Article: A Plan For Pinto

[bird]

Do we know Vargas can't play first? Who would be a better overall player in LF than Mauer for the next two years or so (combination hitting and fielding)?

We may not know, but I think the Twins certainly know he can't play an adequate 1B over the course of a season. And they can fairly easily go outside the organization for a better overall solution than Mauer for a corner OF. Hell, maybe they could find a cheap Cuban.

[bird]

Vargas plays first, Pinto is the DH and backup catcher and Joe moves to LF. Joe certainly can play out there as well as Willy or Delmon  did.

I don't know, Winston, but my gut tells me we've just established mediocrity or much worse at three positions, which seems like the perfect recipe for another year of [bad] baseball.

 

Edited by glunn to replace "c" word with "bad".

[Mike Sixel]

I admit to liking the watcher of bird's posts the last couple of days......

 

I have no idea if Vargas can field. I am pretty sure Mauer could play LF as well as any LFer they are likely to have on the roster next year (that can actually hit). Unless Hicks can learn to hit, and they play him in LF (which is what I would do if they don't sign a good player).

[John Kelsey]

Kurt Suzuki in August

 

.238/.294/.349/.643

 

The guy is too old to ride him this hard.

Some of it may be them riding him too hard, but most of it is him not being nearly as good offensively as he showed in the first half. 

[Platoon]

Since the question was what would "you" do with Pinto, this could be considered a moot point...... But since TR has more or less nixed 3 catchers, and RG won't DH a catcher, the part time catcher and DH idea are not gonna happen. They should but won't. And if Twins pitchers love to pitch to Kurt, they should show that love by staying out there with him past the 5th inning! Or does sitting next to him in the dugout count? Lastly, will Perkins opinion of Josmil define his entire career? That's a lot of blame for someone who did not block a slider in the dirt!

[Steve Penz]

How bad is Pinto's defense?  All I am aware of is that Perkins did not like pitching to him.  How can it be so bad that he would not be considered for a b/u spot for next year?  History has shown what too many games in one season can do to Suzuki; he is human.  If they catch him more that 100 games I think they are asking for trouble.  Keep Pinto as #2 and a RH pinch hitter.  I don't understand if it is between somebody like Friar or Hermann and Pinto, how does Pinto not get the nod?  

[Dantes929]

I'm not sure that's true.

Mauer has one error on the year and has shown pretty good range helped by his size. I know a lot more is involved than just errors. Range and also number of bad throws that are scooped or flagged down enter into it. Let me rephrase though. Joe has a fielding % of .999 which is as good or better than every gold glover in the history of the award except for Youkalis in 2007. For example, last year's Gold Glove winner had 8 errors and 6 or 7 errors is common for GG winners. Mauer has one. It is the best fielding % of all 1st basemen in all of baseball that have played more than 30 games. Not bad for his 1st year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Because it is a defensive downgrade at two positions. Mauer would be a minus at LF and Vargas a minus at 1B. Mauer is a plus at 1B and Vargas is best suited to DH.

That is true, but the gains/losses from defense at 1B are pretty minor. I think the positional/roster flexibilty gains more than cancel it out if you're only doing it 60 games a season or so.

[Dantes929]

Not impressed by Escobar's glove at all this last series so am still thinking Santana will have that spot for the future but if Hicks, Rosario or Kepler don't develop I would want Santana out there for his speed and arm. Either way I would not want Mauer and Arcia out there at the same time so Mauer sticks at 1st. If Pinto is a better hitter than Vargas then DH, pinch hitter, backup catcher makes sense. If he is not a better hitter than Vargas then pinch hitter, backup catcher still makes sense. Don't we want a strong bench? I would never platoon Arcia and Pinto but a platoon of Arcia and Hicks would make sense.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't know, Winston, but my gut tells me we've just established mediocrity or much worse at three positions, which seems like the perfect recipe for another year of crappy baseball.

I wouldn't advocate Pinto to DH, Mauer to LF, Vargas to 1B full time, but I think it is perfectly acceptable for 50 games a season or whatever, until/unless we get a better LF option.

[Willihammer]

Final offer - Mauer to LF, Pinto to 1B, Vargas to DH. Defensive improvement in LF, 1B, while getting around the backup catcher / DH problem.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I like the idea of solving LF by putting Mauer there.  I think he'd be a pretty good one.  I don't mind Pinto getting some 1B time, perhaps to spell Parmelee in your situation, though I still think Pinto should be catching. 

[bird]

I wouldn't advocate Pinto to DH, Mauer to LF, Vargas to 1B full time, but I think it is perfectly acceptable for 50 games a season or whatever, until/unless we get a better LF option.

Yeah, I buy that for sure. Still hoping for an overpay for Pinto this winter.

[savvyspy]

Mauer has A LOT of work to do to become an average first baseman. He is not even close to a plus defensively. With his arm he may have a better chance of being better defensively in the OF than he ever will be at 1B.

 

I would use Pinto as a C/DH, Vargas as a DH/1B and Mauer as a 1B/OF. Suzuki is likely to revert back to his mean and shouldn't be catching as much as he has. Eric Fryer is a AAAA option at best.

[WLFINN]

Has Pinto ever played 1B?

[Willihammer]

Has Pinto ever played 1B?

14 games way back in 2006

[WLFINN]

Which would be easier, or which would Pinto be less of a liability, LF or 1B?  Or is that hard to determine?

