Berardino: "No contact" between Twins & Maddon

[JB_Iowa]

I'll personally be happy if its Lovullo and they just needed Pohlad's stamp of approval.

 

Oh, and we'll NEVER hear all the facts, at least not from the Twins.

[Champuckett]

I think if the Twins made some kind of effort to get Maddon and came up short, it would result in disappointment at most. There are those that would state we didn't have a chance in the first place and those that stated we didn't go after him hard enough. That would be the debate and was the debate until we learned the most recent news.

 

Instead, we are currently talking about a GM that has made zero effort, according to reports. This changed the debate to, "who would even want to come to an organization that does not try" or "what the heck is going on in the front office right now?" versus "we are a sad team anyways, so it does not matter in the slightest whether we tried or not" or "we are saving money right now and can't afford to pay a few million more". All sad and defeated remarks to hear. This has resulted in disappointment at the least, and sorrow and dejection for this franchise at most.

 

The latter debate seems about 100x more depressing than the former. There was going to be disappointment no matter how this played out, I was just hoping that would be worse case scenario instead of best case.

[D. Hocking]

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take... and the prom queen isn't going to ask you out.

 

(that is to say, the royal "you," not you specifically :v)

If I only had read this post twenty some years ago, high school could have ended on such a different note.

[big dog]

If I only had read this post twenty some years ago, high school could have ended on such a different note.

Whoever you would have taken a shot at appreciates you not knowing this.

[nicksaviking]

Whoever you would have taken a shot at appreciates you not knowing this.

 

Great, so now our team is the fat kid with a social disorder who spends all his time away from school playing World of Warcraft.

[bird]

Pure speculation, but I find myself wondering if Molitor's "third interview" was to let him know he came in second and if Pohlad's trip out to the east coast was to seal the deal with Lovullo and his agent.

 

I'd be perfectly happy with that.

[James]

Pure speculation, but I find myself wondering if Molitor's "third interview" was to let him know he came in second and if Pohlad's trip out to the east coast was to seal the deal with Lovullo and his agent.

 

I'd be perfectly happy with that.

I can honestly see that being the case.  

 

I could also see the Twins immediately thinking that Maddon was going to be too expensive and just not pursuing the matter.  But, I would be leaning toward that they had already pretty much made up their mind on who the next manager was going to be before Maddon was even available.  

[TheLeviathan]

All this talk of who should be calling who reminds me of a report or interview we had posted here two summers ago about how Ryan goes about trade deadline deals.  Basically Ryan stated that the Twins don't do much soliciting themselves, they wait for other teams to call them for trade offers.  The implication was that the team getting the call generally has the upper hand in negotiations. 

 

I've heard that too and it very much fits our style.  Part of why I've always believed Ryan avoids bad deals is because he's so picky about the situations he puts himself into.  There is something to be said for avoiding crippling mistakes, but there is also a happy medium between that and "gunslinger" mode.

 

Also, for those worried about having "all the facts" - if that is a prerequisite for discussion we might as well all say our goodbyes and shut this puppy down.  There will always be a degree of uncertainty in our discussions, it's the nature of the beast.

[tobi0040]

Pure speculation, but I find myself wondering if Molitor's "third interview" was to let him know he came in second and if Pohlad's trip out to the east coast was to seal the deal with Lovullo and his agent.

 

I'd be perfectly happy with that.

 

I would be happy with Luvollo over Molitor ( think my displeasure of the Maddon situation has been clear). 

 

But you do typically ensure the guy accepts the offer before you tell #2 he didn't get the job.

[D. Hocking]

Great, so now our team is the fat kid with a social disorder who spends all his time away from school playing World of Warcraft.

 

I was not fat.

 

Pure speculation, but I find myself wondering if Molitor's "third interview" was to let him know he came in second and if Pohlad's trip out to the east coast was to seal the deal with Lovullo and his agent.

 

I'd be perfectly happy with that.

