Berardino: "No contact" between Twins & Maddon

[Champuckett]

If the info is true, the reporting person credible, then I guess I have lost more of what little faith I had left with this organization than I thought was possible.

 

I agree with some other posters, that a small amount of faith was restored with the firing of Gardy. Now the news of not even a single phone call.. Forget it.

 

I don't think a single fan of the Twins ever thought we had a real shot at landing him, or at least a good chance. But I don't think the same people would have thought we would put exactly zero effort, inquiry, or curiosity into this development.

 

Such an embarrassment at the moment to be a fan of this franchise.

 

We get to go back to checking for news about the exciting possibility of hiring an exciting guy with Paul Molitor!

[Kelly Vance]

Look, maybe they know Joe and just don't like him. Maybe they have made the decision already, so why bother? I'm not getting excited about it. 

 

Joe is a decent manager, but he is not a genius. I mean, managing a baseball team is not THAT hard. Play the guys where they fit and, on most teams, the rosters are pretty much a given. Sometimes you make a switch and play the hot hand for a while. Maybe make a couple adjustments in a pinch, like Santana to the OF.  But I think there are literally thousands of high school or even little league coaches that could manage the Twins.

 

How hard is it to fill out this lineup?

 

Santana SS

Mauer 1B

Buxton CF

Vargas DH

Sano LF

Arcia RF

Plouffe 3B

Dozier 2B

Suzuki C

 

Yeah, you have to be a genius to write in those names.

 

OK, to start the year, maybe switch Shafe with Sano and drop him to  #8 or up to #2 if he hits and Hicks for Bux and drop him to #9. Still easy to do.

 

Pitcher struggles? Get the next guy up, based on who is coming up in the order for the other guys and have a lefty for that situation where you need a lefty reliever. My word, how brilliant!!!!  Geez, you need a Harvard degree for that, right?

Nope.

 

I think that managing a baseball club is far easier than being a trial lawyer, or a surgeon, or a school teacher in a ghetto school.

 

Baseball is easy. 

 

If Ryan names Molitor, we all know he was just going through the motions before naming a guy he picked for the job last year.   Who does he think he is fooliing?

 

But whoever The Twins  name has got a job a lot easier than yours maybe. And a lot more fun. I mean, free sunflower seeds, free food in the clubhouse, and the best seat in the house for  a baseball game every day.

 

Like I said. Easy

[Squirrel]

I wonder what would satisfy anyone these days? If the Twins had called Maddon but didn't really pursue him, everyone would complain that the call was just for show, the Twins didn't do their due diligence, weren't really serious, and that we're more savvy than that to be placated by it; we've been cheated and lied to again. If the Twins had called and Maddon said 'No thanks' then it of course speaks poorly of the Twins and not to anything else Maddon might want. If they had interviewed him, but declined to hire him, the Twins are cheap or don't know what they're doing, and again, we've been cheated and lied to. I've read all these scenarios in various forms over the last several days, so I ask, what would satisfy everyone? I'm not trying to be contrary here, nor am I trying to be a flame-baiting troll, nor am I suggesting we all follow along in blind trust, nor am I saying any of these scenarios is right or wrong, but I really do wonder. Seems to me that nothing short of hiring Maddon is what most want and most think is the absolute only thing that should happen and nothing short of that will be genuine and speaks to a misguided or disingenuous process. I get the frustration and uncertainty in all of this. I really hate how this organization is run at times, and gnash my teeth over certain decisions; and I am not a fan of those running things and have said so many times. And all this makes it really tough to be a Twins fan at times, especially in the recent past. But when they announce the new manager, and it most certainly will not be Maddon, what then? Is that the last straw for any? Are we still fans? Will we eventually be able to embrace the new manager and move on and look forward? Short of a free-for-all riot on TD, what's next here?

[Craig Arko]

World Peace.

[old nurse]

Perhaps the Twins analytic department figured out that a manager who had 4 good to Ace starting pitchers every year and multiiple All Stsar players on the field had his team actually underperforming despite his baseball knowledge. Maddon may be the smartest baseball mind in the world, but he has no ring.  He had a good 6 year run but no ring.

 

I don't really think Tampa will be very good this year. Maddon left stating something about building a contender. Both he and Friedman leave before any genius reputation can be tarnished by a bad team. See Gardenhire, Ron.

