Nolasco Needs to go, what will it take.

[KScott]

*Original Post:Nolasco needs to leave MN. There are too many pitchers looking too good, to be held down by someone playing so horribly.
 

What would it realistically take to trade him out? Paying 80-90% of contract, other players? What do you think it will take to have another team take him off of our hands?

 

Edits to make things clearer:

 

Nolasco has been a disaster after since he arrived with the Twins. Whether it is bad luck or we made a mistake in signing a player that doesn't have the talent we thought, it doesn't matter, Nolasco has been bad in his time here.

 

 I want to see Nolasco off of the Minnesota Twins roster. There are players like Berrios, Hu, Gonsalves, Batts, Dean, Bauxendale, etc through out the Twins farm system that need to be bumped up to the next level for a bigger challenge and progress. 
 

  However, the rosters all the way down are over loaded with players that are at the correct level or too low. So, in order to bump someone from A+ to AA we need to bump someone from AA to AAA and AAA to majors.
 

That is why Nolasco has to leave, so we have the room and ability to move guys up to the level where they need to be to continue growing. But with Nolasco's contract and poor numbers I see it being near impossible (but not 100%) to trade him. So I want to know what people think it would take to have another team take Nolasco off our hands for us?

--A demotion does nothing because it would do nothing to relieve the log jam.

[Craig Arko]

Um, what?

[curt1965]

Didn't he get 5 wins in May?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I dunno, looks like he's pitched fine*, poor fielding behind him, and he got hurt today. He's pitched pretty well. There are other candidates on the pitching staff that need to go, but not Ricky. He's had a descent season so far.

*Looking at FIP and BABIP

[mickeymental]

what will it take? completion of the 2017 season.

[KScott]

In those 5 games in May, Nolasco pitched with an era just below 4 (3.76). In those games he lasted: 5.0, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, and 7.2 innings. With the exceptions of the last he put a fairly large toll on the bullpen.

In each of those wins the Twins have scored 5 or more runs.

 

Am I saying he is the worst ever, no. I am saying he is not playing to the contract he is being payed for. He has either performed worse than all other MN starters, or has less upside. (I could see an argument for Hughes, but given last year I have  much more leeway for him.)

 

He is also blocking the development of players lower than him.

[Craig Arko]

Now Stauffer, on the other hand...

[nicksaviking]

It will probably take an injury to get him off the 25-man roster. Seeing as that looks to have happened, prior to the original post even, it would seem like this topic should be tabled once again.

[diehardtwinsfan]

well, I see another 15 day stint in his future and a 2-3 start tryout for Milone. 

[KScott]

 

It will probably take an injury to get him off the 25-man roster. Seeing as that looks to have happened, prior to the original post even, it would seem like this topic should be tabled once again.

 

The injury is what prompted the post. He would be off the 25 man temporarily until he returns from DL.

 

Then someone will be sent back down to AAA while we wait to see how he does after his most recent injury. The second time this year, and I am having troubles finding out how many times he hit the DL  last year.

[brvama]

*Original Post:.....

 

 I want to see Nolasco off of the Minnesota Twins roster. There are players like Berries, Hu, Gonsalves, Batts, Dean, Bauxendale, etc through out the Twins farm system that need to be bumped up to the next level for a bigger challenge and progress. 

 

  However, the rosters all the way down are over loaded with players that are at the correct level or too low. So, in order to bump someone from A+ to AA we need to bump someone from AA to AAA and AAA to majors.

 

That is why Nolasco has to leave, so we have the room and ability to move guys up to the level where they need to be to continue growing. But with Nolasco's contract and poor numbers I see it being near impossible (but not 100%) to trade him. So I want to know what people think it would take to have another team take Nolasco off our hands for us?

--A demotion does nothing because it would do nothing to relieve the log jam.

