Should/Will Twins re-sign Torii Hunter?

[Loosey]

No / Probably, unfortunately.

 

[dxpavelka]

 

Please God, no.

 

While I think Ryan overrates veteran leadership/performance to a frustrating degree, I think there's almost a zero chance of Hunter returning to the Twins in 2016 unless he accepts a $1-3m contract and a bench role from Opening Day forward.

 

The 2016 Twins have:

 

Hicks

Rosario

Buxton

Arcia

Kepler

 

If Ryan can't field a competent OF with those options, well... I don't know what to say.

4 months ago all of those same options were available and the prevailing opinion among the faithful on these types of threads was that our OF situation was as dire as any position on any team in the bigs.  Now the guys you mention all look like viable options.  Is it possible that the presence of Hunter has had something to do with the growth of Hicks and the emergence of Rosario?  Not only possible but likely.  If there is any chance that statement is true then I want him doing the same thing for Buxton next year that he did for the other two this year.  Not at $10 million per but I'd certainly pay him half that.  I mean why not-it ain't my money.  Of course the other alternative is to continue to keep Shane Robinson around as a dual threat guy in case we need him in the bullpen again.

[bluechipper]

This feels like the Mike Pelfrey situation from a few years ago. Everyone thought there was no way they would re-sign him...and then TR gave him a 2 year deal. And that was for a guy who hadn't spent the majority of his career as a Twins fan favorite. So, yeah I'd say there is a better than 70% chance they re-sign him.

[PseudoSABR]

I think it's a forgone conclusion.  I hope he accepts a role as bench bat/part-time player.  He's arguably been one of their most productive hitters, and given his roots here, I don't think it's realistic to simply let him walk after he came back to retire here.  

[jimmer]

 

4 months ago all of those same options were available and the prevailing opinion among the faithful on these types of threads was that our OF situation was as dire as any position on any team in the bigs.  Now the guys you mention all look like viable options.  Is it possible that the presence of Hunter has had something to do with the growth of Hicks and the emergence of Rosario?  Not only possible but likely.  If there is any chance that statement is true then I want him doing the same thing for Buxton next year that he did for the other two this year.  Not at $10 million per but I'd certainly pay him half that.  I mean why not-it ain't my money.  Of course the other alternative is to continue to keep Shane Robinson around as a dual threat guy in case we need him in the bullpen again.

Yeah, except that isn't anywhere near the only alternative.

 

And the idea about Hunter being the key ingredient to Rosario and Hicks doing well this year, that's speculation at the very best.  Maybe they Rays pulled out 30 more wins in 2008 (in comparison to 2007) because they dropped the word Devil from their name?

 

Another thing about giving Hunter all the credit, it takes away credit to like the 30 million other people who have had a hand in their development, along with taking credit away from the players themselves.

[Pardon My Dinger]

Torii's going to want to play for sure, and somebody out there is going to have room for the 20+ homers he's bringing with him from 2015.  Would Torii rather not play or play somewhere else? I think that's the question.

[rghrbek]

 

I think it's a forgone conclusion.  I hope he accepts a role as bench bat/part-time player.  He's arguably been one of their most productive hitters, and given his roots here, I don't think it's realistic to simply let him walk after he came back to retire here.  

That the rub though isn't it?   I mean can Torii except that role?   My guess is that he cannot.  He should/could hit 20 bombs this year and he will expect to play next year.   When the Twins sign him, it will be for 120 games minimum.

[Halsey Hall]

If Torii wants to play, then yes, I think we'll sign him. My crystal ball says he stays as an outfield coach/dh bench player leading to a coach the following season. 

[jimmer]

 

If Torii wants to play, then yes, I think we'll sign him. My crystal ball says he stays as an outfield coach/dh bench player leading to a coach the following season. 

I think when he retires, he'll go to TV.

[curt1965]

No, please no.

[Platoon]

They shouldn't and likely won't, but they will need a veteran OF of some type.

Why?

[Platoon]

NO! NO! NO! But they will sign him. Without a doubt. Dangling Torri Hunter in front of Ryan, is the equivalent of dangling a carrot in front of Hannah's horse. Plus, he won't sign and sit on the bench, he will be in RF, Arcia will be hitting HR's (and striking out), both at a phenomenal pace for someone else, and Kepler will be probably dawdling around in Rochester. It's the Twins Way!

[DocBauer]

Honestly, for me, this is a tough decision. I wish it wasn't, but it is.

 

After flirtation with indecision bordering on NO, I was behind the Hunter signing. In fact, I was on board before it happened, wavered, then climbed back on board again. Call me a romantic or overly optimistic, but seeing what he did last season, having witnessed many times before how a player has that "one year" still left in them, especially when they do something like come home again, I felt pretty strongly about him offering a solid and productive bat, OK defense, leadership and experience. Pretty much, that's exactly what we have received.

 

But to me, it was a one year ticket. That second year for the aging, will he or won't he, ballplayer just never ends happy. I have to confess, about mid-season I was beginning to waver again. For a fair contract, (i.e. less), would he be a smart option for a 4th OF/DH spot? Insurance for all the youngsters stumbling, possibly a DH option along with Arcia if he gets his head a little less lopsided? 

