Johan's Venezuelan Debut

[Seth Stohs]

Tonight in Venezuela, Johan Santana pitched for the first time in a game in over a year. He faced six batters and got all six out (including Josmil Pinto on a fly out to LF). 

 

He looked like himself on the mound. There wasn't a radar gun on the feed, but it didn't look like he was throwing real hard. That said, the changeup looked good.

 

I couldn't help but post the following on twitter: 

 

 

 

Seth Stohs @SethTweets  ·  58m 58 minutes ago
Honestly, is there any doubt that Johan Santana will sign with the #MNTwins in the next week or two?

 

So, I'm curious what people think of the idea? Here are some questions for discussion:

 

1. Would you be OK with signing Johan Santana on a minor league contract? 
2. How about a major league contract?
3. Is there a certain dollar figure that you would find acceptable?
4. What kind of role can he play? Should he start, or should they just use him out of the bullpen (IF he were to make the team)?
5. Would it be a case of, as so many here like to say, bringing back the band?
6. Is Johan Santana different because he's Johan Santana?

[Otwins]

Minor league contract only. Would like to see it happen but do not have any expectations of performance. We took a chance on him once before.

[Wyorev]

I would be fine with Johan pitching for the Twins. And, heck, its not my money - pay whatever it takes. It would be for just this one year. 

[Paul Pleiss]

If the Twins can find room to roster Eduardo Nunez, they can find room for whatever is left of Johan Santana.

 

1.Would you be OK with signing Johan Santana on a minor league contract? ABSOLUTELY
2.How about a major league contract? eh... but ultimately yes. It can't be worse than Jason Bartlett, right?
3.Is there a certain dollar figure that you would find acceptable? $1mil with oodles of incentives.
4.What kind of role can he play? Should he start, or should they just use him out of the bullpen (IF he were to make the team)? Pen. Unless he suddenly regains his fastball velocity.
5.Would it be a case of, as so many here like to say, bringing back the band? Yes, but who cares? We signed an aging former defesive whiz to play corner OF for the Twins who are desperately in need of a solid defense to help suspect pitching, despite him having terrible defensive metrics lately. The band needs Johan.
6.Is Johan Santana different because he's Johan Santana? He's no different than Torii. But, yes, he's different than Bartlett, Kubel, et all.

[Jarends703]

I wouldn't be that upset about a minor league contract.  What I would question is whether Johan has more upside than the other Twins pitchers that will be on the outside looking in come opening day. I say develop the younger guys at the major league level while the expectations for competing are lower.  Johan won't be around for the next great Twins teams. 

[071063]

At this point, the Twins are rebuilding and we should be going with younger talent.  I love Johan but if they sign him it should only be to a minor league contract.  He hasn't pitched in how many years.  Let him pitch and see if he can regain his stuff.  If so, then injuries and poor performances by our starters will give him a chance.  Again, if he were to regain his form, if nothing else, he would be a trade chip at the trade deadline.

[tobi0040]

I think if he is near 90 mph with the heater, he gets a major league deal.   I don't think a major league deal with us makes sense.

 

 

[Willihammer]

How many K's?

[Jeremy Nygaard]

I'd sign him to a minor-league deal with a lot of incentives. Reward him nicely for every 5 starts he makes or every 20 innings he pitches. 

[HitInAPinch]

I'd absolutely would love to see Johan back with the Twins.  Question is:  who gets bumped?

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

How's his Outfield Defense?

[James]

Minor league deal... for sure.  Why not? 

 

I think a lot goes into figuring out if he should be in the bullpen or start.  We have some other starters out there that we should probably check out first, especially if they are performing well in ST or AAA.

 

It'd be fun to see Johan in a Twins uniform again though.  

[tobi0040]

If you are Johan though, wouldn't you sign with a team with less depth?  Funny given the last four years, but there has to be a team with fewer bodies and/or at least fewer guys that the team wants to succeed.....Nolasco, May, Meyer, Gibson, etc. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

Minor league deal without question. I'd be a bit curious though if Johann would want better opportunities. With 4 starting spots locked up and some decent competition in Meyer and May, I wonder if Johann would come here.

[ashbury]

Pure AAA contract, that's a no-brainer.  But even a AAA contract with a March 30 opt-out (or April 15, or April 30...), that starts to represent an opportunity cost (even if a minimal one), where innings that go to him during the critical decision-making time in Spring are taken away from someone else who might be more relevant to the team's future.  As always, it comes down to the fundamental scouts' opinions, and if they say he can still bring it, as opposed to "maybe he'll get better by Opening Day", the potential benefit starts to outweigh the small cost.  A guaranteed major league contract?  Whew, the scouts need to be right about him then, because there really is no room at the inn.

[Brandon]

Sign Johan either major or minor league contract is fine.  I would think maybe a split contract with incentives to 5 or 8 million with a one million base.  On the minor league contract part probably have an opt out date after May 1rst as he can't possibly expect 100% to make the team out of spring training without throwing a few innings in the minors after taking 3 of the last 4 years off.

 

Johan is likely to resign with us due to familiarity with the organization.  We almost had him last year but Baltimore offered more money. 

[Mike Sixel]

Cut Duensing, make him your Lefty out of the pen / 8th inning guy / closer........that's what I would do. Out of the box, I know.