[old nurse]

I wonder what would satisfy anyone these days? If the Twins had called Maddon but didn't really pursue him, everyone would complain that the call was just for show, the Twins didn't do their due diligence, weren't really serious, and that we're more savvy than that to be placated by it; we've been cheated and lied to again. If the Twins had called and Maddon said 'No thanks' then it of course speaks poorly of the Twins and not to anything else Maddon might want. If they had interviewed him, but declined to hire him, the Twins are cheap or don't know what they're doing, and again, we've been cheated and lied to. I've read all these scenarios in various forms over the last several days, so I ask, what would satisfy everyone? I'm not trying to be contrary here, nor am I trying to be a flame-baiting troll, nor am I suggesting we all follow along in blind trust, nor am I saying any of these scenarios is right or wrong, but I really do wonder. Seems to me that nothing short of hiring Maddon is what most want and most think is the absolute only thing that should happen and nothing short of that will be genuine and speaks to a misguided or disingenuous process. I get the frustration and uncertainty in all of this. I really hate how this organization is run at times, and gnash my teeth over certain decisions; and I am not a fan of those running things and have said so many times. And all this makes it really tough to be a Twins fan at times, especially in the recent past. But when they announce the new manager, and it most certainly will not be Maddon, what then? Is that the last straw for any? Are we still fans? Will we eventually be able to embrace the new manager and move on and look forward? Short of a free-for-all riot on TD, what's next here?

There are trends to what people post.  If there is a perceived wrong with the Twins some one will comment, more will take up the cause. It is called loving to complain about those you love.

[TheLeviathan]

Let's contemplate why TR might not need to have Maddon come in for an interview...

Money is obviously the easiest answer, but might be too lazy. What else might there be? (And his thick glasses don't count as a real answer.)

 

I think one possibility is that they are avoiding Maddon because they don't want it to be perceived as a slight against the two candidates we have narrowed our search down to.  

 

My biggest concern from this, if I'm the Twins, is that there continues to be a perception that if money is a big factor - we're irrelevant.  We get dismissed out of hand before there is even a token conversation.

[jay]

My biggest concern from this, if I'm the Twins, is that there continues to be a perception that if money is a big factor - we're irrelevant. We get dismissed out of hand before there is even a token conversation.

I can definitely see the PR aspect of it being concerning. Who dismisses them out of hand though? Maddon's comments don't sound like that has happened here...

[big dog]

World Peace.

Either that, or sour antipathy.

[TFelton]

My speculation - why would Maddon leave Tampa, as sure the salary issue is one, but wonder if like Leeland, he wants a shot with a high payroll team.

[Platoon]

One interesting comment by Mackey. He mentions a possible Twins inferiority complex. I know that's hard to quantify, but maybe the Twins have gotten so inurred to this small market mantra they feel to much like the "little engine that could"?

 

Money? 5 mil is only 3 mil over Gardies reported number. The Pohlads probably know more about making money than I do. So someone in their office has a calculator that would show them that it takes only 150,000 fans at a minimal $20 per seat, per annum to pay the difference. On a 3 year deal that's under a half million seats.

 

Image? The Cubs are a storied franchise. Albeit sometimes it's the wrong story, but from reports they have tons of young talent, a big name GM who seems willing to fill in the holes, and frankly a bigger more urbane city.

 

Control? To me this seems the only logical reason the Twins have not initiated contact. I don't know either man personally, but I doubt TR would be willing to cede any real manner of roster control to someone else. He might throw someone like Gardy a few crums, ie Bartlett, but there is only one guy who decides when the Sano's of the world move up. I would venture that he has more hair than flexibility.

 

Lastly, the Twins do not seem like an orginasation that would already know who their choice is (you really can't tell me TR leaned a thing from the Molitor, Dougy B. interviews), have maybe already told the applicants where they stand, and then upset the apple cart.

 

TR is a little like the captain of the Titanic! He has set a course, and a little thing like a iceberg (Maddon) is not going to make him change course. Hopefully this voyage turns out differently?

[Platoon]

Why does making a phone call or conducting an interview even matter? Simply to placate people that the Twins were interested?

We're being extremely cynical if we don't think TR has enough information to decide whether that is needed. Disagree with that decision plenty, but all the noise about not calling him is missing the bigger picture.

Let's contemplate why TR might not need to have Maddon come in for an interview...

Money is obviously the easiest answer, but might be too lazy. What else might there be? (And his thick glasses don't count as a real answer.)