 

When all is said and done, while it irritates me if they did not at least make a half-hearted attempt to contact Maddon, I think both Molitor and Lovullo have potential to be great.  Right now I am more in favor of Luvullo than Molitor, but that is more gut than any reasoned rationale.  

[jokin]

Maybe that was when they actually signed the deal. could have been a verbal and a handshake to that point.

Madden came in late and unexpected. I can't fault the Twins, if that is the case.

I need to wait and hear all the facts. 

 

If this were truly the case, this information would have, in all probability, leaked out already.

[jokin]

I was not fat.

 

 

When all is said and done, while it irritates me if they did not at least make a half-hearted attempt to contact Maddon,  

 

Yes.  And even in the small possibility that a deal has already been struck, Maddon- even as merely a professional "courtesy"- still should have been contacted for another prospective role in the organization (as Maddon has publicly stated he was also interested in pursuing).  

 

Some on this thread have said that Terry Ryan's MO has been to prefer dealing with clubs that call him first.  If that's truly the position from which he prefers to negotiate, then contacting Maddon is precisely the way to attract MORE of those calls--->  It can never hurt the organization in the long run when it's made known that they are always willing to pursue the most talented people in the sport.  

 

This was a golden opportunity to change forever a quote like Nerio's about the Twins perceived cheapness from ever being uttered again- and a sad failure from an organization that appears to lack the vigor and drive to leave ineptitude and re-join the ranks of the perennially competitive clubs... and a sense of urgency (the right kind, not panic) to do what must be done to staunch the outflow of season ticket holders refusing to renew.

[Kwak]

After reading this thread I now know why super-hero movies based on comic books are so darn popular.

[JB_Iowa]

Looks strongly likely that Cubs will annoubce a deal this week:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24774053/cubs-talking-to-maddon-and-renteria-has-been-apprised-of-situation

[jokin]

Looks strongly likely that Cubs will annoubce a deal this week:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24774053/cubs-talking-to-maddon-and-renteria-has-been-apprised-of-situation

 

So much for the meme that was proffered on TD that the Rays didn't want Maddon back:

 

 

He made slightly less than $2 million annually in the Rays deal he abandoned, though they were said to have offered him a raise.

[JB_Iowa]

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS  · 11m11 minutes ago   Westminster, CO  
joe maddon to become cubs manager. story up soon at @CBSSports

[Danchat]

According to MLB Trade Rumors, it's a done deal. Maddon is going to be managing the Cubs.

[JB_Iowa]

BTW. I find the way that the Cubs and Maddon's camp have handled this deplorable.  Renteria aside, leaking this on the day of game 7 stinks.   

[brvama]

I have refrained to get into this foray about Maddon until now. From my perspective, those upset that Ryan didn't contact Maddon come down on 2 fronts.  1.) Maddon is the best and is worth every penny he wants.  2.)  It is a PR blunder to not at least contact him, which shows the Twins are cheap.

 

#1.  If Maddon was such a genius of a manager, then why did the Rays struggle this year.  And hasn't there already been quite a  discussion on the value of a manager toward wins.  Maybe 1-2 per year.  Also, there are many candidates in baseball that have the ability to be excellent managers if given the talent.  It appears Maddon has seen the talent dry up in Tampa and wanted out.  (My opinion only.)  

 

Nobody, and I mean nobody, is irreplaceable; including Maddon.

 

#2.  About not contacting him, maybe Ryan, through his contacts with other GM's and baseball executives discounted Maddon as a good match for the Twins.  We, as fans, may like him but the front office has to be sold on him that there can be a good working relationship.  Maybe, he viewed the current finalists as the best ones available.  And to say PR is damaged is really a reference to the fans perception and not so much in baseball circles.  The Twins have been acknowledged as one of the better run clubs in baseball.

 

And to the label of "cheap" - Certain people have viewed the Twins as cheap for quite a while and I doubt anything outside of a payroll of $125 million would ever change that.  But it seems to me that our cheap Twins to pony up some $$$ for pitchers LY.  Call that cheap if you want, I don't.  Before we continue that chorus, maybe we should see what happens in the next year or two first.

