Targeting Pete Bourjos

[Lonestar]

What would it take for the Twins to obtain Pete Bourjos from the Cardinals as a 1-year placeholder for Byron Buxton in CF?

 

A trade for a defensively gifted outfielder such as Peter Bourjos would make sense for Minnesota, in my mind. He could provide elite center field defense while Buxton develops, and he would also improve results for the team’s pitching staff. Bourjos’ modest salary would allow Ryan to focus his resources on improving the rotation.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/10/offseason-outlook-minnesota-twins-5.html

 

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/cardinals-continue-being-smart-acquire-peter-bourjos/

[beckmt]

He is a clone of Aaron Hicks without the upside.  His bat is very suspect and he does not have Shafer's speed on the bases.  It would only block the development of the new Twins.

[Nick Nelson]

He is a clone of Aaron Hicks without the upside.  His bat is very suspect and he does not have Shafer's speed on the bases.  It would only block the development of the new Twins.

I don't think that's quite fair. Bourjos might be the best defensive outfielder in baseball, and there's value in that for a team like the Twins. I'm just not sure he hits enough to be a quality regular.

[TheLeviathan]

He is a clone of Aaron Hicks without the upside.  His bat is very suspect and he does not have Shafer's speed on the bases.  It would only block the development of the new Twins.

Hicks and Schafer aren't half the defenders in CF that Bourjos is.

[USAFChief]

Hip surgery, no bat.

 

Pass.

[stringer bell]

I guess the hip surgery wasn't a major thing. He is supposed to be full speed by spring training. Bourjos would be a #9 hitter for the Twins, or just about any MLB team. If he could make the defense much better, it might be worth it to acquire him. The cost? I am terrible at estimating, but maybe a mid-range prospect?

[Lonestar]

The cost? I am terrible at estimating, but maybe a mid-range prospect?

I am not confident, either.  That's why I asked the question.  I didn't ask if the Twins should do it,  although I find them interesting.

[TheLeviathan]

Hip surgery, no bat.

 

Pass.

 

The CF market is pretty poor, if we pass on him I'm honestly not sure what else we would do.  Rasmus isn't a good CF fit for us given how our park plays.

 

I would imagine someone like Eades might do it.  Or Gonsalves?  I'd pay that price to have a borderline elite CF patrolling the park.

[matthew0211]

If you want to deal with the Cardinals, how about setting our sights a little higher and going for John Jay.  It may take a better prospect, but you'd be getting decent defense (not Bourjos-level, obviously) and a much better bat.  Especially with Hayward coming aboard, they might deal him.

[Danchat]

I'd be fine with Bourjos as a CF for just one season. He's got great speed and superb defensive skills, if he's healthy, that is. We have to put somebody out there in CF not named Aaron Hicks, and Bourjos is one of our few options (not named Danny Santana). Maybe he could do a big turnabout at the plate like Suzuki and Schafer...? (Probably not, but hey, who knows.)

[DocBauer]

Absolutely I'd mKe a move for him. In fact, he might be near the top of my list. We wouldn't be sure exactly what we were getting, to be sure. Everything I read is that he is excellent defensively, something we need. I don't know the exact cost to get him, but a 4th OF with a questionable bat is not going to cost anything close to a top 10 player. Considering the depth of the Twins system, it probably wouldn't include a top 20 player.

 

Bourjos provides excellent defense, and a RH bat, which might mean a semi-quasi-platoon with Schafer. He appears to have some speed and SB ability/success, which also matches Schafer a bit. Whoever doesn't start offers defense,speed and some position flexibility.

 

What exactly do we get with Bourjos in regard to his bat? It's a mystery. But it's not all bad news.

 

Career: .247/.304/.388 triple slash with a .692 OPS. Mediocre to be sure. But with excellent defense, other than OB%, those numbers look almost glowing compared to Hicks. ( and I'm not trying to bash)

 

2013: .274/.327/.438 triple slash with a .710 OPS with 3/3/3 power numbers and 6-0 in SB w/ 55G and 175AB

 

2011: .271/.327/.438 triple with a .765 OPS with 26/11/12 power numbers and 22-9 in SB w/ 147G and 502AB

 

Of course, there is also some bad as well. But there is potential here for something good to at least not terrible with great defense. He won't cost much financially, or in prospects, and could offer another quality candidate for a versatile bench player a year from now.

[Bark's Lounge]

I have no idea what you would have to give up to get Bourjos, but if it is lesser than, let's say, Eddie Rosario, sure, take a stab at it. I really have no clue on what Bourjos' trade value is, please cut me some slack on this one.

 

What I would hate to see, is the Twins signing Colby Rasmus. I think that would be flushing money down the toilet. You never know, he might have a lucky BABIP season and hit 16HR's and bat .270, with a .750OPS, but it is not worth the risk in my opinion.