[James Richter]

A big reason why the Twins have been so terrible the past 4 seasons is that their bench and AAA depth has been sub-replacement level. Starters get hurt, and even when healthy need regular days off. Even assuming he plays every game for the remainder of the season, Mauer will have averaged just 123 games played over the past 6 seasons. It is not a smart bet that his durability will significantly improve as he gets deeper into his 30's. It is also not a smart bet that Suzuki will be a productive player for more than 100 starts behind the plate. Remember what happened to Parmelee after his terrific 1st month of MLB experience when he came straight up from AA? That could happen to Vargas, too.

 

Between C & DH there should be at least 90 starts available for Pinto in 2015, and he'd be a great PH option in the other games when they bring the LOOGY in to face Arcia. Next year's team is better with him on it.

[Dantes929]

Mauer has A LOT of work to do to become an average first baseman. He is not even close to a plus defensively. With his arm he may have a better chance of being better defensively in the OF than he ever will be at 1B.

 

I would use Pinto as a C/DH, Vargas as a DH/1B and Mauer as a 1B/OF. Suzuki is likely to revert back to his mean and shouldn't be catching as much as he has. Eric Fryer is a AAAA option at best.

Can you elaborate on that? He makes ALL of the routine plays. As I pointed out before he has the best fielding % in all of baseball for 1st basemen. I have seen him stretched out making nice plays. His throws to 2nd have been great and his height makes him a great target. He is easily at least average defensively so I will disregard that comment. Where is he lacking in your opinion that is keeping him from being considered elite?

[tobi0040]

I like the idea of solving LF by putting Mauer there.  I think he'd be a pretty good one.  I don't mind Pinto getting some 1B time, perhaps to spell Parmelee in your situation, though I still think Pinto should be catching. 

 

Agreed. Athletic and good arm.  The Twins will laugh that off, then roll with Willingham, Arcia types.

[Boom Boom]

Mauer was rather rough at first base for a while.  I think he had to adjust to the instincts of the position - I saw him many times go after ground balls that he needs to let the 2nd baseman get, among other things.  He's been much better recently.

 

I do think it's kind of a waste to keep an athlete of Mauer's caliber at first base.

[Otto von Ballpark]

It is also not a smart bet that Suzuki will be a productive player for more than 100 starts behind the plate.

Yup.  Dealing Pinto would drop our 2015 catcher depth to 2011 levels (with an older/worse projected MLB starter, to boot), and we all remember how that went.

[Rosterman]

Pinto will get some reps behind the plate as Suzucki rests, but I wouldn't put it past the Twins to even start Pinto at Rochester next season. He is the man if Suz gets injured and needs to be prepared for that role and possibly to take over behind-the-plate 3/4 time in 2016. Duz can still be traded out of his contract next year, or for sure the year after that, even as a waiver wire claim. Is Pinto ready, no. Not to be the main guy. Is anyone in the system going to be fulltime ready by 2017 or 2018...doubt that, too.

 

Vargas has worked himself into the DH jibm switching out with Mauer hopefully in 2016 getting reps at first. And Parmelee is still a 2015 bench/PF/1B option, so Pinto would sit and play 30% of the time.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Pinto will get some reps behind the plate as Suzucki rests, but I wouldn't put it past the Twins to even start Pinto at Rochester next season.

I actually wouldn't mind that, I suppose, if Pinto was actually playing a lot of catcher in AAA and could honestly expect to assume a good share of MLB catching duties in the near future.  Does not appear to have been the case this year...

[dgwills]

I don't know, Winston, but my gut tells me we've just established mediocrity or much worse at three positions, which seems like the perfect recipe for another year of [bad] baseball.

 

Edited by glunn to replace "c" word with "bad".

I can't believe you threw down the "c" word for that. That's out of control    It really doesn't make sense though. 

As far as Pinto goes, I don't know what I'd do with him. With where his defense is he can only be a back up catcher and bench bat. Gardy doesn't like to play him that way though. The only option is to trade him or get a new manager.

[RedBull34]

I've always thought that the one position begging for a Platoon is C.  It's a position that mandates giving up PA's to rest anyways...

 

I realize finding a solid lefty catcher is difficult but they are out there.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The best plan for Pinto at this point is to let him just be the backup. I've seen zero from Fryer. However it seems to me like native spanish speaking catchers fall out of favor when they reach the Twins big club. Morales, Ramos, now Pinto. That's the best explanation I got.

[LaBombo]

Wait.  Which "C word"?  Scrapbooking profanity both alphabetically and with Dewey decimal system, so it's important to know.

Edited August 26, 2014 by LaBombo

[LaBombo]

I've always thought that the one position begging for a Platoon is C.  It's a position that mandates giving up PA's to rest anyways...

 

I realize finding a solid lefty catcher is difficult but they are out there.

Good point, and it doesn't need to be a conventional left/right platoon.  If you have a solid 'everyday' catcher who hits right-handed, a right-handed platoon partner who mashes lefties or has a laser arm can situationally maximize the days off depending on the opponent.

 

At any rate, 'backup' catcher is setting at least a semantic, if not philosophical, low bar for a player who is guaranteed 40 starts right out of the gate, with injury subbing and pinch hitting probably pushing that aggregate game total north of a third of a season.  "Part-time starter" is a more accurate title.

[ScottyB]

I said this elsewhere.  This is the same age that Willingham was when he switched from catcher to LF. I don't see Pinto as any less coordinated than the Hammer.  Let him play some outfield in winter ball and see if he's good enough (and maybe some 1B as well).  If you can give him time at C, LF, 1B and DH next year, it would be worth it and he would spell Vargas, Mauer, Suzuki and whoever our regular LF will be and get his bat in on a regular basis.

Edited August 26, 2014 by ScottyB