Time to make some moves!

[SwainZag]

As much as I love Tulo.......

He is owed a TON of money (Not counting this year, $94M over 5 years, with a 15M TO tacked on to the end)  He likes to get injured.  He has played one season in the last 5 where he has played more than 130 games.  While he has put up big numbers....here are his numbers away from Colorado in his career: .275/.347/.470.  

 

None of that takes into consideration what it would even take to get a guy like Tulo, he would not be cheap prospect wise.  I'm not even sure what a starting point would be.

[twinsnorth49]

 

I just don't want to see them trade away anything valuable because of the fluky success they're having.  We can agree on that much, can't we?

Absolutely, but making moves doesn't necessarily mean trades. I think most people are just advocating promotions within the system like we just saw with Vargas. Next step is to get rid of the one too many pitchers we have and some of the more awful ones replaced.

 

I will say it's awfully hard to see this club not making a trade at some point in the near future with so many guys profiling so similar. I just don't see Arcia, Vargas, Pinto and Sano all fitting on the roster together. Sano will be here, Vargas is here but has to prove he can stay and the other two need to do something to show they are a better option. The only thing Pinto has going for him is he is a catcher, just not a very good one.

 

I agree it's too soon to make any of those decisions right now.

 

 

[SwainZag]

 

Absolutely, but making moves doesn't necessarily mean trades. I think most people are just advocating promotions within the system like we just saw with Vargas. Next step is to get rid of the one too many pitchers we have and some of the more awful ones replaced.

 

I will say it's awfully hard to see this club not making a trade at some point in the near future with so many guys profiling so similar. I just don't see Arcia, Vargas, Pinto and Sano all fitting on the roster together. Sano will be here, Vargas is here but has to prove he can stay and the other two need to do something to show they are a better option. The only thing Pinto has going for him is he is a catcher, just not a very good one.

 

I agree it's too soon to make any of those decisions right now.

It is too soon, especially considering out of the 4 you mentioned, the only one that has high value right now is Sano.  At this point you would be selling low on any of Arcia, Vargas or Pinto.  The problem is, when the time is right to trade them, they very well could be producing on a contending team.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Absolutely, but making moves doesn't necessarily mean trades. I think most people are just advocating promotions within the system like we just saw with Vargas. Next step is to get rid of the one too many pitchers we have and some of the more awful ones replaced.

 

I will say it's awfully hard to see this club not making a trade at some point in the near future with so many guys profiling so similar. I just don't see Arcia, Vargas, Pinto and Sano all fitting on the roster together. Sano will be here, Vargas is here but has to prove he can stay and the other two need to do something to show they are a better option. The only thing Pinto has going for him is he is a catcher, just not a very good one.

 

I agree it's too soon to make any of those decisions right now.

 

this is another reason to trade some prospects sooner rather than later. Or, just realize that you aren't going to get ANY value out of the ones that don't work. MOST prospects do nothing at the MLB level, yet people hoard them, even when their payroll is low, because they might be good and they are cheap. If you wait to see which ones are good, you can't exactly deal the rest of them.

[twinsnorth49]

 

this is another reason to trade some prospects sooner rather than later. Or, just realize that you aren't going to get ANY value out of the ones that don't work. MOST prospects do nothing at the MLB level, yet people hoard them, even when their payroll is low, because they might be good and they are cheap. If you wait to see which ones are good, you can't exactly deal the rest of them.

Well I agree, I'd just like to see if some value might come up on guys like Arcia and Pinto, it can't go much lower.

[Linus]

 

this is another reason to trade some prospects sooner rather than later. Or, just realize that you aren't going to get ANY value out of the ones that don't work. MOST prospects do nothing at the MLB level, yet people hoard them, even when their payroll is low, because they might be good and they are cheap. If you wait to see which ones are good, you can't exactly deal the rest of them.

Yes and if you deal the ones that are good and hang onto the ones that aren't, then you suck.  The reason you hoard prospects is because the attrition rate is so high.  If you can throw enough against the wall, something will stick.

 

I do agree with moving prospects where you have a position of strength.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Well I agree, I'd just like to see if some value might come up on guys like Arcia and Pinto, it can't go much lower.

 

Agreed, I was talking in general. Pinto and Arcia have almost no value right now, unless some other team thinks either can defend........

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yes and if you deal the ones that are good and hang onto the ones that aren't, then you suck.  The reason you hoard prospects is because the attrition rate is so high.  If you can throw enough against the wall, something will stick.

 

I do agree with moving prospects where you have a position of strength.

 

Isn't that why the FO types get paid, to do that? But like I said, if that's the plan, which is fine, then people shouldn't complain when they don't get value for the bad ones (oh, and the team needs to be willing to move on from their mistakes......).

[SwainZag]

The problem is most prospects aren't worth much by themselves, in fact few are. 