 

Hell, before I would sign Rasmus, I'd give Rick Ankiel a phone call and see if he would want to come out of retirement and give it another try in a Twins uniform. I seriously believe their production would be very comparable. That should pretty much sum up what I think about Rasmus.

[TheLeviathan]

What I would hate to see, is the Twins signing Colby Rasmus. I think that would be flushing money down the toilet. You never know, he might have a lucky BABIP season and hit 16HR's and bat .270, with a .750OPS, but it is not worth the risk in my opinion.

 

I think it depends on the cost.  Personally I'd like to have Bourjos and Rasmus.

[Bark's Lounge]

I think it depends on the cost.  Personally I'd like to have Bourjos and Rasmus.

I am guessing from your point of view they would both be starting - Rasmus in LF, and Bourjos in CF. Rasmus made 7M last season, although I do not like his production as a player, if you could get him for 8-9M for one season, maybe with some incentives? Maybe it would be worth the risk for the Twins, for me, not so much. Peter Bourjos would be much more cost effective and you are going to get elite defense from him. It's not my money and really not a focus of my interest (salary).

 

As you have written on other posts, we should expect regression from Santana and Vargas, and I agree with you 100%. But what if we sign Rasmus, trade for Bourjos, and they along with Santana and Vargas stink up the joint offensively - next years team could really be screwed.

[stringer bell]

Well, I would favor Bourjos over Rasmus. First of all, the cost wouldn't be nearly as much in terms of salary. Secondly, I don't think Rasmus is a fit. Look at the platoon splits--Rasmus' career OPS vs. LH pitching is .648 (.788 vs. RH pitching) and he has been platooned in the past year or so. That wouldn't be too big a problem, but the Twins already have three slated starters who struggle against left handed pitching--Mauer, Vargas, and Arcia (I also suspect that Santana will regress more against lefties). They really could use a right handed bat, besides Plouffe and Dozier or any random lefty reliever will come in and retire the guys with poor splits against southpaws. I am not sure that his power will play at Target Field. The power is what makes his OPS look good. Rasmus isn't the fielder that Bourjos is either, and he has missed a lot of games the last two years with injuries. For the price that is being bandied about, I'd rather accept modest offense and gold medal defense from Bourjos than go with what Rasmus has to offer for perhaps as much as $10M per year.

[TheLeviathan]

I am guessing from your point of view they would both be starting - Rasmus in LF, and Bourjos in CF. Rasmus made 7M last season, although I do not like his production as a player, if you could get him for 8-9M for one season, maybe with some incentives? Maybe it would be worth the risk for the Twins, for me, not so much. Peter Bourjos would be much more cost effective and you are going to get elite defense from him. It's not my money and really not a focus of my interest (salary).

 

As you have written on other posts, we should expect regression from Santana and Vargas, and I agree with you 100%. But what if we sign Rasmus, trade for Bourjos, and they along with Santana and Vargas stink up the joint offensively - next years team could really be screwed.

 

Yeah that's precisely what I'd like to see with one in CF and one in LF.  I want Rasmus for 1-2 years at about 18-20M, so right on again.

 

The risk you present is real, but I guess I'm not sure what alternatives out there are any better?  The Twins' offense has some serious regression issues and I don't see much on the market that can help them.  Particularly among the OFs - what are you thinking?

[EephusKnuckler]

Well, Ozzie Guillen did say he was the fastest white man he's ever seen.

[DocBauer]

Personally, as stated, I'd make the move for Bourjos. I just think it's smart, and should pay off decently, potentially well.

 

I lean toward Rios for LF. At 33 and athletic, I think he's got some life left in him. He offers solid defense, range, experience in LF but with a RF arm. He's been an up and down and bounce-back performer before. His career line averages are .278/.323/.439/.762 with 32Dbls, 5.5Tpls, 15 HRs and 22 SB. He had a "bad" 2014 season in which he hit .280/.311/.398/.709 with 30Dbls, 8Tpls, 4HR and 17SB. If he could produce his career avg numbers he'd be a steal. If he provided something between career avg and last season he'd still be a nice pickup and an improvement over what we had last season.

[stringer bell]

Doc, according to Baseball Reference, Rios has played a grand total of 11 innings in left field. I agree with most all of the rest of your thoughts.

[h2oface]

I'd like to see Bourjos signed just to see how many different ways posters spell his name when commenting.

[Bark's Lounge]

Yeah that's precisely what I'd like to see with one in CF and one in LF.  I want Rasmus for 1-2 years at about 18-20M, so right on again.

 

The risk you present is real, but I guess I'm not sure what alternatives out there are any better?  The Twins' offense has some serious regression issues and I don't see much on the market that can help them.  Particularly among the OFs - what are you thinking?

Yasmany Tomas would be a start, coupled with Bourjos. If it were a season later my ideas would be different, but that is not the case. I need to crash - I will dream on it and get back to you.

