Twins Options at Shortstop in 2022

I am not saying he should be resigned for 2022, but I don’t quite understand all the dislike for Simmons.  He was not signed for offense, as he has not ever really contributed much of that even in his prime.  He does make the infield defense better.  Consider that he has played with two poor (Arraez, Austudillo) fielders, two ok (Polanco, Sano) fielders and a gimpy Donaldson.

The best young shortstops are not available. Tattis, Bichette and Adames are the young shortstops. The listed free agents are getting to the point they will be past their prime with a long term deal. Look how quick so many middle infielders have dropped performance after 30. They may all be looking for that big payday but I don’t think anyone will go much more than 3 or 4 years

Polanco at SS in 2022

The starting lineup could be:

1. Martin LF

2. Arraez 2B

3. Polanco SS

4. Buxton CF

5. Kiriloff 1B

6. Sano DH

7. Garver C

8. Kepler RF

9. Miranda 3B

Bench: Rooker, Jeffers, Gordon, Larnach

Move Donaldson. (I could see moving Kepler too and starting Larnach and have Celestino be on the bench).

SPs: Maeda plus Jax, Ober, and the rest of the prospects. See who shines. 

Use the cash to begin building a lock down pen.

This team obviously won’t win it all in 2022, but they should be competitive and will set the table for success in 2023 and beyond. 

46 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

That is a terrible infield defense. Yuck. Run prevention matters. 

I see your point. But if Lewis is indeed targeted to be our SS in 2023, I’d prefer not to spend the cash on an expensive stop gap. No more $10.5MM for Simmons deals for me.

Simmons. He has a lot to prove and teams aren't going to be willing to give him the $$$ he wants. Plus, he can mentor our young prospects as they come up this next year. He may not hit, but that has never been his strong suit. That is not why we signed him. He has the best glove in the league. 

59 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd rather take the chance Lewis works out, and have a great SS signed, than Lewis isn't really good in 2023..... Do people expect him to be good in his first full year in the majors?

They aren't signing two expensive starting pitchers, imo. They probably don't need a third baseman, second baseman, first baseman, catcher, or outfielder...... And Donaldson comes off the books in two years. 

I guess Buxton and an elite pitcher is possible.... But I'd rather sign a SS and Buxton and one great SP.... Which they can afford. I understand others don't agree, and I'm ok with that.

Step one is Buxton. Step two is move Donaldson - he’s a sunk cost - sure it’s cash if we have to pay all or part of his salary, but that ship has sailed and not worth preventing the growth of other players for the future. So after steps one and two, they could certainly still afford a solid #2 SP in 2023 and a SS.  However, a shut down pen is where it’s at in the modern game and I’d be willing to let this team gestate for a year, including seeing how Lewis’ 2022 goes, before prioritizing a SS over the pen. But I definitely see your point. 
 

6 hours ago, bean5302 said:

The Twins have moved on from Gordon. He's not even playing SS in AAA anymore, he's being used as an IF/OF utility guy. He's not going to get a 40 man roster spot. 0% 

Austin Martin couldn't supplant Palacios at SS. 0% 

Jose Miranda hasn't played any significant time at SS since 2016. 0% 

Jorge Polanco. Yeah, I could see the Twins shifting him back over to SS despite being the worst fielding shortstop in the game in the past 20 years. 40%

Royce Lewis. It would be totally bonkers to make him opening day shortstop. Lewis is a prospect who wasn't even treading water at AA at the plate while being absolutely a nightmare in the field in his last full competition experience 2 years ago and is now rehabbing a full tear of his ACL. 0%

JT Riddle. Yeah. MiLB roster filler entering his second year or arbitration eligibility isn't happening. 0%. 

Drew Maggi? He's arbitration eligible next year so he'll be non-tendered. 0%

Jermaine Palacios. I have no idea on this one. He's one of the best SS at AA this year and certainly top 3 who is still sitting in AA despite the fact the Twins have nothing blocking him or on the roster. I really expect the Twins to leave him off the roster. 5%

Andrelton Simmons. LOL all you want, everything seems to point to Simmons being back next year IMHO. He's still playing every day and the Twins haven't even bothered to look at Palacios despite a stellar performance in AA. It's ridiculous, but I can't see why the Twins would be playing Simmons every day at this point if they hadn't decided this year is a fluke and they'll be ohhhhhhh so smart when they sign him for peanuts and they fix him to return him to top form next year... puke. 50%

I think bean has revealed the sad truth here 

7 hours ago, Brandon said:

I think it comes down to Buxton.  Resign him the resign Simmons or Iglesias to be a defense first SS on the cheap till our prospects are ready.  Trade Buxton cause he won't sign.  Then sign an expensive SS who will produce.  We don't need too many holes in the lineup while we fix the pitching staff.

I wanted to add they are or were playing both Lewis and Austin at both SS and CF so 1 of those positions have to give for the upcoming prospects when they are ready.  That would make this about resigning Buxton.  Resign Buxton you sign a cheap SS and let Austin and Lewis replace him when they come up.  Or you trade Buxton and sign an expensive SS and use Lewis and Austin in CF. Good inexpensive SS could be Story but I Think Simmons could be a great teacher and backup player when Lewis and Austin are ready.  I am sure there are other SS options for most of a season.  

