PH Herrmann for Buxton

[DuluthFan]

The last time Buxton struck out 4 times in a game, he was put on the DL the day afterwards with a wrist injury. 

 

And if I'm not misremembering the specific game, Buxton was also up in the 9th inning with the team down one run and needing a base runner. He was NOT pinch hit for in that situation even though at the time there were three available hitters on the bench, all of which had on-base numbers that crushed Buxton's at that time.

 

This was a situation of a rookie batter with horrible numbers who had looked bad striking out four times earlier in the game, in a game deciding at bat. This is a no brainer, pinch hit situation.

 

Buxton may be a top prospect, and a prized rookie with potential, but he is not yet a proven major league player. He still has a ways to go.

[DaveW]

I'll go out on a limb here and speculate it was a LH pinch hitter for a rookie RH hitter, against a RH pitcher, in a situation where one out is all you have to play with.

 

It's not all that complicated.

but Herrman is a terrible hitter (possibly the worst position player in all of the MLB) no matter what side of the plate it's on.

 

Hell, have buxton try to bunt on, the percentages are a lot better than Herrmann doing anything.

[Minniman]

 

That might be the dumbest PH decision I have ever seen. Why? Just, why?

 

Maybe the manager is sending a message to Buxton to have better discipline at the plate.

 

At this point, it is more important for the young players how to learn to play baseball at this level rather than make the playoffs as a wild card team.

 

[HitInAPinch]

The continuing over-reaction by some is getting flat out boring.  Maybe you should pause a bit and listen to what the manager says:

 

``It wasn't happening for him tonight,'' Twins manager Paul Molitor said, `` and I thought the best chance was to get someone else up there and give him some swings, given the way his night had gone.'' Molitor said it looked like Buxton was having trouble seeing the ball.

 

At this point, hitting 1st or 9th shouldn't matter to Buxton.  If it does, he should be hitting in Rochester. 

[Riverbrian]

Herrmann is left handed and Buxton clearly didn't have it.

 

I probably would have done the same.

 

The true shame is that we don't have a power hitter who can pinch hit off the bench in a situation like that... Such as Thome or Arcia or Vargas.

 

The Twins may want to look into this.

[gil4]

 

 You get to see one of the more prolific power hitting young players in this game launch a 500ft HR, only to have it become a double because of a poorly constructed domed stadium...

On a positive note, that shot was an amazing sight to see, even if it was only the hardest-hit double in history (or one of them.)  If that was at Target Field, would we be comparing it to the Thome flag pole HR?

[Platoon]

Two thoughts: What made this so strange to me, is it was made by Mr. "I have pinch hit for almost nobody this year" Molitor.

 

And, I agree with Brian, the Twins might look into putting at least one better hitter on the bench. Saying your having no luck PH this year, with this bench, is like saying your having no luck getting eggs, but all your chickens are roosters. It's not luck, it's poor coop management!

[nytwinsfan]

I want Buxton batting as much as possible. However, he looked just terrible in his first four at bats. In his first three at bats, Smyly was throwing fastballs between 88 and 91, pretty much right down the middle and he wasn't hitting it. I agree that Molitor played a hunch in a playoff race, and I have no problem with that.

I didn't see the game until the 9th, but if that is the case, I'm pretty worried. Whether physical or mental, that's kind of worrisome. Hopefully it is just the pressure of a rookie with high expectations (to put it mildly) batting leadoff in a meaningful big league game in late August. That would at least be understandable, even if it isn't encouraging.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The last time Buxton struck out 4 times in a game, he was put on the DL the day afterwards with a wrist injury.

 

And if I'm not misremembering the specific game, Buxton was also up in the 9th inning with the team down one run and needing a base runner. He was NOT pinch hit for in that situation even though at the time there were three available hitters on the bench, all of which had on-base numbers that crushed Buxton's at that time.

 

This was a situation of a rookie batter with horrible numbers who had looked bad striking out four times earlier in the game, in a game deciding at bat. This is a no brainer, pinch hit situation.

 

Buxton may be a top prospect, and a prized rookie with potential, but he is not yet a proven major league player. He still has a ways to go.

You are misremembering, rather badly. Buxton's earlier 4 strikeout game was actually a 6-1 Twins win:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN201506240.shtml

[Shane Wahl]

I made the mistake of reading the rest of this thread. Unbelievable. Sorry, Dave!

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Did Herrmann try to bunt his way on, by chance?

