Should Arcia have been pulled?

[DocBauer]

I suppose it's not surprising to state that one of my all time, absolutely favorite movies is Major League. I could just about quote the entire movie...(and often do, lol). I'm sure many of you could as well. My tag line comes from that movie. And before you rush to look...and because it pertains to this article...I will simply remind that it is "Nice catch Hayes, don't ever f***ing do it again."

 

I find the line, the moment, and how it is delivered absolutely hilarious.

 

I don't find what Arcia did in the Royals game Monday night, in the 6th inning, humorous in any way, shape or form.

 

If you missed the play in question, Gibson was cruising along with the game tied 1-1, when the lead off hitter for the inning hit a fairly deep rainbow to left center field. Arcia had to trot a bit, put a little giddy-up on, but didn't have to work hard or sprint to get there. The ball...the rainbow ball, can of corn if you want to quote the hated ChiSox Hawk...came right down to Arcia's glove......and bounced away for an error, putting the lead off hitter on in what would be a 3 run inning that suddenly ended Gibson's night.

 

Now, errors DO HAPPEN. Nobody is perfect. With an out in this situation, it doesn't necessarily mean or prove that the next couple hitters wouldn't have still gotten a walk, a pased ball/wild pitch, double down the line inning to score a run or two. But then again...when an OF literally drops the lead off out, how do we know it didn't change the entire sequence of the inning?

 

My question is this, it was such a "don't ever f***ing do it again moment", that I have to ask; "should Arcia have been pulled from the game to make a point? Calling it a learning moment?"

 

Keep in mind, I'm an Arcia fan, believer and even defender at times! He's young, very talented, has a very big future ahead of him, and has the potential to be at least average defensively. In my opinion. But I felt this play was such an example of lack of concentration and non-chelant attitude that I wonder if a move shouldn't have been made at that point.

 

Your thoughts and opinions?

[TheLeviathan]

I don't think it's concentration.

 

I just think his particular set of athletic skills lacks the "plays good defense" component.  He's just so awkward and uncomfortable out there.  

[twinscowboysbulls]

Pretty sure it's time to send Vargas to AAA and let Arcia DH only.

[Trevor0333]

The entire state of the teams defense is terrible. How Ryan can act so indigent that the defense will be fine this year is utterly baffling.

 

How is this a person who so many trust so much when he not only can't see the obvious but fights against it.

[Shane Wahl]

I just watched the play. I would have pulled him in the half inning, without a doubt. That is inexcusable. He just was lazy.

 

When I was a kid I was taught to get into position and catch the ball with two hands. I do not understand why anyone would ever do anything different than that. He had ample time to *at least* be square to the damn ball when catching it. Good god. 

[Willihammer]

Inb4 "Two hands!"

 

Rex Hudler called this one right.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v81918783/minkc-arcia-drops-moustakas-fly-ball-in-the-6th/?c_id=mlb

[h2oface]

Yank him. That was an attitude catch... or no catch. He does this all the time. He doesn't watch the ball into the glove, even when he catches it, and he is terrified of the wall. Once he get to the warning track he is petrified. This lazy effort needed a message sent.

[Bark's Lounge]

I didn't see the play, but will take everyone's word on it. How could I not, based upon our OF defense this first couple weeks of the season.

 

Obviously, Arcia has very good offensive potential and I am not throwing him in the garbage, but this OF cast of characters is going to wreak havoc on our baseball sanity this season. It was poorly conceived.

 

It is most probably not the right course of action, but I am going to go to sleep tonight, and I will probably have a nightmare about having to go back to High school - which is often, and I will have a nightmare about how most of our position players are batting under the Mendoza line.

 

I will then wake up from my slumber, go to work, get home from work, check Twins Daily and to my delight, find out our starting line-up consists of Rosario in LF, Buxton in CF, and Hicks in RF.

 

They might bat like crap, but this whole outfield defense thing has been a disaster so far - and the guys we have haven't really hit very well (being kind).