 

I wouldn't look for a bridge, buuuuut, for a smaller contract, a reserve/part time understanding, I could understand it. But they shouldn't. Will they? I'm actually thinking no. Rosario, Hicks, Buxton, Kepler, hopefully/possibly Arcia, I'm thinking Hunter is only 50-50 at best, and only for a cut contract. 

[Jham]

I've seen the Twins go into season after season with no Plan B.  I've seen Terry Ryan's inability to make deals to help the team and fill holes in the roster.  I'm satisfied with the production we've seen from Hunter.  I'm satisfied with the level of mentorship cited by the players themselves (especially Hicks) we've received.  I'm satisfied that he's not a long-term fixture who will take up money and significant playing time from younger players.  

 

I don't have a problem with Hunter being retained next season so long as a) he's not plan A (think Konerko in his final year); or we use our glut of knocking on the door types to improve the rotation, or catching situation.  I'd be far more upset if we don't re-sign him, Rosario and Hicks regress, Arcia still can't figure it out, Buxton gets hurt again or isn't productive, and we end up having to trade prospects for an outfielder who might well be worse than Hunter.  

[HitInAPinch]

Jeez, not much love for a guy that's 2nd on the team in both HR's and RBI's, 4th in SLG% and 5th in OPS

 

I would sign him, with the understanding that Hunter is wearing out from playing too many games.  I think he'd be a great PH, good, limited time backup OF and DH.  Smallish salary with option for a low-level management position.  If Hunter is in the lineup as often as he is now, then 2-3 prospects have probably under-performed.

 

Then again, how sweet it would be if a couple of those prospects blew our minds in spring training??

[PseudoSABR]

 

That the rub though isn't it?   I mean can Torii except that role?   My guess is that he cannot.  He should/could hit 20 bombs this year and he will expect to play next year.   When the Twins sign him, it will be for 120 games minimum.

Molitor needs to rise above veteran expectation and play the productive player.  Right now, that is Hunter.  Next year, it might not be.  While a complete decline is inevitable for Hunter, we've (Twins fandom) been wrong about it for many years and counting.  

 

I think if Plouffe gets traded; there might be enough at bats for everyone, including one of Arcia/Vargas...

[jimmer]

 

Jeez, not much love for a guy that's 2nd on the team in both HR's and RBI's, 4th in SLG% and 5th in OPS

 

 

Assuming we want to key in on those stats and those stats alone (or compare corner OF stats to middle IF, CFs and catchers), that's more of an indictment on the state of our offense than anything else.

[jimmer]

 

Molitor needs to rise above veteran expectation and play the productive player.  Right now, that is Hunter.  Next year, it might not be.  While a complete decline is inevitable for Hunter, we've (Twins fandom) been wrong about it for many years and counting.  

 

I think if Plouffe gets traded; there might be enough at bats for everyone, including one of Arcia/Vargas...

He has declined in BA, OBP, SLG%, OPS, OPS+ and wRC+ from last year to this.

 

His BA and OBP, since the calendar hit July is under .200 and .250 respectively. His slashline since the break is .209/.260/.403.  From a corner OF. He's fallen off the cliff.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I've seen the Twins go into season after season with no Plan B.

Yeah, but often if "Plan B" is on a guaranteed contract, by default they become "Plan A."  If you can guarantee Torii stays in the Paul Konerko role, I guess that's okay, but it's also not clear how valuable the Paul Konerko role really is -- he didn't help the 2014 White Sox all that much, and they had room for him because Adam Dunn was their DH on an expiring contract.  Presumably our DH could be a younger guy we wouldn't want to take starts away from.

 

Also, Jordan Schafer was our Plan A in CF this season.  I think even with Torii, we'll have a better Plan A than that in the OF corners and at DH.

[nicksaviking]

I'm a pretty sentimental guy when it comes to the Twins.  Personally I like seeing Blyleven, Morris, Laudner and Smalley on TV even if they may not be the best at their jobs, they remind me of the past and I like catching up with my memories.  Simiarly, I personally liked seeing Hunter again (minus his political views) as did I Kubel, Bartlet and Guerrier last year.

 

However, if the Twins were smart about this, they would stay a million miles away from these on field reunions, they are bad baseball business.  These guys keep coming here on minor league or short term deals, but these are the contracts and the roster spots that a team thinking about the future would use on players that may bring back value if the season hits the bricks.  These are almost always where you find the buy low/sell high contracts fans and GMs wish they had come this time of year. 

 

You can't trade sentimentality, it is always going to have more value to the selling team.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Jeez, not much love for a guy that's 2nd on the team in both HR's and RBI's, 4th in SLG% and 5th in OPS

Not sure how valuable that is, on a team that's below league average in all of those categories.  Ryan Doumit had comparable ranks in his Twins seasons.

[Mike Sixel]

Maybe that's where we really differ.......I don't root for individuals in team sports, I root for the team. therefore, I want either the best ST player, or the player with the most long term upside on the team. I really don't care about all that other fluffy stuff ....... putting a person on a pedestal because they play sports isn't for me.