IMO this is one of the weakest reasons for getting rid of a player who is NOT hurting the club. Those players in the minors will get their chance and all can continue to learn and hone their craft where they're playing now. The time will come and it might be thru a trade or release of minor league players or the inevitable injury.

[blairpaul715]

Ricky is just fine for now, why the hurry to get rid of him??? Who is going to do better at the MLB level right now???? Milone, maybe.......Meyer, NO........Berrios , most likely not YET, WHO??????? Dean IMO isnt even replacement level type player, I think he was available for Rule 5 wasnt taken, Baxendale will never see MLB.......Batts has already been moved up........if we have a predicament with pitching depth, be happy.

[DaveW]

If you can find someone who will pick up 75% of his remaining salary I think you make that trade in a heartbeat. However that is extremely unlikely, so you keep rolling with him. He isn't as terrible as some people make him out to be, and he is a legit starting pitcher, he is just more a #5 then the #2/#3 we thought when they gave him 50 million.

[DaveW]

Didn't he get 5 wins in May?

Didn't every Twins starter get 5 wins in may pretty much?

[Twodogs]

 

*Original Post:Nolasco needs to leave MN. There are too many pitchers looking too good, to be held down by someone playing so horribly.
 

What would it realistically take to trade him out? Paying 80-90% of contract, other players? What do you think it will take to have another team take him off of our hands?

 

Edits to make things clearer:

 

Nolasco has been a disaster after since he arrived with the Twins. Whether it is bad luck or we made a mistake in signing a player that doesn't have the talent we thought, it doesn't matter, Nolasco has been bad in his time here.

 

 I want to see Nolasco off of the Minnesota Twins roster. There are players like Berrios, Hu, Gonsalves, Batts, Dean, Bauxendale, etc through out the Twins farm system that need to be bumped up to the next level for a bigger challenge and progress. 
 

  However, the rosters all the way down are over loaded with players that are at the correct level or too low. So, in order to bump someone from A+ to AA we need to bump someone from AA to AAA and AAA to majors.
 

That is why Nolasco has to leave, so we have the room and ability to move guys up to the level where they need to be to continue growing. But with Nolasco's contract and poor numbers I see it being near impossible (but not 100%) to trade him. So I want to know what people think it would take to have another team take Nolasco off our hands for us?

--A demotion does nothing because it would do nothing to relieve the log jam.

Sooooo.  Let me get this straight, you want to pay 90 percent of his 50 million so that he can go and play for another team, then you want to rush some youngster up here so that he can get his clock started early and even if that kid turns out to be ok, it wont be for 2 - 3 years, that seems to be the norm for starting pitchers without dynamic stuff, (98 -101) type of stuff.  So by the time the kids that you want up here start to get good then the Twins would need to be paying them big money too??  Doesn't make a lot of sense.  In his last 4 games, including yesterday, he has pitched 19.7 innings, with a 3.2 era a 1.42 whip, 21 K's and 4 walks.  Not too bad, oh and he had 3 wins in that span.  1.42 whip not the greatest but has proven to miss some bats so that helps that out.

[KScott]

Sooooo.  Let me get this straight, you want to pay 90 percent of his 50 million so that he can go and play for another team, then you want to rush some youngster up here so that he can get his clock started early and even if that kid turns out to be ok, it wont be for 2 - 3 years, that seems to be the norm for starting pitchers without dynamic stuff, (98 -101) type of stuff.  So by the time the kids that you want up here start to get good then the Twins would need to be paying them big money too??  Doesn't make a lot of sense.  In his last 4 games, including yesterday, he has pitched 19.7 innings, with a 3.2 era a 1.42 whip, 21 K's and 4 walks.  Not too bad, oh and he had 3 wins in that span.  1.42 whip not the greatest but has proven to miss some bats so that helps that out.

 

Close but not quite. Part of the post was of frustration. I am tired of Nolasco, and biased. He probably is the victim of bad luck, but between letting up a large number runs, and almost never making it deep into games, and seemingly bouncing back and forth from the DL or playing hurt. He bugs me.