 

But, what the hell, Rome wasn't built in one day.

[Shane Wahl]

It bothers me because I thought this was to be Arcia's breakout year. That is, I expected about a 25% increase in offensive production while a 0-5% increase in his defense. Things are going the opposite direction right now. 

And, you know what? I remember it being like, a thing, that Gardenhire jabbered about . . . Arcia was better in RF than LF. The dude played RF way, way more in the minors. And then Torii Hunter comes along this year and somehow cannot play LF. As though Torii Hunter, a one-time great defensive CF could only now play RF instead of LF. As though it made any sense, at all, to move a guy from RF to LF when he A: isn't good defensively anyway, B: had basically only played RF in the minors, and C: was getting a bit better out in RF last year. 

 

Tonight's blunder was a lazy stupid move, but one has to wonder about the effects on his overall game with this dumb move to LF.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Inexcusable and disappointing. Maturity takes time and he kind of reminds me of a young Gomez in that sense, though without the fielding talent. He will play himself out of a job if he continues to hot dog plays like that.

[Kwak]

I didn't see the play, but if it "was a can of corn" (The Hawk did not invent this phrase!), moving nonchalantly is expected.  Anything else is embellishing. Dropping the ball? How does this play differ from those pop-ups dropped in LF (by others)? They were easy plays also--do you immediately pull the player for muffing an easy play? Then there were some plays a few games ago in the infield, Dozier and Santana mad errors on basic plays. Bench them too? My point is: discipline is done privately and quietly--not immediately and publicly.

[Platoon]

I didn't see the play, but if it "was a can of corn" (The Hawk did not invent this phrase!), moving nonchalantly is expected.  Anything else is embellishing. Dropping the ball? How does this play differ from those pop-ups dropped in LF (by others)? They were easy plays also--do you immediately pull the player for muffing an easy play? Then there were some plays a few games ago in the infield, Dozier and Santana mad errors on basic plays. Bench them too? My point is: discipline is done privately and quietly--not immediately and publicly.

. I mostly agree, and would normally not sit someone for that. But even being an Oswaldo backer, he is pushing the limits of patience here. A message could have been given by sitting him after the inning. And comments after the game should have been muted. I think he actually try's hard, but I also think he seems slightly full of himself.

[stringer bell]

I would classify it as an easy catch. The ball was hard-hit and slicing back to Arcia who was positioned pretty far into left-center. When the ball went off the bat, I thought double. He played the ball poorly, fundamentally and then didn't look it into his glove.

[Blake]

I can forgive Arcia and I'm quite sure he was humiliated. I don't pull Arcia, because, like it or not, Arcia is the future. Arcia is young and left field is a new position for him.

 

I thought the misplay by Jordan Schaefer, who is touted as a great defender, to be inexcusable and bench worthy. Schaefer is not the future so, he gets benched over Arcia.

 

 

[COtwin]

He should be benched quietly tonight.  I think this is a good chance for a teachable moment without embarrassing him in front of fans (anymore than he already was).  Schafer's wasn't lazy, he is just really bad a playing defense, and come to think of it, really bad a swinging a baseball bat.  Schafer had a few other poor reads off the bat, did anyone catch those?  He should be benched for a few games as I want to see Robinson a bit more anyway.

[tobi0040]

Arcia is a DH. 

 

Until that happens, he will be an embarrasment in the outfield and start many more 3 run innings.

[gunnarthor]

It was a one base error.  Gibson shouldn't have let it rattle him.  Mistakes happen.  Nunez and Escobar made far worse errors last week.  And I think if Gardy had immediately pulled Arcia (which he'd have never done, either), we'd have a ton of "Gardy threw Arcia under the bus" threads.

 

Arcia's a bat-first left fielder.  Give him time.  Frankly, I've actually thought he looked better than I expected in left so far.  If he's hitting, he can be a LFer.