[James Richter]

I asked my Cards-fan buddy what he thought they would want for Bourjos, and he replied, "Joe Kelly?" Apart from the GB%, Kelly looks an awful lot like Tommy Milone. The Cards didn't have a real stable bullpen last year either, so I would think a cost-controlled MR (Fien?) might get it done, too. Either way, not a huge price.

 

Bourjos is good enough in CF to cancel out Arcia's bad glove in RF. Hicks/Schafer are likely to be average to plus in LF. You will not believe how much better the Twins' pitchers will look with a good OF behind them. I can't think of any single player who could have more of a positive impact while costing so little to acquire. Totally worth it - even if he doesn't hit.

[jokin]

I asked my Cards-fan buddy what he thought they would want for Bourjos, and he replied, "Joe Kelly?" Apart from the GB%, Kelly looks an awful lot like Tommy Milone. The Cards didn't have a real stable bullpen last year either, so I would think a cost-controlled MR (Fien?) might get it done, too. Either way, not a huge price.

 

Bourjos is good enough in CF to cancel out Arcia's bad glove in RF. Hicks/Schafer are likely to be average to plus in LF. You will not believe how much better the Twins' pitchers will look with a good OF behind them. I can't think of any single player who could have more of a positive impact while costing so little to acquire. Totally worth it - even if he doesn't hit.

 

Did you get a chance to ask your Cards friend about Jon Jay? 

[James Richter]

Jay, being the more complete all-around player, is the guy the win-now Cards want to run with in CF next year. His defensive value in CF isn't much different than what the Twins could get out of Hicks or Schafer (or any of the FAs) anyway. I think we saw in August that even a top-of-the-league offense can't win consistently if they can't turn balls in play into outs. This is an area where I'd rather sacrifice a little offensively to get a bigger upgrade on defense.

[Bark's Lounge]

Yeah that's precisely what I'd like to see with one in CF and one in LF.  I want Rasmus for 1-2 years at about 18-20M, so right on again.

 

The risk you present is real, but I guess I'm not sure what alternatives out there are any better?  The Twins' offense has some serious regression issues and I don't see much on the market that can help them.  Particularly among the OFs - what are you thinking?

Sorry about petering out on this response last evening. For me, I would pass on Rasmus, especially if he gets 2 years and 20M. Because there are not many alternatives out there, like you have said (maybe Alex Rios..blah), I would take my chances with a LF combo of Hicks, Schafer, Rosario.

 

None of these are very attractive options, but I cannot justify giving Rasmus the 2 years and the money. Chances are, that Hicks, Schafer and Rosario with play acceptable defense and Rasmus will do the same and chances are they will all be a detriment to our offense.

 

There are no good answers this offseason for an OF acquisition except for Bourjos, the Twins should strongly push for that and make it happen.

 

I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.

[stringer bell]

If none of the young outfielders pan out in the course of the season, then Bourjos is the Plan B. If two of Hicks, Schafer, and Rosario succeed, Bourjos becomes a valuable defensive replacement, pinch runner and platoon partner. If all goes swimmingly, Bourjos could be flipped. I would love to see the Twins get a defender who is widely regarded as among the best in the business.

 

BTW, while I believe the Twins want Santana to play short, I don't think the Twins will have forgotten the 70 games he played in the outfield. I wouldn't be surprised if Santana ends up back in the outfield.

 

Several things could cause Santana to move back: 1) Santana struggles either defensively or offensively as the starting shortstop. 2) Escobar continues to show he deserves playing time. 3) There is lack of productivity from outfielders.

[nicksaviking]

Gross, no.  No power, very little threat on the bases and minimal on base skills.  I think everyone is trying to over compensate for the poor defense.  I don't want to create another black hole in the lineup intentionally.  If the Cardinals released him, sure, he's an upgrade to Schafer, but I'm not giving up anything resembling a prospect for a one year stop gap on a losing team.  Any functional franchise wouldn't give him more than 300 AB in a season.

[stringer bell]

Gross, no.  No power, very little threat on the bases and minimal on base skills.  I think everyone is trying to over compensate for the poor defense.  I don't want to create another black hole in the lineup intentionally.  If the Cardinals released him, sure, he's an upgrade to Schafer, but I'm not giving up anything resembling a prospect for a one year stop gap on a losing team.  Any functional franchise wouldn't give him more than 300 AB in a season.

I never saw the original quote, but apparently Ozzie Guillen called him the fastest white guy in MLB. Bourjos would be a decent threat on the bases and BB Ref gives him positive numbers for base running every season. I don't think we can book above-average offense, but his career OPS+ is 94 and he'll play next year at age 28, not at the point where his skills will diminish.

[The Wise One]

For an outfielder I would hope that Ryan can pull a majic trick and find someone out there better than Bourjos. If that isn't gong to happen then Bourjos could be a fine placeholder

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Cardinals fans on MLB trade rumors don't think Bourjos is worth much. One mentioned Travis Harrison could be a fair trade. Another mentioned Stuart Turner. Harrison for Bourjos would be ok with me...