Twins Franchise Four

[Seth Stohs]

Before tonight's All Star game, the results of the Franchise Four voting was announced for each team. It was based on voting by fans.

 

Here are the Twins Franchise Four:

 

• Tony Oliva
• Kirby Puckett
• Harmon Killebrew
• Rod Carew

[Thrylos]

Superficially, might seem hard to argue with that, other that the fact that Carew got really bitter with the Twins' franchise and self identified as an Angel later in his career.  Still has a TC hall of fame plaque.

 

BUT

 

There is no way that the Franchise Four in the Twins' franchise should not start with maybe the best guy who ever pitched in this sport, Walter Johnson.   And the fact that Twins' fans do not realize that Walter Johnson (and 15 other Hall of Famers who never wore a Twins' uniform) were part of the Twins' franchise, is pretty despicable and reflects horribly on the current management and ownership.

[brvama]

Thrylos, spot on! And that's why Walter was my first pick. Unfortunately nowadays history is limited to ones own lifetime.

[spinowner]

Totally agree, but that should have been specifically spelled out before the votes were cast. So add Walter Johnson, obviously, because he is the best pitcher ever. Then whom to delete? Not Harmon. Kirby is my favorite baseball player ever, so I can't take him off. I'd have to leave Tony O. on and take Carew off. Tough decision.

[ashbury]

MLB needs to grab a franchise by the lapels and say "you have the old Senators heritage, got it?" I don't care if it's the Twins, the Nationals, or even conceivably the Rangers (Senators II). Make it the Tampa Bay Rays, for all I care. Just don't let important history slip through the cracks, OK? I'll give them a pass for the Troy Haymakers or the Worcesters. But starting 1901, history is history, and the AL was established and remained stable. Someone take the old Senators.

[Craig Arko]

MLB needs to grab a franchise by the lapels and say "you have the old Senators heritage, got it?" I don't care if it's the Twins, the Nationals, or even conceivably the Rangers (Senators II). Make it the Tampa Bay Rays, for all I care. Just don't let important history slip through the cracks, OK?

The Havana Senators. You can put it on the board.

[nicksaviking]

A fan vote that nailed it? Wow.

 

I'd love for the team to embrace the Senator history, this was a charter member of the AL. It seems any time there is any kind of push to do so, the Rangers stand up and object. Legally I think the Rangers have their rights, just like the new Cleveland Browns were granted the rights to the old Browns, not the Ravens.

 

But if I ever heard a someone try to claim Harmon Killebrewplayed for the Rangers franchise, we're going to have a problem.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Troy Haymakers 

 

George Zettlein

Lip Pike

Count Gedney

Jimmy Wood

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Carew is deserved, but I'd bump him in favor of a pitcher, if only there was a pitcher that towered above the others. Kaat, maybe. Walter Johnson if that's your thing. Lot's of people will say Blyleven but his tireless, multi year, self promotion campaign to get himself in the Hall didn't really do me any favors. I would also accept Tom Kelly on there. 

[Pius Jefferson]

If Walter Johnson is eligible and he was than there's zero excuses not to have him on the list.

 

Not to sound callous but I'd rather baseball do something involving only living players. Call it "Living Legends' or 'Living Greats' for each franchise. 

 

 

 

 

[stringer bell]

Walter Johnson sure. I'd probably take Carew off because he split his career with Minnesota and the Angels, although his best years were with the Twins. I don't get as hung up with not honoring the Senators, although the seeds of the Twins came from Washington Senators.

[h2oface]

I too was disappointed in the Twins' fan base for not Including Walter Johnson. I guess many under 40 are not into the history of the game very much. I really thought our fan base was more aware than the final vote. I had Harmon as my #1, Big Train as my #2, Puckett #3, Carew #4, and Tony Oliva didn't make the cut. 

 

I was also very surprised that Johnny Bench was in the top 4 of "The Greatest Living Players Franchise Four". I didn't even see where I could have voted for that! No Nolan Ryan? Seriously? Ryan got a nod from three teams he played for - Angels, Astros, and Rangers - and is the living and the all time strikeout (5714 to second place Randy Johnson's 4875!) and no-hitter (7 to second place Koufax's 4) record setter, dead or alive. Nolan Ryan should have been one of the 4.

[ashbury]

George Zettlein

Lip Pike

Count Gedney

Jimmy Wood

Oh, how quickly they forget Steve King.

 

WAR of 1.1 in 1871. Which is not so easy to accomplish in 29 games.

 

Or John McMullin. "Lefty". Gave up a league leading 430 hits. Which is not so easy to accomplish in 29 games.

[David HK]

Let's add one more, and make it five, just for the day-  How about that DOZIER!!!!  Dead center home run in the ASG-  good on ya, young man!

[DuluthFan]

I never saw the ballot, but if it was a write in vote, then those four are the legitimate TWINS franchise four. As a regular Twins fan those would be the names that would come to mind. Sure Walter Johnson could be on the list but he was known as a Senator and wouldn't come to mind for the average fan, maybe for a baseball historian, but not a common fan.

[nicksaviking]

Oh barf, after watching another awful preview for what looks like another awful Fantastic Four movie I get it now. I think it's fair to assume this "Franchise Four" is some kind of cheap promo tie-in?

[DaveW]

Meh. This is just a random fan poll in a random all star year, no need to get all upset about it. When I think "Twins" I think of there time in Minnesota, I doubt most "Twins fans" when they moved to Minnesota were Senators fans anyways. Walter Johnson was a senator, not a Twin. Shawn Kemp was a Supersonic, not a Thunder player etc

 

At the end of the day Johnson is in the HOF, it's not like he is getting forgotten suddenly. Also to an earlier post, Carew never had an issue with Twins fans or the team, he had an issue with the owner

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Oh, how quickly they forget Steve King.