[bird]

Arcia was trying to look cool by making a cute little waist-high basket catch. I agree that he's got eye-hand issues and is afraid of structures suddenly appearing out of nowhere, but it's his attitude and brain freezes, at the plate and in the field, that drive me crazy. Right now, I hate watching him in all aspects of the game. His three-strike AB was pathetic. Again. Right now, when this kid puts on his uniform, he gets dumber than a gerbil. He's wasting his enormous talent and it's 100% attitude IMO.

 

If I'm managing, I leave him out there and hope he gets jeered, but he's my first meeting after the game. He gets told there's a ticket to Rochester in his in-box, and he'll stay there until he proves he can play like a professional, grown-up ballplayer. See you in July maybe, Waldo. It's up to you. Go get humble.

[Mike Sixel]

Given that they punted on defense this year, moved a shaky defender to a different position, and the GM feels Hunter is adequate or better, I am not sure the team wouldn't look foolish for benching him. Schafer is terrible, going to bench him too? Or Hunter? Outfield defense does matter. We are seeing that clearly this year. But, this is Ryan's plan. I don't see what benching does.

[tobi0040]

 

Given that they punted on defense this year, moved a shaky defender to a different position, and the GM feels Hunter is adequate or better, I am not sure the team wouldn't look foolish for benching him. Schafer is terrible, going to bench him too? Or Hunter? Outfield defense does matter. We are seeing that clearly this year. But, this is Ryan's plan. I don't see what benching does.

 

Agreed the Twins deserve some blame here.  He is totally exposed in LF. But if he is hot dogging it in the pro's, he does to.

 

By my count, he has had at least three plays now that should have been made and were not. I count at least two more that would have been tough plays, some LF's would have made them but his route and angle gave himself   no shot whatsoever.  We have only played 13 games.

 

At this pace, he would blow 37 plays and not make another 25 that other guys will make   At the end of the day, the Royals LF mkes somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 plays that our LF does not (assuming he does not make 10).  That impacts the standings.

 

I just hope when the Twins are evaluating young pitchers, like Gibson, May, and hopefully Meyer they factor in the OF defense and they don't end up sending these guys down because they have a high-ish ERA that is inflated by the OF.  Last year Hughes ERA was a run higher than his FIP.  Well if the young guys have an FIP in the 4.25 range and an ERA in the 5.25 range, they don't need to go down and work on anything.  We need to make the DH playing LF an actual DH.

[Tibs]

I wouldn't have benched him during the game. I don't see what that proves. I think we need to be careful when mentioning the attitude of a person we aren't around everyday though. If Arcia isn't making these plays and is struggling offensively because of bad attitude, then he needs to be benched for some games. Personally, I don't think that is the case.

 

This season so far has really given me a good grasp on how much defense can have an affect on pitching stats. It has to be hard for the pitchers to be confident out there with the way the defense is playing behind them.

[Mike Sixel]

From Grantland.......

 

Compared to the average major league right fielder, Twins right fielders combined to cost their team a total of 23 runs last season, which was the worst mark in baseball. Oswaldo Arcia, a young slugger known far more for his bat than his glove,2 did most of that damage, so in an effort to bolster the outfield defense, Minnesota signed 39-year-old Torii Hunter to a one-year, $10.5 million contract. In addition to the goodwill engendered by bringing back a franchise legend, it hoped he would provide some leadership and also allow the club to move Arcia to the slightly less demanding left-field position.

 

Well, the Twins better be getting tons of veteran guidance because on the field Hunter has been awful. He’s hitting just .225/.256/.350, and his defense has been just as bad. The trademark range and athleticism that made him a Gold Glove center fielder and human highlight reel is now long gone, and DRS rates Twins right fielders (mostly Hunter) as the worst in the majors again this year.3

[tobi0040]

 

 

 

From Grantland.......

Compared to the average major league right fielder, Twins right fielders combined to cost their team a total of 23 runs last season, which was the worst mark in baseball. Oswaldo Arcia, a young slugger known far more for his bat than his glove,2 did most of that damage, so in an effort to bolster the outfield defense, Minnesota signed 39-year-old Torii Hunter to a one-year, $10.5 million contract. In addition to the goodwill engendered by bringing back a franchise legend, it hoped he would provide some leadership and also allow the club to move Arcia to the slightly less demanding left-field position.