 

The 90% was exaggeration to try to get people to talk.

 

Nor do I want to rush anyone up from the minors. Come July, there will be 7 viable MLB starters (Santana, Hughes, Gibson, May, Pelfrey, and Milone) If they all keep pitching at a decent level the twins should trade someone. What I would like to see is good-bye Nolasco, bump Milone up and allow a player (Berrios) to bump up from AA to AAA, and some one up to AA (Hu or Gonsalves)  etc.

 

The reason I want Nolasco gone from that group, is he is older and is payed more than anyone in that list not named Santana. (same age and is making 1.5 million less than Santana). He may have decent years ahead yet, but his best is past and he has only played 3 seasons with a sub 4.0 ERA, Santana has a better track record.

 

I want that money and roster spot open for a player that will contribute more to the team. 

 

Yes in his last 4 starts he has pitched to an ERA of 3.2. But the crux is he only pitched 19.7 innings. That's less than 5 per game as a starter. That's a quick way to burn out a bullpen. Yes he came out early in yesterday's game, however the games before that he went 7.2, 5.2,5.1.   In fact he has only completed the 6th inning once.

 

I understand that peripherals look good for him. But he just doesn't get the job done. He has been more of a liability or whirlpool filler than a quality starter for the Twins and it bugs me, therefore I want him gone.

 

I would love to see a trade packaging Nolasco, an OF prospect (Kepler, Walker, Arcia or one of the many others)  and cash, for a good catching prospect. 

[jimbo92107]

What a bad idea. Just when Nolasco is starting to show us why they're paying him a ton of money, the team should dump him and eat his salary? He suffered an ankle injury after about one inning, and he may be back fairly soon. Before that, he looked like his old self, peppering the zone with heat, then dropping his big hammer for strike three.

 

The Twins are playing really well right now. There's no need for sudden, drastic moves. Milone can fill until Nolasco gets back, and then I say keep surfing this wave.

[h2oface]

 

In those 5 games in May, Nolasco pitched with an era just below 4 (3.76). In those games he lasted: 5.0, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, and 7.2 innings. With the exceptions of the last he put a fairly large toll on the bullpen.

The thing that concerns me so much is that he makes every team a .324 hitting team and gives up so many hits. I think he is getting better, though. I like that ERA. Iike that each game he went deeper into the game. He has had some games with a devastating hook. Nolasco certainly has not gained any fans with his overall performance. It really is too bad.

[kab21]

Actually the 90% number (portion of his contract) is probably accurate.  The only other way to get rid of him and not pay the contract is to take back an equally awful and overpaid player (like Carl Crawford).

[Linus]

He's making too much money but payroll is not an issue for the Twins so let's just set that one aside.

 

If he is one of our five best starters (which he is when healthy) why would you want to get rid of him?  Especially when the team is winning?

[spinowner]

 

He's making too much money but payroll is not an issue for the Twins so let's just set that one aside.

 

If he is one of our five best starters (which he is when healthy) why would you want to get rid of him?  Especially when the team is winning?

Any trade is worth making if the other team wants to overpay.

[DaveW]

He's making too much money but payroll is not an issue for the Twins so let's just set that one aside.

 

If he is one of our five best starters (which he is when healthy) why would you want to get rid of him?  Especially when the team is winning?

That money could be spent much more effectively in other ways after this season such as:

A.) Signing a DH if Vagas doesn't work out

B.) Signing a SS if Santana doesn't work out

C.) Signing a shutdown 8th inning guy

D.) Signing a big bat corner OF

E.) Signing a pitcher not named Ricky Nolasco

 

If they could find a team willing to take 50% of the contract, you do the deal ASAP, if someone offers you a decent prospect in return while picking up 25-35% of the contract I think you do that deal ASAP as well.