 

WAR of 1.1 in 1871. Which is not so easy to accomplish in 29 games.

 

Or John McMullin. "Lefty". Gave up a league leading 430 hits. Which is not so easy to accomplish in 29 games.

 

I will give you McMullin since 28 of his 29 starts were complete games. But no way Steve King. 

[h2oface]

 

I never saw the ballot, but if it was a write in vote, then those four are the legitimate TWINS franchise four. As a regular Twins fan those would be the names that would come to mind. Sure Walter Johnson could be on the list but he was known as a Senator and wouldn't come to mind for the average fan, maybe for a baseball historian, but not a common fan.

 

I guess I look at it as I am still me if I move from South Dakota to Canada to Virginia to California, and my family is still my family. Walter Johnson is part of this franchise, very definitely, and I didn't see him play either, and was even born 9 years after he was dead. I just figured Twins' fans were more than regular/average fans. I like to think of them as astute, and that is why it surprises me that 70 of the 124 years of franchise history is not embraced. To me, it is like ignoring ones family and roots. 

[DaveW]

The senators are not the twins! The twins haven't retired Walter Johnsons number because he wa never a Twin. If they haven't put him in the Twins HOF or retired his number, why on earth would you want/expect fans to vote him in, or get upset when he wasn't voted in? Also you dont hear Twins fans talking about their 3 World Series titles(1 washington) you hear them talking about their two World Series titles (87 and 91)

 

Walter Johnson was a Washington Senator, not a Minnesota twin!

[stringer bell]

The fan vote has an obvious bias toward the more modern players. That is understandable. My experience starts with the first year of the Minnesota Twins. I was six when the Twins moved to Minnesota, about the age when you keep the memories. Except for the titans of the game, I would guess most teams voted for players from the "color TV era".

[h2oface]

 

The senators are not the twins! The twins haven't retired Walter Johnsons number because he wa never a Twin. If they haven't put him in the Twins HOF or retired his number, why on earth would you want/expect fans to vote him in, or get upset when he wasn't voted in? Also you dont hear Twins fans talking about their 3 World Series titles(1 washington) you hear them talking about their two World Series titles (87 and 91)

Walter Johnson was a Washington Senator, not a Minnesota twin!

 

So, if a daughter named Forget-Me-Not is born in a family that is named Washington Senators grows up and gets married to a man from the Minnesota Twins family and changes her name to Forget-Me-Not Minnesota Twins and moves to Minnesota with her husband......... would she no longer be part of her Washington Senators family and just part of the Minesota Twins family forever more? Or would Forget-Me-Not Minnesota Twins still embrace her history, even though her named was changed and she just moved to a different town?

[Shane Wahl]

Am I going to be that guy who says that he would put Mauer instead of Oliva . . .

[Tuba]

According to wikipedia the twins retain the records and history to the Washington Senators (1901–60). 

 

Doesn't that feel kind of weird? After all walter johnson played for Washington fans, not Minnesotans. Maybe package the history and records in a deal for wilson ramos. 

[Dantes929]

What's the point of all this?     They could have said franchise 14 or 40 for all I care.   Four is very arbitrary and at the end of the day who cares?    I am not offended they left off Walter any more than leaving off Punto and I love baseball history.

[mngoldy]

 

The senators are not the twins! The twins haven't retired Walter Johnsons number because he wa never a Twin. If they haven't put him in the Twins HOF or retired his number, why on earth would you want/expect fans to vote him in, or get upset when he wasn't voted in? Also you dont hear Twins fans talking about their 3 World Series titles(1 washington) you hear them talking about their two World Series titles (87 and 91)

Walter Johnson was a Washington Senator, not a Minnesota twin!

Well in sports when teams move stats, records, and everything goes with them. That's why LA Lakers get to claim George Mikan. Also making a very strong stance about retiring numbers without any knowledge of baseball history. Walter Johnson number can't be retired. He didn't have a number. Teams didn't have numbers until the late 20s. Yes that means Ty Cobb, King Kelly, Cy Young, and Sandy Cummings didn't have numbers and their numbers aren't retired either. So you're not confused those 4 names are baseball players. 2 of them are pitchers, and the other 2 are outfielders. They all played before 1961 where your baseball knowledge clearly ends. 

[Craig Arko]

Would Walter Johnson ever have had cause to even set foot in Minnesota?

[spinowner]

 

Well in sports when teams move stats, records, and everything goes with them. That's why LA Lakers get to claim George Mikan. Also making a very strong stance about retiring numbers without any knowledge of baseball history. Walter Johnson number can't be retired. He didn't have a number. Teams didn't have numbers until the late 20s. Yes that means Ty Cobb, King Kelly, Cy Young, and Sandy Cummings didn't have numbers and their numbers aren't retired either. So you're not confused those 4 names are baseball players. 2 of them are pitchers, and the other 2 are outfielders. They all played before 1961 where your baseball knowledge clearly ends. 

I went to a game at the dome in about 2000, maybe 2001 in which the Twins and the Athletics wore throwback unis, I think from around 1915. I remember thinking that to be truly authentic there would have been no numbers on the players' jerseys. And the other thing I thought of is that Art Howe should have worn a suit and hat just like Connie Mack always did. Now THAT would have been authentic, and cool to boot!

[LimestoneBaggy]

I'm 35, been a Twins fan since 87...never heard of Walter Johnson until today. Did some research.....holy crap!

 

Thanks for the education guys

[big dog]

If it had been a vote for the Senators/Twins franchise four, Johnson should have made it. Lack of clarity in the vote definition.