Well, the Twins better be getting tons of veteran guidance because on the field Hunter has been awful. He’s hitting just .225/.256/.350, and his defense has been just as bad. The trademark range and athleticism that made him a Gold Glove center fielder and human highlight reel is now long gone, and DRS rates Twins right fielders (mostly Hunter) as the worst in the majors again this year.3

 

Too bad nobody saw this coming.

[jimmer]

 

 

 

 

Too bad nobody saw this coming.

 

:-)

[gunnarthor]

 

Well, the Twins better be getting tons of veteran guidance because on the field Hunter has been awful. He’s hitting just .225/.256/.350, and his defense has been just as bad. The trademark range and athleticism that made him a Gold Glove center fielder and human highlight reel is now long gone, and DRS rates Twins right fielders (mostly Hunter) as the worst in the majors again this year.3

Jeez, Mike.  It's been two weeks.  Cripes, fangraphs defensive stats have Arcia the #2 LFer and Hunter the #10 RFer.  

[spsdrock]

If i was Molly i wold have pulled him on the spot and sent Robinson out there.  I would of gave him the silent treatment for the rest of the game.  After the game I would just simply in passing say you are benched till you prove me wrong.  I dont understand he should be fielding 50-80 balls every single day till he is comfortable.  A coach should grab him and just smack a **** ton of pop ups out to left for him to chase down.  While a coach is watching his movement and his line.  Correct him when he does it wrong.  Do they stop actual work when they get to the big leagues? Just go through the motions of the games and that it?  I just dont understand it sometimes.  I was pretty upset on this especially after i saw him flail wildly at god awful pitches the whole game.

[jimmer]

 

Jeez, Mike.  It's been two weeks.  Cripes, fangraphs defensive stats have Arcia the #2 LFer and Hunter the #10 RFer.  

According to Fangraphs Arcia is at 19 out of 20 in DRS and out of the 24 qualifying RF, only Trumbo is worse than Hunter in DRS..

 

But none of that matters at this point nor does it change what we already knew going into the season.  That they are really bad defenders.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Jeez, Mike.  It's been two weeks.  Cripes, fangraphs defensive stats have Arcia the #2 LFer and Hunter the #10 RFer.  

If you are looking at Fangraphs dWAR, there is no published UZR data for it yet.  Arcia's 2015 dWAR is simply the generic positional adjustment, and he happens to have the 2nd fewest innings among qualified LF.

 

Likewise Hunter has the 10th fewest innings among qualified RF.

[Mike Sixel]

I was just adding comments from a more reliable source than me. But, as the article points out, this is just a continuation of last year.

[SheboyganBrats]

I guess I am grateful that we have outfielders in the outfield this year.  (Yeah, I know, Escobar and Nunez have been out there.)  What I don't understand is why we signed Hunter, unless it was entirely a PR move.  Hunter's arrival has meant that two of our outfielders are playing out of position-- Arcia in left and Schafer in center.  If we had signed a bona fide center fielder, Arcia could have remained in right and Schafer could have played in left, IMO his best position.  I realize I'm beating a dead horse here, but I think we're seeing chickens come home to roost (to extend the barnyard metaphor).  That said, I am with those who found last night's non-catch to be inexcusable, but think the problem should be addressed by Molitor behind closed doors. 

 

I am somewhat perplexed by continuing descriptions of Arcia as this highly talented player.  IMHO, his one talent is his ability to hit the ball a county mile.  Otherwise, he seems to me to be pretty much a one tool guy-- hits for power, but can't his for average, can't field, doesn't have plus speed, and maybe gets some credit for his arm.  Kind of Adam Dunn in the making, if he can stay in the majors.  Just my opinion, and maybe other folks can see a lot more there than I do.