interestingly, it was that game where May pitched a fantastic 8th inning protecting a 1-run lead that made me think he would be a bullpen weapon in 2015, which was partially undone by the oft-cited spot start in mid-August.