[Vanimal46]

In order to increase the value on Arcia, and Pinto do they need to find a way to make it back up to the MLB club? Or is it simply they need to start raking in at AAA and others will notice? I agree the Twins eventually need to make some trades as they all profile as the same type of player.

[nicksaviking]

 

I just don't want to see them trade away anything valuable because of the fluky success they're having.  We can agree on that much, can't we?

 

Sure, but can you find room in your lineup for Buxton, Rosario, Arcia, Harrison, Kepler, Hicks, Vargas, Sano, Pinto, Plouffe, Dozier, Santana, Escobar and Polanco?  Might have to run that 14 man linup past the commissioner's office, and there's a $170 million light hitting 1B who has to be accounted for as well.

 

You just can't keep them all, and you'll never be able to evaluate them all either.  Some need to be moved or they'll just waste away.

[SwainZag]

 

In order to increase the value on Arcia, and Pinto do they need to find a way to make it back up to the MLB club? Or is it simply they need to start raking in at AAA and others will notice? I agree the Twins eventually need to make some trades as they all profile as the same type of player.

 

And if Arcia comes up and starts hitting HR from the left hand side and playing like he did in September of last year, do you still want to trade him?

[jimmer]

 

And if Arcia comes up and starts hitting HR from the left hand side and playing like he did in September of last year, do you still want to trade him?

Arcia or Vargas will likely be our DH of the future, whether that's 2017, or 2018.  The other likely won't be on the team, or shouldn't be.

[SwainZag]

 

Sure, but can you find room in your lineup for Buxton, Rosario, Arcia, Harrison, Kepler, Hicks, Vargas, Sano, Pinto, Plouffe, Dozier, Santana, Escobar and Polanco?  Might have to run that 14 man linup past the commissioner's office, and there's a $170 million light hitting 1B who has to be accounted for as well.

 

You just can't keep them all, and you'll never be able to evaluate them all either.  Some need to be moved or they'll just waste away.

 

So how do you pick and choose?  There needs to be a market for the players.  Do you package let's say....Vargas, Kepler and Polanco if the return is a slightly above average corner OF bat?  How about a middle of the road starter?  An upgrade at SS and an above average reliever?  

 

The great thing about having such a talented system is any one of of the teams Top 15-20 prospects could very well be productive major league players.  I would say very few systems could look at prospects that deep in their system and say that.

 

I also think every player will get a chance to show he belongs.  If a guy like Kepler gets moved up to AAA and throws up a .325/.410/.550 slash line, his value is going to go up.  

[SwainZag]

 

Arcia or Vargas will likely be our DH of the future, whether that's 2017, or 2018.  The other likely won't be on the team, or shouldn't be.

 

If that's the case, I hope they both rake and the team can take the benefit of selling one of them high rather than giving one away because in the future we might not have room for one.

[Cap'n Piranha]

You think a guy with a 2.67 ERA, a 1.19 WHIP, 11.3 k/9, and a 2.7 bb/9 wouldn't be better than Stauffer (6.6 ERA, 2.07 WHIP, 3.6 k/9, and 4.2 bb/9) or Duensing (9.53 ERA, 2.12 WHIP, 4 k/9, and 5.6 bb/9)?  How big do you think the gap is between AAA and MLB?  Admittedly, it's big, but the difference would have to be the Grand freakin' Canyon for Oliveros to be as bad as Stauffer or Duensing.

 

I'd agree that Oliveros is going to have a learning curve and won't likely be better than Stuaffer or Duensing, but he does have some upside, more so than them right now.  I'd rather see him and Tonkin fill those roles with some hope of promise.

 

[Mike Sixel]

It is hard to believe that anyone thinks there aren't better options than Duensing and Stauffer right now.....including and sadly, the FO.

[BoomBoom]

 

For the same reason that Vargas had to get sent back down now. And Polanco is worse than Santana on D, and it would get exposed that much more in the bigs.

 

Vargas did ok last year and when he got exposed this year they shipped him back down.  Correct.  He's back in the Bigs though after a short short time back in AAA.  As was said by someone else - Colabello struggled and had to go elsewhere to figure it out because no one was willing to work through the growing pains of the MLB with him.  Prospects do sometimes learn to improve, just not always at our (fans) impatient pace.

[Siehbiscuit]

Haven't we been here before with talented guys before? we dumped David Ortiz, traded a talented Carlos Gomez and numerous others at low values. Sometimes talent takes time to mature. Left handed greatness in pitching or hitting is very hard to find. The fact that Arcia has the capability to be a star like Ortiz and Gomez shouldn't be something we throw away so easily. He's a terrible fielder and at best we can hope he becomes serviceable in the OF. BUT could you imagine the agony of tossing him aside because you prefer Hicks or Rosario's solely because you prefer their defense. Arcia may never blossom like we thought he would and become the .300/.375/.550 star we thought he'd be, but the fact that he is the ONLY LH batter in the organization with the chance to be that is worth being patient for.