 

Finally, whether we like it or not, Maddon was not coming here.  His agent supposedly said as much, according to comments from MLB Trade Rumors.  But reports were that 10-15 clubs were interested in him in some capacity.  Apparently, 15-20 other teams don't think there is a role in their organization either.  

[Linus]

One thing being assumed here is that somehow Maddon's bona fides are without question.  I think there is a very real possibility that TR wasn't nearly as impressed with Maddon as everyone on this board.

 

My own take is this is way overblown.  Take the money that would have been required to get Maddon and put it towards a free agent pitching offer.

[JB_Iowa]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  · 5m5 minutes ago 
Sources: Maddon talking to #Cubs as well as other teams. No deal in place with Cubs - yet.

[Rosterman]

Looks like the word is that Maddon is going with the Cubs. Now the Twins have to decide when to make their announcement so it doesn't get buried with the World Series immediate aftermath, the signing of Maddon by the Cubs, and the many players that get to announce their free agency!

[TheLeviathan]

And to the label of "cheap" - Certain people have viewed the Twins as cheap for quite a while and I doubt anything outside of a payroll of $125 million would ever change that.  But it seems to me that our cheap Twins to pony up some $$$ for pitchers LY.  Call that cheap if you want, I don't.  Before we continue that chorus, maybe we should see what happens in the next year or two first.

 

I'm sorry, but there is 15-20 years of evidence the team is "cheap".  The onus to change that chorus is on the Twins.  And, to their credit, they began that process last offseason, but they have a long way to go to shrug that label.  

[Winston Smith]

While I would have really liked the hiring of Maddon and was not happy they didn't at least talk to him, I lost a lot of respect for him and the Cubs front office for how this turned out if true.  This isn't a very classy way to treat the current manager by the Cubs or Maddon.

[jokin]

One thing being assumed here is that somehow Maddon's bona fides are without question. 

 

I think there is a very real possibility that TR wasn't nearly as impressed with Maddon as everyone on this board.

 

My own take is this is way overblown.  Take the money that would have been required to get Maddon and put it towards a free agent pitching offer.

 

I would posit that the "everyone on this board" have good reasons and reams of evidence to be impressed by Maddon- and can readily see how his talents easily translate to the Twins situation- and based on the huge interest from multiple clubs' GMs around the league- willing to put their money where their mouths are- -even with ZERO job openings confirms those good reasons held by the TD board.  

 

By contrast, for the one team with a manager opening, Ryan has virtually no reason for NOT being impressed by Maddon's abilities- and for all intents and purposes, he's even publicly admitted that Maddon is a huge talent.

[old nurse]

A post by JB_Iowa Friday:

 

Posted 24 October 2014 - 09:38

 

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal · 3m3 minutes ago

Maddon’s agent, Alan Nero, says he contacted several teams after opt-out. Expects 4 to 5 legit suitors. Says Maddon wants to explore FA.

If the agent contacted 4-5 teams and the agent says there was no contact with the Twins, it would seem that Maddon or the agent are not interested in the Twins.

[jokin]

If the agent contacted 4-5 teams and the agent says there was no contact with the Twins, it would seem that Maddon or the agent are not interested in the Twins.

 

The agent also said Maddon would welcome an inquiry from the Twins.

[Tuba]

If it's true that the Twins have not even made a phone call to his agent then I move from a Terry Ryan supporter to a fire Terry Ryan supporter. Does it hurt to call a guy with a history of getting results out of young talent on a small market team? 

[DaNutz]

The agent also said Maddon would welcome an inquiry from the Twins.

 

At this point with the news that he is already the Cubs manager before the job is even available it would seem the Twins had zero shot and probably already knew it.  I don't think Maddon opted out without some at least off the record plans in motion.

[JB_Iowa]

Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino  · 1m1 minute ago 
Source w/direct knowledge believes no #MNTwins mgr offers have been made: "The ball is in the Twins’ court. Have heard nothing." #Day31