CONTROL

[Winston Smith]

Sisyphus lives!

[diehardtwinsfan]

I would think they would at least kick the tires here. Perhaps they did through unofficial channels, but this is one thing about the org that frustrates me. I'd think you'd look. Maddon has a reputation for working with young guys, and that's precisely the type of person that's needed to turn this team around as quite a few younger players debuted in 2014, and several more key ones will follow in 2015.

 

As for the money aspect, I really wish that if the public was financing stadiums, that the teams would be forced to open their books. I suspect that would unify a lot of these arguments one way or another. The extra comp pick in 2015 tells me that revenues aren't as rosy as people seem to think, but personally, I'd like to know what those numbers are.

 

I don't think Maddon's presence in the dugout is going to somehow put more people in the seats, unless he really can on his own add some wins to the team. I do think that managers have more effect on games than what they are often credited for, but the team is going to have to flirt with 90 games in order to bring the fans back. Can Maddon be a part of that? Probably, which is why I'm surprised he wasn't asked.

[Boom Boom]

Saying "Maddon wasn't interested anyway" is just sour grapes on the part of Twins Territory.  What does it hurt to call his agent and hear it straight from the source?  

[iTwins]

I pride myself in making measured responses. I try not to fly off the handle when learning Twins related news and typically avoid saying too much if all I have to say is critical (and not particularly constructive).

 

I don't have that restraint here.

 

It's baffling, dumbfounding and insulting that the Twins haven't even reached out to Maddon at this point.

 

You're looking to put a manager in place who can work with a young core and build a winning tradition once again. Ideally, you'd like someone who is both qualified for the job and who would add some element of "draw" back to your languishing franchise. Maddon is all of those things and more. He's a well known name, respected amongst the players (as far as I've read) and popular among the fans. He's also proven to be a great baseball mind who does a lot with young talent. In short, he's EXACTLY what a team like the Twins needs.

 

And you don't even call.

 

I bristle at crying poor as well. "It's not in the budget" is complete and total garbage. They know it, we know it...who exactly are you lying to and why do you think they'd buy this sad excuse?

 

Even if the team knows Maddon has no interest in managing here (which is entirely possible) at the VERY LEAST you have to make a phone call. "Hey, $4 million a year interest you at all? No? Okay. Best of luck."

 

If you think small, you'll never grow beyond those expectations. Safe bets at manager and low risks payoff EXACTLY as well as you think they might. You may see some solid returns, but you're never going to hit the ball out of the park when you're simply content to slap a single the other way.

 

Sometimes, this team really irritates me.

[tobi0040]

I would think they would at least kick the tires here. Perhaps they did through unofficial channels, but this is one thing about the org that frustrates me. I'd think you'd look. Maddon has a reputation for working with young guys, and that's precisely the type of person that's needed to turn this team around as quite a few younger players debuted in 2014, and several more key ones will follow in 2015.

 

As for the money aspect, I really wish that if the public was financing stadiums, that the teams would be forced to open their books. I suspect that would unify a lot of these arguments one way or another. The extra comp pick in 2015 tells me that revenues aren't as rosy as people seem to think, but personally, I'd like to know what those numbers are.

 

I don't think Maddon's presence in the dugout is going to somehow put more people in the seats, unless he really can on his own add some wins to the team. I do think that managers have more effect on games than what they are often credited for, but the team is going to have to flirt with 90 games in order to bring the fans back. Can Maddon be a part of that? Probably, which is why I'm surprised he wasn't asked.

 

I agree. I think the issue is money...but whether it be money or control, not kicking the tires on the best available guy for either reason is a huge red flag to me.

 

To the broader point about opening up the books.  That would be nice.  When the government hands out tax incentives to businesses those incentives are tied to results.  If you say we want tax incentives to build a new headquarter office because it will move 1,000 jobs to that city....the city will provide said benefits if you live up to your word.  Year 1, you prove you have that many jobs making x amount of money and your benefit is x, same thing going out in some cases 20 years.  The Twins clearly got a blank check.

[tobi0040]

I think one possibility is that they are avoiding Maddon because they don't want it to be perceived as a slight against the two candidates we have narrowed our search down to.  

 

My biggest concern from this, if I'm the Twins, is that there continues to be a perception that if money is a big factor - we're irrelevant.  We get dismissed out of hand before there is even a token conversation.