I agree that Buxton’s situation would have an impact on how they look at SS free agents this year.

Not sure how anyone would draw the conclusion that the Twins see Gordon as a major league SS. They played him there 2 games of the 38 he had with the big club…and it’s not like Simmons was demanding at bats with his performance.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they end up rostering Palacios. I’d put him at more like 20%.

8 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Polanco at SS in 2022

The starting lineup could be:

1. Martin LF

2. Arraez 2B

3. Polanco SS

4. Buxton CF

5. Kiriloff 1B

6. Sano DH

7. Garver C

8. Kepler RF

9. Miranda 3B

Bench: Rooker, Jeffers, Gordon, Larnach

Move Donaldson. (I could see moving Kepler too and starting Larnach and have Celestino be on the bench).

SPs: Maeda plus Jax, Ober, and the rest of the prospects. See who shines. 

Use the cash to begin building a lock down pen.

This team obviously won’t win it all in 2022, but they should be competitive and will set the table for success in 2023 and beyond. 

 

You really want the Twins to lose .

14 hours ago, theBOMisthebomb said:

Why isn't Nick Gordon playing everyday with the Twins? As much as I love and admire Tortuga, Gordon needs to replace him and then play regularly with the Twins. Let's get a free six week look at what we have. 

That is what the minor league is for; not dumping on paying spectators in major league games.

1 minute ago, bean5302 said:

I know you bring this up... but Saints games are more expensive than Twins games right now so by this logic, shouldn't the Saints be demanding the Twins demote players so the paying customers can get their money's worth?

The analogy is a Straw-man argument, I will leave it at that.

2 hours ago, RpR said:

You really want the Twins to lose .

Nope, I just realize that the Twins are mid market team at best that has probably lost $100MM in cash over the past two seasons. We just can’t expect to sign every FA that you think is the flavour of the day.

The key is to build a strong team with a lot of league minimum contract controlled players then add the key FAs that might make a difference. Hopefully more Cruz than Donaldson.

Who don’t you like in this lineup?  Donaldson (one leg $20+MM) over Miranda?  Cave over Martin? Another Simmons at $10MM over Polanco and Arraez playing every day?  We have 13 or more potential SP prospects - should we get them some innings next year or sign a few more retread FAs?  Are you happy with the pen? Do you disagree that a shut down pen is critical in the modern game of 3-2 counts and 5 inning 90+ pitch starters?

No mention of Freddy Galvis? I see him as an ideal fit for next year.

I am baffled that the Twins are (WERE) banking on Royce Lewis, a .236 hitter in AA, to jump to the majors and fill the SS role.  Whatever...  We got what we paid for in Simmons, and he's done a good job at that position this year.  He's gotten a few key hits and is a gold-glove fielder.  $18M would not have been too much to pay for Marcus Semien, but the Twins made a decision to fill spots as cheaply as possible.  I doubt that will change.

To me, this article loses all credibility when you mention José Iglesias as a possible signing at SS, but LOL Simmons.  Yes, Simmons has no offense and Iglesias has some, but this year Iglesias has a -21 runs saved per 1,200 innings.  Simmons is plus 13.  Simmons has a positive WAR of 1.  Iglesias has a -.07.  I am fine wanting upgrade over Simmons, but Iglesias is not an upgrade at SS.  

Pry Taylor Walls away from the Rays. Franco is the Ray's shortstop of the now and future which moved Walls back to AAA.  Could possibly hold down the Twin's shortstop position for a few years. Switch hitter with a decent bat, decent speed, decent glove. can take a walk and get on base. A 3rd round pick in 2017 out of Florida St. U, Walls has moved up the minor league ladder each season holding down the shortstop position at each stop. Could be a nice player for the Twins.

I wasn't talking about next year. My comment could have been "there's nothing new under the sun..."  I don't see the Twins as serious contenders on the field or bidders in building their team.  Banking on Royce Lewis was just one example.

19 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd rather take the chance Lewis works out, and have a great SS signed, than Lewis isn't really good in 2023..... Do people expect him to be good in his first full year in the majors?

They aren't signing two expensive starting pitchers, imo. They probably don't need a third baseman, second baseman, first baseman, catcher, or outfielder...... And Donaldson comes off the books in two years. 

I guess Buxton and an elite pitcher is possible.... But I'd rather sign a SS and Buxton and one great SP.... Which they can afford. I understand others don't agree, and I'm ok with that.

I am 100% with you on this one.  The young SPs have looked like they can more than hold their own.  I would much rather have one really good SP than a couple Pineda / Happ types.  Give me Rodon (or similar) plus Maeda and 3 of Ober / Jax / Barnes / Ryan / Winder to start the season and we should do quite well.  Balazovic / Duran waiting in the wings with SWR / Enlow and Canterino not far behind.  A couple of these guys are going to end up booting our BP nicely.

Polanco needs to stay at 2B.  SS would be a good free agent investment but I could also see trading Arraez for a SS that is being blocked elsewhere.  Miranda could fill that role next year and eventually replace Donaldson.  Really hope they can come to terms with Buxton.  We might not be a true contender in 2022 with these moves but we will be close and should be in the thick of it in 2023.  That's a nice rebound.