 

The Twins likely would get equal or better production out of Milone, May, Pelfrey, Dean this year anyways, and in 2016/2017 they would get better production with Berrios and more.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Given Nolasco's upside, or lack thereof, a trade would be great. The Twins could put Milone in his place and get similar results. Next year, it opens the door for Berrios and Meyer.

 

With that said, it's not happening.

[DaveW]

 

Given Nolasco's upside, or lack thereof, a trade would be great. The Twins could put Milone in his place and get similar results. Next year, it opens the door for Berrios and Meyer.

 

With that said, it's not happening.

If Crawford can be moved, then Nolasco can as well. As Kab said, you often times will need to take back a bad contract as well. Are there any "bad" contracts out there we could take on to improve an area of weakness?

Old pal JJ Hardy looks to be out of favor in Balt and is owed 26 mil over 2016-2017, the problem there though is that his 14 mil 2018 option becomes guaranteed if he is traded.

Heck even if you don't take a bad contract back Nolasco is still only owed about 33 million through the end of 2017 (includes his pro rated contract this season and 1 million dollar buyout), I still wonder if the Twins ate 20 million of it if a team like the Dodgers or someone would be willing to bite.

[Brock Beauchamp]

In the case of Nolasco, I'd definitely consider eating contract money just to shove him out of town and clear room for Santana, Milone, and Berrios.

 

I highly doubt Terry Ryan agrees with my opinion.

[Linus]

 

Any trade is worth making if the other team wants to overpay.

Do you really think any team out there is going to overpay for Nolasco?

[Linus]

 

 

That money could be spent much more effectively in other ways after this season such as:

A.) Signing a DH if Vagas doesn't work out

B.) Signing a SS if Santana doesn't work out

C.) Signing a shutdown 8th inning guy

D.) Signing a big bat corner OF

E.) Signing a pitcher not named Ricky Nolasco

 

If they could find a team willing to take 50% of the contract, you do the deal ASAP, if someone offers you a decent prospect in return while picking up 25-35% of the contract I think you do that deal ASAP as well.

 

The Twins likely would get equal or better production out of Milone, May, Pelfrey, Dean this year anyways, and in 2016/2017 they would get better production with Berrios and more.

They can spend that money anyway.  Plus, you would have to take a bad contract back which negates the savings anyway.  I would rather have the pitcher.

[DaveW]

 

In the case of Nolasco, I'd definitely consider eating contract money just to shove him out of town and clear room for Santana, Milone, and Berrios.

 

I highly doubt Terry Ryan agrees with my opinion.

They seemed to be fine with doing that with Nishioka (put him in the minors and call it a sunk cost) obviously this is more money, I'm sure TR wouldn't have an issue with it, the Pohlads might be the ones who do, but then again, I'm sure the Pohlads like seeing people in the stands as well.

[Linus]

 

 

In the case of Nolasco, I'd definitely consider eating contract money just to shove him out of town and clear room for Santana, Milone, and Berrios.

 

I highly doubt Terry Ryan agrees with my opinion.

I think we are forgetting that we were last in pitching last year.  Chances are Nolasco is better than Milone and counting on Berrios for the rotation next year is iffy.  At that point we are one injury away from a Cole DeVries fill in situation.  Let's keep the pitching - its a long season.

[tobi0040]

 

They seemed to be fine with doing that with Nishioka (put him in the minors and call it a sunk cost) obviously this is more money, I'm sure TR wouldn't have an issue with it, the Pohlads might be the ones who do, but then again, I'm sure the Pohlads like seeing people in the stands as well.

 

Nishi had 3 years and $12M left on his deal.  At this point Ricky has 2.5 years and $35M.  

 

I don't really see the point of eating 80-90% of his salary to pitch somewhere else. I would rather put him in AAA and hope he re-kindles something from his past.  If he does, he may be one of our best five starters, especially if someone gets hurt which is inevitable.

 

He has looked decent as of late and if his injury really is his ankle that is better than his elbow.