 

I apologize, but I get a little irritated with the use of the word perception in the context of payroll.  The article even said this match is unlikely and the first reason cited was payroll.  Even if people think it is a control issue, the guy demanding $5M at least played a role.  I think we have an established history here and should not hide from that.

 

We won't call Max or Lesters agent either and that is entirely a money thing too.  I just wish we could all admit it.

[tobi0040]

I'm not sure what you're looking for here.  Do you truly believe that your fellow posters are too dense to understand that the Twins don't go sign every big dollar free agent because of money?  It seems pretty obvious that money is a concern at some point for every single MLB team, even including the Yankees.

 

Is your point that the Twins don't spend enough money for your liking?  Do you think you've made that point clear often enough?  What does continuing to harp on that prove?  Is there something else you can add to the conversation?

 

Here is the disconnect. 

 

You have suggested the Twins would pay Maddon $5M.  That is a disagreement between you and I.

 

Leviathan has suggested the concerning part is a "perception" that money played a role in not calling Maddon's agent.  The disagreement between him and I is that the reality, not perception caused the Twins to not call his agent.

 

I don't think anyone on these boards are dense.  But you and others dismiss payroll comments as fringe.

 

I apologize if these points are brought up too often for your liking, or that my points in your eyes aren't adding enough to the conversation.  I would suggest hitting "ignore" button.

[brvama]

Today from MLB Trade Rumors -- Latest on the Twins' manager search:

 

"The Twins have had no contact whatsoever with Maddon, reports Berardino, whose report indicates that expected cost may be a factor. A source in Maddon’s camp tells Berardino that the former Rays manager would have welcomed the interest but would probably be looking for a team with a clearer route to competing in the near term".
 

Boldface for emphasis.

[nicksaviking]

Why does making a phone call or conducting an interview even matter? Simply to placate people that the Twins were interested?

We're being extremely cynical if we don't think TR has enough information to decide whether that is needed. Disagree with that decision plenty, but all the noise about not calling him is missing the bigger picture.

 

Let's contemplate why TR might not need to have Maddon come in for an interview...

Money is obviously the easiest answer, but might be too lazy. What else might there be? (And his thick glasses don't count as a real answer.)

 

You've got to be kidding.  Ryan has needed three interviews to get a read on Paul Molitor and he still hasn't made a decision.  We're talking about a man Ryan has known for at least two decades.  I highly doubt Ryan has enough intel on Maddon to rule him out as a logical choice for the position.

[tobi0040]

Today from MLB Trade Rumors -- Latest on the Twins' manager search:

 

"The Twins have had no contact whatsoever with Maddon, reports Berardino, whose report indicates that expected cost may be a factor. A source in Maddon’s camp tells Berardino that the former Rays manager would have welcomed the interest but would probably be looking for a team with a clearer route to competing in the near term".

 

Boldface for emphasis.

 

Cost "may" be a factor and he "probably" would be looking for another opportunity.

 

It would seem simple to call the guy and ask him and confirm both.  Especially if we were going to offer him $5M and therefore, cost would likely not be a huge factor.

[JB_Iowa]

Let's contemplate why TR might not need to have Maddon come in for an interview...

Money is obviously the easiest answer, but might be too lazy. What else might there be? (And his thick glasses don't count as a real answer.)

 

He hated the movie "Pat & Mike" and can't get past Maddon's resemblance to Spencer Tracy.

[nicksaviking]

I still fail to see how Maddon to Minnesota is that much more of a stretch than Terry Fancona to Cleveland.

 

This club is just too damn conservative, and not even so much in a financial way. A forward thinking team would say to themselves, "If we were OK with paying Nick Blackburn $5.5 million NOT to play for us, why is $5 million to much to pay a manager who may actually impact games? Geez, $7-8 million might not even be a bad investment"  Would anyone here really be upset if the Twins used their budget on a top end manager instead of another back of the rotation arm?

 

But of course this team is going to be followers sticking to the league mantra that MLB managers are worth $2 million. Period.  This will change when the rest of the league changes it for the Twins.  Why is it too much to ask for a GM/organization that is willing to be at the forefront of a new philosophy?  Trends toward shifts, analytics, strikeout arms, etc, why must our favorite team always be among the last to follow suit  Can we be a leader for a change? 