[nicksaviking]

 

So how do you pick and choose?  There needs to be a market for the players.  

 

Well the front office has to pick and choose.  I'd hope the many years of developing these guys would give them a leg up on the evaluation process as opposed to the other franchises.  It seems pretty easy, the club places a value on these guys based on what they think they can do at the MLB level, keeps their list a secret, then asks other teams which prospects they are interested in.

 

Other than playing musical chairs with these guys and not letting them get consistant at bats, what other option is there?

[SwainZag]

 

Well the front office has to pick and choose.  I'd hope the many years of developing these guys would give them a leg up on the evaluation process as opposed to the other franchises.  It seems pretty easy, the club places a value on these guys based on what they think they can do at the MLB level, keeps their list a secret, then asks other teams which prospects they are interested in.

 

Other than playing musical chairs with these guys and not letting them get consistant at bats, what other option is there?

 

Well that's very understandable and they should have a list and I am sure they do, but scouting players for the future is still very hit or miss. 

 

Which guys are they playing musical chairs with and not letting get consistent AB's?

[Vanimal46]

And if Arcia comes up and starts hitting HR from the left hand side and playing like he did in September of last year, do you still want to trade him?

If he can get the bat figured out I'd like to keep him & Vargas as a DH platoon. Pinto seems to be the one with no oportunity for advancement in the organization.

[SwainZag]

 

If he can get the bat figured out I'd like to keep him & Vargas as a DH platoon. Pinto seems to be the one with no oportunity for advancement in the organization.

 

That's probably true.  I would like to hear how he's doing behind the plate this year.  If he can catch at least somewhat decently, woudln't he be a better as a bench bat and backup C than a guy like Hermann?  If and when they decide he isn't going to be a catcher is when his future becomes nearly nil.

[stringer bell]

Two positions that I would like to see the Twins upgrade (probably from outside the organization) are LH relief pitcher and catcher.  There are always bullpen arms available at the trade deadline every year and the cost wouldn't be too high.  I would like to see the Twins make a run at a top-tier catcher (Lucroy for instance) as long as they don't have to part with one of their top five prospects.

[h2oface]

 

As much as I love Tulo.......  He likes to get injured.  

 

Yup. Tulo likes to get injured. Maybe he even dreams about it. 

[lightfoot789]

 

 

AA Southern League
15 Home Runs  (1st in league & all of Minors)
13 Doubles
02 Triples
30 XBH  (1st in league)
46 RBI  (1st in league & all of AA)
39 Runs Scored  (2nd in league & 3rd in all of AA)
114 TB  (1st in league & all of AA)
77 SO (1st in league & all of AA)
.573  SLG%  (2nd in league)
.891OPS%  (4th in league)

.402 w/OBA (INCREDIBLE)

 

We took a chance on Vargas last year.

 

 

[spinowner]

 

Two positions that I would like to see the Twins upgrade (probably from outside the organization) are LH relief pitcher and catcher.  There are always bullpen arms available at the trade deadline every year and the cost wouldn't be too high.  I would like to see the Twins make a run at a top-tier catcher (Lucroy for instance) as long as they don't have to part with one of their top five prospects.

I doubt the Brewers would part with Lucroy if the Twins didn't give up one of their top 5 prospects.

[stringer bell]

 

I doubt the Brewers would part with Lucroy if the Twins didn't give up one of their top 5 prospects.

I just looked at a prospect list--it counted the Top 5 as Buxton, Sano, Berrios, Meyer, and Stewart.  That would leave some pretty good arms and intriguing hitting prospects available, including Gordon, Kepler, Walker and Polanco. Gonsalves and Hu (starters) and Reed, Burdi and Jones among the relief pitchers.  Lucroy is 29 in a week and is under contract for essentially two more years.  I would think one starter, one reliever and a bat for Lucroy was more than fair.

[akmanak]

Apparently the sky is falling already. Not sure why many believed that this team would compete and now since we are in contention in June drastic changes must be made to this team? Give me a break. This team will be at .500 or slightly below that at the end of the year and they will contend in 2016 which has been said for the last 3 years. So many signs have pointed to this and I was surprised that so many people on here thought this team was going to the playoffs after May. Have you watched this team for the last 4 years?

[nicksaviking]

Well that's very understandable and they should have a list and I am sure they do, but scouting players for the future is still very hit or miss.

 

Which guys are they playing musical chairs with and not letting get consistent AB's?

Basically the whole Lookout squad. How can the Twins possibly give Kepler, Harrison, Buxton, Sano, Polanco, Santana, Pinto, Vargas, Rosario, Arcia and Hicks all 450-500 consistant MLB at bats to evaluate them all? And those are just the higher valued prospects only a year or so away. Most teams would welcome the chance to give Daniel Ortiz, James Beresford or Dalton Hicks a fair look. Those guys will get lucky to even get a token September call up.

 

Something has to give, don't let these guys go to waste.