Does May remind anyone of Garza?

[flpmagikat]

I've been thinking about how the Twins handle pitchers, especially young guys that have some fire in both their fastballs and in their belly. I know it's not apples to apples, but i see May as being able to have a career like Garza as a starter, or maybe...I don't know, I just keep thinking of the real deal jd and ugh. Anyway don't post much anymore just a sorta thought. Very original.

[Rosterman]

The thing is that May may miss out on being a starter simply because he is valable to keep on the major league roster, but the rotation is full of others.

 

Going into 2016 the Twins have Santana, Hughes and Nolasco under contract. They have Gibson who ahs shown some consistency. Milone has earned as chance to stay in the rrotation, as well as -- at this point -- Duffey.

 

In the wings the Twins have Berrios for sure.

 

They have to make a decision on Meyer as a starter or not. They also need to get a look at Darnell for keeping on the 40-man, and ask themselves the viable worth of Rogers and Dean. Lee, Hurlbut, Baxendale and Wimmers could allbe considered for Rochester, which puts them one-stepaway. And maybe Kohl Stewart pulls a Berrios and also advances three levels in a season.

 

But the chances of May starting the season as a starter may be slim to none, especially if he continues to show promise and poise from the bullpen in September.

 

Would he ever be a starter/ Yes, if they stretch him out to go thru the order more than once (another Swarzak, but better, perhaps).

 

But May is an example of how a player has such a limited amount of time to grab a major league spot and keep it. There is always someone in the wings waiting to take your place. And for some reasons, the old guys get playing time (Hunter) at the expense of the young.

[jun]

I don't understand why folks are so high on Trevor May. He has not shown he could pitch well under pressure in close games lately. He might just be an average reliever with an ERA around 4. Although he has some strikeout stuff, he is quite hittable.

[darin617]

Not at all. Garza was a pain in the butt who thought the majors were just like the minors and thought a high 90's fastball is all you need.

Also Garza didn't want to listen to our great and knowledgeable pitching coach.... who was that Gardy's BFF?

[DaveW]

I will be more than pleased if May can duplicate Garzas results. (Sans this year of course!)

[Secondary User]

 

I don't understand why folks are so high on Trevor May. He has not shown he could pitch well under pressure in close games lately. He might just be an average reliever with an ERA around 4. Although he has some strikeout stuff, he is quite hittable.

 

His ERA as a reliever is 3.09

[jun]

His ERA as a reliever is 3.09

Yeah it's climbing though.

[jimbo92107]

The differences between the two men are more striking than the similarities. Where Garza arrived with a wicked fastball and a good curve, he seemed to think he could thrive with little more than his fastball, and despite all evidence to the contrary, refused to add variety to his repertoire.

 

Trevor May arrived as a big, raw hurler with control problems. However, May was coachable and ambitious, so he learned to throw strikes by the time he got to the majors. From there May added more skills to his bag of tricks, including an improved ability to hold runners, and now the ability to pitch and prepare like a reliever. May's determination to improve aspects of his game makes his career outlook seem brighter than Garza's.

[Highabove]

I hope May starts reminding people of Wade Davis.

[DaveW]

The notion that garza was "uncoachable" is a little absurd IMO.

[nicksaviking]

 

 Although he has some strikeout stuff, he is quite hittable.

 

He's less hittable than Pelfrey and Hughes who keep getting passes, and that first part is pretty huge considering the Twins haven't had a starter with strikeout stuff in a long time.

 

Also, May is 25 and was on the cusp of becoming the best starter on the team when he was demoted.  For the most part, the other starters have already reached their peak potential and are well into their decline phase of their career.

[nokomismod]

I think Garza had a little more movement on his fastball, but I might be remembering incorrectly. May's heater while quick is pretty straight.

[tobi0040]

May has better stuff

[Secondary User]

Yeah it's climbing though.

Two outings, one of which he actually managed to limit the damage after a leadoff triple and another where he was just downright off.

 

Not worried about him at all

[Blake]

May is not anywhere near the head case Garza was.

 

I believe Joe Maddon described Garza as recovering mentalist or some such.

 

 

[jun]

He's less hittable than Pelfrey and Hughes who keep getting passes, and that first part is pretty huge considering the Twins haven't had a starter with strikeout stuff in a long time.

 

Also, May is 25 and was on the cusp of becoming the best starter on the team when he was demoted.  For the most part, the other starters have already reached their peak potential and are well into their decline phase of their career.

I find it very hard to believe Molitor would demote the best starter on the team. Was he crazy?

[DaveW]

I find it very hard to believe Molitor would demote the best starter on the team. Was he crazy?

I like may and think he should have stayed in the rotation, but he wasn't on his way to being the best pitcher in the rotation, for one, the results were ok but not great, for second he seemed to never be able to pitch longer than 5-6 innings per start. If you want to be "the man/ace" of a rotation you need to regularly go 7 innings or longer.

[dbminn]

Garza spits a lot more than May.

[h2oface]

 

. May's determination to improve aspects of his game makes his career outlook seem brighter than Garza's.

People seem to forget how valuable Garza was. The 2008 ALCS MVP is not too dim. No pressure in the playoffs, eh? If the Twins had a manager with Phil Jackson's demeanor, things would have been different and the Twins might have seen the brightest years and not the Devil Rays. Shame on Garza for having passion. 

 

I am always amazed how folks can diagnose others as "head cases" with no credentials to be qualified to do so. Three fingers are pointing back to the real head cases, perhaps?

[Thegrin]

 

I find it very hard to believe Molitor would demote the best starter on the team. Was he crazy?

No. Molitor is incompetent.  May was trending up when he was sent to the Bullpen.  .