[Dantes929]

4.85 NL ERA in his last season which was 2012.   I am fine with a minor league contract and actually starting him in the minors where he would have to do really well before being brought up.    Of course that is the way I felt about Bartlett as well.   There is no harm in making a guy like that go to the minors and prove that he belongs but the "Twins lost my faith in their ability to stick to that kind of deal.    Cy Young a decade ago shouldn't reserve a roster spot for him.

[Linus]

He "touched" 89 with his fastball and change was at 77.

 

The problem with bringing him in is that then you have to give him a chance when, probably, that chance should be going to a younger pitcher.  If he looked good in spring training, it maybe would make sense to deal Duensing and let him be your lefty out of the pen.

 

One thing in his favor, although a shell of his former self, that shell might be better than most of the "last guys" on a staff.

[ashbury]

Of course that is the way I felt about Bartlett as well.  

Yeah, that's the problem.  In effect, a minor league contract will still end up with a 40-man decision by Opening Day, in all likelihood.  You can say that the 40th man on this team isn't worth worrying about - but is an aging Johan the guy you want to trigger such a move?

[Otto von Ballpark]

The problem with bringing him in is that then you have to give him a chance when, probably, that chance should be going to a younger pitcher.

I'd much rather give Johan that chance than, say, giving Tim Stauffer a chance at starting again, or auditioning Blaine Boyer for the pen.  Heck, Santana is only 2-3 years older than those guys anyway...

[Otto von Ballpark]

Seth Stohs @SethTweets  ·  58m 58 minutes ago

Honestly, is there any doubt that Johan Santana will sign with the #MNTwins in the next week or two?

 

Why wasn't this the case last winter?  He signed with Baltimore then.  He may be a bit cheaper now but last year his salary wasn't guaranteed either.

[Seth Stohs]

The "potential" conversation is an interesting one.

 

Alex Meyer, JO Berrios, Trevor May ... all these guys have decent upside potential. But, despite being >30, Johan Santana's potential is still very good. If he's healthy (and his injury last year was not arm related), he can be a #2 starter even at this stage of his career. If you couple that potential upside with Ervin Santana and Phil Hughes and Gibson takes a step forward and Nolasco  goes back to what he had been  before 2014... they may have something... and they'll still have Meyer and May and Berrios in the system.

 

If he winds up as a long-reliever for awhile, that isn't a terrible thing... 

 

I don't see much downside in a high-incentive deal... and there is a ton of upside if he's 85% of what he once was. 

 

I want to see the young guys too, but I also want to see more wins... If he can help them do that, I'm all on board.

 

It's also important to note that we're talking about 2 innings last night... 

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I think he has a long way to go and a lot to prove. There's no question that he was a Hall of fame level talent if the injury bug hadn't bit him. Johan at his peak was nearly untouchable, but that was a very long time ago.

 

A minor league deal with a ST invite is most likely fine. It is a concern to have him taking up a spot that could have gone to a prospect, but the hope is that the Twins org knows about the prospects they have.

 

It would be great if the young guys could spend as much time as possible showing Neil Allen what they can do, he's the guy that hasn't been able to see them every day, and he'll have at least some input into when they get the chance to face MLB hitters.

 

Johan at 86-89 mph means he's not the same type of pitcher we remember. It doesn't mean he can't be effective. And it's just his first start. What was his fastball like last year before his injury?

[SydneyTwinsFan]

If he's healthy (and his injury last year was not arm related), he can be a #2 starter even at this stage of his career.

 

I have to say I have a hard time believing this given his injury history and the fact he hasn't been an effective starter since 2010.

It would be a nice sentimental journey, but I just can't find room for him at this point.

[jorgenswest]

The Twins have a lot of mediocre depth. I don't think Johan fears competing with Pelfrey, Milone, Duensing, Nolasco...

 

Ten starts in AAA should show the Twins if he is healthy.

[DocBauer]

I'd say yes on a milb deal with multiple incentives, to echo other previous comments. And while it would be a neat story, the odds are so far against the big happy climax ending, that I don't care to even take that book off the shelf. So it's not about old band mates. And it's not about Santana being, arguably, the best pitcher in Twins history. (With all due respect to other contestants) It's about a mound bulldog with tremendous previous success who won't give up, who takes care of himself, and who flat out knows how to pitch. While never again being his old self, if his rabbit foot would finally pay off for a season, we could see 50-75% of the old Santana. And that could be a useful ML pitcher.

[stringer bell]

Santana is a skilled hurler, if he were 100% healthy, he still would be at least a better than average pitcher.  However, it isn't whether he has enough stuff to pitch in the majors, it is that his arm is connected mostly by surgical thread.  I sincerely doubt he could hold up more than a few weeks.  Beyond that, some other part probably will fail him. 

 

Unless the Twins are convinced he has found a magical cure for his ailment, they shouldn't sign him.  I do want to remind Mr. Pleiss that Bartlett signed a minor-league deal, the problem was that they let him make the team on attitude and experience rather than performance.  Perhaps a new field management team would hold their veteran minor-league contracts to higher performance standards, I sure hope so.

[JB_Iowa]

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi  · 3m3 minutes ago 
Johan Santana to miss Venezuelan Winter League final due to shoulder discomfort, according to @LVBP_Oficial: http://www.lvbp.com/johan-santana-se-perderia-la-final.php …

[Mike Sixel]

Sign him, fast, while he thinks he has no value!

 

I hope this puts to rest the idea he can be a MLB starter. Reliever, maybe......