 

The Twins used to be a low power/high contact team with good defense.  Now they've shifted to power propects with poor contact and questionable defense because that's what everyone else did 5-10 years ago.  Guess what, the league has shifted back to high contact and defense and the Twins are left with yesterday's theories all over again.

 

Lemmigs.  Lemmings that are still wearing last decades fashion trends.

[TheLeviathan]

I apologize, but I get a little irritated with the use of the word perception in the context of payroll.  The article even said this match is unlikely and the first reason cited was payroll.  Even if people think it is a control issue, the guy demanding $5M at least played a role.  I think we have an established history here and should not hide from that.

 

We won't call Max or Lesters agent either and that is entirely a money thing too.  I just wish we could all admit it.

 

I'm not sure where this came from.  I was stating that there is a perception/belief around the league that the Twins aren't even worth talking to if you want big money.  That seemed to be what that "source" (who could clearly be nothing to take seriously) was getting at.  

 

That's what I was getting at jay, the quote from the source seems to imply that it's a given the Twins aren't worth talking to when serious money is in play.  I don't like that and neither should the Twins.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I wonder what would satisfy anyone these days? If the Twins had called Maddon but didn't really pursue him, everyone would complain that the call was just for show, the Twins didn't do their due diligence, weren't really serious, and that we're more savvy than that to be placated by it; we've been cheated and lied to again. If the Twins had called and Maddon said 'No thanks' then it of course speaks poorly of the Twins and not to anything else Maddon might want. If they had interviewed him, but declined to hire him, the Twins are cheap or don't know what they're doing, and again, we've been cheated and lied to. I've read all these scenarios in various forms over the last several days, so I ask, what would satisfy everyone? I'm not trying to be contrary here, nor am I trying to be a flame-baiting troll, nor am I suggesting we all follow along in blind trust, nor am I saying any of these scenarios is right or wrong, but I really do wonder. Seems to me that nothing short of hiring Maddon is what most want and most think is the absolute only thing that should happen and nothing short of that will be genuine and speaks to a misguided or disingenuous process. I get the frustration and uncertainty in all of this. I really hate how this organization is run at times, and gnash my teeth over certain decisions; and I am not a fan of those running things and have said so many times. And all this makes it really tough to be a Twins fan at times, especially in the recent past. But when they announce the new manager, and it most certainly will not be Maddon, what then? Is that the last straw for any? Are we still fans? Will we eventually be able to embrace the new manager and move on and look forward? Short of a free-for-all riot on TD, what's next here?

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

 

What is most bothersome is not that they didn't "seriously pursue" Maddon, it's that they didn't even call.

 

Costs you $0 dollars and 30 seconds to pick up the phone!

 

Maybe all parties knew Maddon wouldn't be a good fit, but call him anyway. Hear what their side has to say, then let your fans hear it from you, not them. Thirty seconds of your time. If not Ryan, someone else in the FO. Granted the timing wasn't great. This is not the behavior of a "do what it takes" organization. Yet apparently 15 other teams already with managers did call him.

[Willihammer]

If I'm TR, I'm getting on the blower yesterday to call Dave Martinez, Joe Maddon, and Tim Bogar to schedule interviews. If only to be able to say to the guy he does wind up hiring, "we passed over A, B, C, and D to hire you. Now go win a World Series."

[Winston Smith]

There is no valid excuse for not at least getting on a plane and flying to him and spending a couple hours talking about things with him, imo.

 

If after that the end result was it just wasn't a fit so be it. However not even talking to him is maddon-ing!

[tobi0040]

I'm not sure where this came from.  I was stating that there is a perception/belief around the league that the Twins aren't even worth talking to if you want big money.  That seemed to be what that "source" (who could clearly be nothing to take seriously) was getting at.  

 

That's what I was getting at jay, the quote from the source seems to imply that it's a given the Twins aren't worth talking to when serious money is in play.  I don't like that and neither should the Twins.

 

I misunderstood you then, I apologize. I thought you were saying it is concerning that a perception exists among fans that the Twins would not pay for Maddon, therefore did not call.

[nicksaviking]

There is no valid excuse for not at least getting on a plane and flying to him and spending a couple hours talking about things with him, imo.

 

If after that the end result was it just wasn't a fit so be it. However not even talking to him is maddon-ing!

 

Particularly when your team's offseason base of operations is actually only a two hour car ride away.

 

They sent people to watch and talk to Nick Gordon weekly, and Orlando is twice as far.