[Shane Wahl]

Do I have to be the one to say it: Chris Herrmann is not a major league hitter.

Sidenote--apparently in the LLWS last night, a kid who was 0-5 with 5Ks hit a walk-off homer.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Vargas, Arcia and Pinto went a combined 3-11 in pinch hitting duty last night in Rochester.

[Mike Sixel]

The fact that Chris Herrmann is the best option there (which I don't agree with, but whatever), is a bad, bad thing that is on the GM.

 

They need an actual bench, not 25 pitchers.

 

that said, sure looks like Buxton isn't even close to the same class as the other super rookies that came up this year.......not worried long term, but short term, a bit....

[Winston Smith]

Roster construction is the problem. When you have to use Herrmann as a pinch swinger your roster construction sucks.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Madison Bumgarner is 1 for 2 pinch hitting this season (base hit was line drive to outfield). Maybe we could go after him in the offseason.

 

Ok, no more snark from me. The jokes write themselves. I can't even...

 

 

Anyway, this team is playing really well. Another game tonight to focus on.

[Kwak]

A corollary to Hermann PH--what does Nunez think?  "He picked Hermmann instead of me?

[Jham]

 

Roster construction is the problem. When you have to use Herrmann as a pinch swinger your roster construction sucks.

 

Chris Herman is a backup catcher.  Is he ideal? No.  But I don't really see him as a huge problem or drop from Zuke.  Buxton failing to show up last night and take competitive at bats cost his team far FAR more than Herman could ever cost us in one at bat at the end of the game.

 

Buxton flailed so ineffectively, it literally felt like I was watching a right handed Nishioka.  It's one thing to K 3 times in a game while battling to 3-2 counts as Sano has done.  It's quite another to whiff at 92 mph fastballs down the middle for 4 straight at bats.  Once or twice did he get wood on a ball and flair it to the foul ground?  Put him up there same side against a guy who throws 97?  Come on.

 

Herman has 2 HR this year.  Buxton has 0 in his career and has never even come close.  It's a 1 run game, you're down to your last out.  

 

Buxton never tried to bunt, never altered his approach, never choked up, and basically took his at bats like he was asleep.  He's a pro.  He needs to compete every night.  I saw him looking at his thumb with Hunter in the dug out.  If he's hurt, tell the trainer.  If he's playing and he can't swing, bunt.  If he's just not quick enough to get to a 92 mph heater from a lefty, then we're seriously boned.

 

Don't make Molitor or Herman the scapegoat for a disappointing loss.  Herman gave us a better chance of winning last night, albeit slight.  Basically like getting 2 extra powerball numbers.

 

 

 

 

[nater79a]

The bigger issue is that we need better pinch hitting options late in the game. Sept 1 can't get here fast enough. Get Vargas up here and maybe even James Beresford who's having a heck of a year offensively.

[Turd Furgeson]

 

Chris Herman is a backup catcher.  Is he ideal? No.  But I don't really see him as a huge problem or drop from Zuke.  Buxton failing to show up last night and take competitive at bats cost his team far FAR more than Herman could ever cost us in one at bat at the end of the game.

 

Buxton flailed so ineffectively, it literally felt like I was watching a right handed Nishioka.  It's one thing to K 3 times in a game while battling to 3-2 counts as Sano has done.  It's quite another to whiff at 92 mph fastballs down the middle for 4 straight at bats.  Once or twice did he get wood on a ball and flair it to the foul ground?  Put him up there same side against a guy who throws 97?  Come on.

 

Herman has 2 HR this year.  Buxton has 0 in his career and has never even come close.  It's a 1 run game, you're down to your last out.  

 

Buxton never tried to bunt, never altered his approach, never choked up, and basically took his at bats like he was asleep.  He's a pro.  He needs to compete every night.  I saw him looking at his thumb with Hunter in the dug out.  If he's hurt, tell the trainer.  If he's playing and he can't swing, bunt.  If he's just not quick enough to get to a 92 mph heater from a lefty, then we're seriously boned.

 

Don't make Molitor or Herman the scapegoat for a disappointing loss.  Herman gave us a better chance of winning last night, albeit slight.  Basically like getting 2 extra powerball numbers.

 

It's really not his hit tool. Buxton has a quick bat, he's hit major league pitching, not very well but he can certainly catch up to major league pitching and there's no doubt he's seen some high velocity in the minors as well. 

 

I think its probably some combination of a failure to recognize pitches and confidence. Obviously the key to being successful as a hitter in the major leagues is making adjustments and he's getting his lumps in early so he's going to have to adjust. 