[John Kelsey]

Please Jeebus no. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

He has declined in BA, OBP, SLG%, OPS, OPS+ and wRC+ from last year to this.

 

His BA and OBP, since the calendar hit July is under .200 and .250 respectively. His slashline since the break is .209/.260/.403.  From a corner OF. He's fallen off the cliff.

So you're using either a month's worth or six weeks worth of at bats to declare him dead? Well he's OPSing over 1.100 the past seven days! Resurrected, by Jesus.  Since, the break his BABIP has fallen by .65 points, while his walk rate and slugging percentage have remained about the same as the first half.  (Source)  So that cliff looks more BABIP related than ability related.

 

We may be witnessing the inevitable decline, and we'll have more than 100 at bats to assess that at the season's end.  The Twins should not consider resigning Hunter until the offseason.

[USAFChief]

 

Yeah, except that isn't anywhere near the only alternative.

 

And the idea about Hunter being the key ingredient to Rosario and Hicks doing well this year, that's speculation at the very best.  Maybe they Rays pulled out 30 more wins in 2008 (in comparison to 2007) because they dropped the word Devil from their name?

 

Another thing about giving Hunter all the credit, it takes away credit to like the 30 million other people who have had a hand in their development, along with taking credit away from the players themselves.

Nobody, that I've seen anyway, has ever said Hunter was the "key ingredient" to Rosario and Hicks doing well this year.  Including, by the way, the post you responded to.

 

What many people, including the players themselves have said, is that Hunter has helped them.  Played a role.  Offered up an example.  Not THE example.  Not the ONLY reason.   But A reason.  AN example.  It's not uhusual in other walks of life for people to sometimes respond to that.  Follow leadership, and benefit from it.  I can't think of any logical reason professional baseball would be imune to that effect.

 

  

 

I don't know why that's so hard to believe, unless one had an unfavorable opinion of Hunter before the season played out and is looking for reasons to validate that.

 

All that said, it would be best, I think, if he and the Twins moved on in 2016.  

 

 

[jimmer]

 

So you're using either a month's worth or six weeks worth of at bats to declare him dead? Well he's OPSing over 1.100 the past seven days! Resurrected, by Jesus.  Since, the break his BABIP has fallen by .65 points, while his walk rate and slugging percentage have remained about the same as the first half.  (Source)  So that cliff looks more BABIP related than ability related.

 

We may be witnessing the inevitable decline, and we'll have more than 100 at bats to assess that at the season's end.  The Twins should not consider resigning Hunter until the offseason.

I didn't just use that, I also compared his stats from last year to this year.  Did I not?  All show he's declining.  All of them. We can take a look if we think it's unfair to compare the whole of 2014 slashlines to only 4 months of slashline. Somehow, I don't think that will help the argument he hasn't seen a decent decline.

[PseudoSABR]

Just curious, does Twins Daily group think really dismiss organizational values such as leadership and loyalty completely out of hand?  Of course, there's a point where such values have diminishing returns, but are we so obviously beyond that threshold with Hunter?  (I feel the need to note that baseball players are  not statistical output machines, they are people who require something more than fuel to maximize their abilities).

[jimmer]

 

Nobody, that I've seen anyway, has ever said Hunter was the "key ingredient" to Rosario and Hicks doing well this year.  Including, by the way, the post you responded to.

 

What many people, including the players themselves have said, is that Hunter has helped them.  Played a role.  Offered up an example.  Not THE example.  Not the ONLY reason.   But A reason.  AN example.  It's not uhusual in other walks of life for people to sometimes respond to that.  Follow leadership, and benefit from it.  I can't think of any logical reason professional baseball would be imune to that effect.

 

  

 

I don't know why that's so hard to believe, unless one had an unfavorable opinion of Hunter before the season played out and is looking for reasons to validate that.

 

All that said, it would be best, I think, if he and the Twins moved on in 2016.  

All of this is fair, and I DID misread the post I responded to.  Apologies.

[jimmer]

 

Just curious, does Twins Daily group think really dismiss organizational values such as leadership and loyalty completely out of hand?  Of course, there's a point where such values have diminishing returns, but are so obviously beyond that threshold with Hunter?  (I feel the need to note that baseball players are  not statistical output machines, they are people who require something more than fuel to maximize their abilities).

I can't speak for anyone else, but I guess I'd need to wonder how much a player's years of professional growth and hard work, along with years of coaching and mentorship from players at all levels, had an effect and try and weigh it against a few months of mentorship from one guy. All mentorship matters, no doubt. Saying Hunter's % is enough to keep putting him on a 25 man contract is the issue some of us take. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

I didn't just use that, I also compared his stats from last year to this year.  Did I not?  All show he's declining.  All of them. We can take a look if we think it's unfair to compare the whole of 2014 slashlines to only 4 months of slashline. Somehow, I don't think that will help the argument he hasn't seen a decent decline.

Whatever decline the "slash line" might show is BABIP related. His, first half BABIP declined by .50 points from 2014, and his second half by more than .100 points.  Again, the slugging and walk rate are right at his previous levels of production.   I swore I mentioned BABIP in my previous post...