[diehardtwinsfan]

Garza's mental issues were well documented, which included him having to get counseling in Tampa while he was there.  I'm sure some was maturity, but it's not a stretch to say it was there.  That said, this doesn't mean the Twins were right in dumping him. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I like may and think he should have stayed in the rotation, but he wasn't on his way to being the best pitcher in the rotation, for one, the results were ok but not great, for second he seemed to never be able to pitch longer than 5-6 innings per start. If you want to be "the man/ace" of a rotation you need to regularly go 7 innings or longer.

 

Yeah, I tend to agree here.  Somewhere along the line, we've failed to recognize that a really good FIP does not necessarily mean good results.  It's an indication that he can get better, but May (while pitching quite well) was not the best guy in the rotation.  I think long term, May can be that guy, but that may not happen right away.

[Winston Smith]

No, May doesn't spit enough!

[jimbo92107]

People seem to forget how valuable Garza was. The 2008 ALCS MVP is not too dim. No pressure in the playoffs, eh? If the Twins had a manager with Phil Jackson's demeanor, things would have been different and the Twins might have seen the brightest years and not the Devil Rays. Shame on Garza for having passion. 

 

I am always amazed how folks can diagnose others as "head cases" with no credentials to be qualified to do so. Three fingers are pointing back to the real head cases, perhaps?

Frustrating thing about Matt Garza was that everybody could see right away he had All Star physical talent. I just looked at his stats, he has won 15 games only once in his career. Otherwise his best total wins were 11, 10, and 10.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/garzama01.shtml

 

This is a guy that could throw a 96mph heater all day long, and had what appeared to be a good, hard curve. Trouble is, apparently he never developed into a clever pitcher. He didn't learn to add and subtract speed from his heater, didn't learn to move his curve around the plate, etc. The result is a hard-throwing, mediocre pitcher.

[tobi0040]

 

Frustrating thing about Matt Garza was that everybody could see right away he had All Star physical talent. I just looked at his stats, he has won 15 games only once in his career. Otherwise his best total wins were 11, 10, and 10.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/garzama01.shtml

 

This is a guy that could throw a 96mph heater all day long, and had what appeared to be a good, hard curve. Trouble is, apparently he never developed into a clever pitcher. He didn't learn to add and subtract speed from his heater, didn't learn to move his curve around the plate, etc. The result is a hard-throwing, mediocre pitcher.

 

No doubt he has not lived up to expectations.  But they were high.  He had a sub 4.00 ERA six years in a row.  I am not sure W-L is a great way to evaluate his career.  One year he had a 3.32 ERA over 198 IP and was 10-10.

 

Career 3.99 ERA and he had about 500 IP by age 25.  Another three years in the AL East.

[h2oface]

 

Garza's mental issues were well documented, which included him having to get counseling in Tampa while he was there.  I'm sure some was maturity, but it's not a stretch to say it was there.  That said, this doesn't mean the Twins were right in dumping him. 

 

This is exactly what I mean. It is not unusual for a very smart and creative person to be in therapy/counseling, and I certainly wouldn't accuse couples that decide to seek counseling as documenting mental issues. Mental issues... head cases.... it is just too easy to throw out there, inherently disparaging, and very irresponsible, I feel. Folks liked to use it to describe Liriano, too. The fact that a posse of people without cred to do so may have said similar disparaging things doesn't make what they said any more meaningful or accurate.

 

May does not remind me of Garza at all.

[Jham]

 

This is exactly what I mean. It is not unusual for a very smart and creative person to be in therapy/counseling, and I certainly wouldn't accuse couples that decide to seek counseling as documenting mental issues. Mental issues... head cases.... it is just too easy to throw out there, inherently disparaging, and very irresponsible, I feel. Folks liked to use it to describe Liriano, too. The fact that a posse of people without cred to do so may have said similar disparaging things doesn't make what they said any more meaningful or accurate.

 

May does not remind me of Garza at all.

 

To be fair, I'm not sure the people saying that Garza is a "head case" actually mean he's mentally imbalanced in all aspects of his life.  Just on the mound.  His seeing a psychologist doesn't mean he has problems controlling his emotions, but anyone can see he does.  He should be applauded for caring for his mental health and seeing a therapist whether it was simply a sports psychologist or otherwise.  At any rate, I don't think people mean anything offensive when they say Garza is a head case.  Just that his seemingly common emotional outbursts hold him back.

 

[kab21]

 

I like may and think he should have stayed in the rotation, but he wasn't on his way to being the best pitcher in the rotation, for one, the results were ok but not great, for second he seemed to never be able to pitch longer than 5-6 innings per start. If you want to be "the man/ace" of a rotation you need to regularly go 7 innings or longer.

 

I think this is a poor measuring stick to use for a rookie especially when that rookie went 6+ innings in 7 of his last 9 starts.

 

And it doesn't change the fact that the Twins rotation was in shambles at the time.  Pelfrey had returned to being Pelfrey.  Milone had been inconsistent.  Hughes hadn't been right all year.  Nolasco had a nice FIP but was still pitching awful.  Santana was still suspended.  Gibson was in the midst of a hot streak but has returned to not striking batters out.

 

It might be valid to say that May wasn't doing great when demoted but he was probably the 1st or 2nd best pitcher (behind Gibson) at the time.

 

May is a big, strong pitcher that throws hard but that is where the similarities end imo.  It was a battle to get Garza to not throw fastballs (the uncoachable part) and I have never heard the same about May.  Garza pitched his best (xFIP-wise) with the Cubs and his fastball usage was at the lowest level of his career so he finally started listening.  Of course he threw a lot more sliders and his arm hasn't been that great since then.