[tobi0040]

I would have let Buxton hit.  Even if I thought Hermann had slightly better odds. It would have been a vote of confidence from his manager.

 

I guess I think that being pinch hit for by a guy that should be in AA will hurt his confidence more than a 5 k game.

[tobi0040]

 

Roster construction is the problem. When you have to use Herrmann as a pinch swinger your roster construction sucks.

 

AL league average for pinch hitting is 70 AB's with a .210 average.  TB has 142 AB's with a .225 BA.

 

KC is the only team behind us but they have a lineup with fewer Suzuki's, Santana's. Robinson's, etc.  We have 45 attempts with a .111 average.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/pinchAtBats/type/expanded-2/order/true

[Mike Sixel]

45 PH attempts, for a .111 average!

 

My eyes are bleeding*

 

*not really, don't worry, I'm fine

[bird]

 

That might be the dumbest PH decision I have ever seen. Why? Just, why?

 

 

Must've been your 4th game?

 

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

AL league average for pinch hitting is 70 AB's with a .210 average.  TB has 142 AB's with a .225 BA.

 

KC is the only team behind us but they have a lineup with fewer Suzuki's, Santana's. Robinson's, etc.  We have 45 attempts with a .111 average.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/pinchAtBats/type/expanded-2/order/true

I think that is mostly due to the quality of pitchers pinch hitters are facing. Pinch hitting is likely to be in the last 3 innings of the game, and relievers are pretty damn good these days....well, on the whole they are, even more so in the 8th and 9th.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Herrmann is left handed and Buxton clearly didn't have it.

I probably would have done the same.

The true shame is that we don't have a power hitter who can pinch hit off the bench in a situation like that... Such as Thome or Arcia or Vargas.

The Twins may want to look into this.

This, over and over this. How long have so many of us been saying this exact thing? Pinch hitting for Buxton after how he looked at the plate all night was not a stupid idea in the slightest, but when the only guys you have to turn to consist of Eduardo Nunez, Chris Herrmann and Eddie Rosario, it lends itself to looking colossally stupid.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

I highly doubt it was the case, but is it possible that Moliter is pissed about his bench options? And that this was a way to prove and show his frustration? Again, I think that is likely not the case, but say he has asked for a better bench bat over and over and he has been denied by the the FO...this does seem like an effective way to make a point. If nothing else, hopefully it made a point by accident....regardless, help is on the way next week.

[tobi0040]

 

I think that is mostly due to the quality of pitchers pinch hitters are facing. Pinch hitting is likely to be in the last 3 innings of the game, and relievers are pretty damn good these days....well, on the whole they are, even more so in the 8th and 9th.

 

True, that is why the overall average is low (.225).  But we are hitting less than half of that with about the fewest attempts in the league.

 

The fact that we can't find an upgrade for Suzuki (.619 OPS), Hermann (.556 OPS), Robinson (.652 OPS), or Santana (.541 OPS) is sad.  Those four have almost 700 AB's this year.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

If you absolutely must PH for buxton (which you shouldn't) then why not have Rosario PH for him and just have Robinson swing away the at bay prior? Or hell, put Nunez in, not a career .550 OPS guy who has zero speed to boot.

 

I'm guessing they thought Rosario had a better chance to get on so hitting him earlier was better for their chances.  You make decisions one at a time.

 

You'd probably be here ranting and raving if Robinson had gone to bat, gotten out, and then Rosario had come through with a pinch hit.

 

I'm not in love with the move, but Hermann has a better shot of hitting a game tying home run in that spot than Buxton and that was the logic, for better or worse.  The real problem, as others have pointed out, is that it's not Vargas or someone else available in that spot.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

 

 

I'm not in love with the move, but Hermann has a better shot of hitting a game tying home run in that spot than Buxton and that was the logic, for better or worse.  The real problem, as others have pointed out, is that it's not Vargas or someone else available in that spot.

 

 

I don't think EITHER of Buxton or Hermann had a good chance to succeed in that situation. They were probably too concerned about Buxton's ego had he failed again in that situation, but pulling him pretty much says you expected him to fail anyways, and is even more embarrassing that he was pulled for a backup catcher. He already had a bad night, so pulling him only ensured that he didn't have the chance to turn that around. They should have left him in. If he gets a hit it could have been season turning for him, and lit the team on fire again. Not likely, but there just many good options in that situation.