The Return of Mike Pelfrey

[Shane Wahl]

I don't think I am crazy in the thread I just started about what is going on in the mind of TR.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

Hendriks is 5 years younger with no such health issues and a comparable K rate. Certainly a better k/bb rate without actually looking.

 

Anyway, yes, I will go on the record as saying that I would prefer the Twins give the 5th starter role to Liam Hendriks at $500K than Mike Pelfrey at $4-5 million.

 

Shane you make way to much sense. I wish there was a like button. Hendriks still has the potential to be something decent. Honestly though I think he is so deep in Gardys doghouse that he might not be able to pitch his way out...even with Pelfrey like stats.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

I really wasnt putting them in any particular order. With Ryan in charge, I think Garza and Pelfrey is the best we can hope for, and I dont think he'll do that much.

 

Sad but probably true....

[Marta Shearing]

I just puked in my mouth reading this. Sure Pelfrey as a #5 starter....but he is not going to be considered our #5 starter...he will be considered our #2....gross. C'MON MAN!

Good grief. I put the two free agent signings at the top. And lets be real, do you honestly have hope Ryan will do better than Garza and Pelfrey? My expectations of ryan are so low I'd be stunned if he even accomplished that.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

Good grief. I put the two free agent signings at the top. And lets be real, do you honestly have hope Ryan will do better than Garza and Pelfrey? My expectations of ryan are so low I'd be stunned if he even accomplished that.

 

No in another post i just agreed that Ryan probably wont even sign Garza?.... If they only sign Garza and keep Pelfrey this offseason is definitely a failure.

[DaveW]

Most fan bases would be pretty happy if their GM went out and signed the top FA pitcher on the market. Sheesh rough crowd.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Very tough crowd. Although I'd say Ryan's in a situation of his own making and he's going to have people on edge (including Pohlad) until he lands the big fish.

[freshinthehouse]

Don't mind bringing back Pelfrey as long as the money is right, and they still add another starter (Tanaka or Hughes, please).

[TheLeviathan]

For all the hate he is getting, Pelfrey lead the staff last year.......

 

This argument feels like someone saying they're the best hockey player in Mexico......Congratulations?

[Alex]

You have to admire Ryan as a man of his word...this is definitely not a short cut.

 

Maybe more worrisome is the possibility in the rumor that they are underwhelming Pelfrey. If he wants and expects more, how are they going to attract better pitchers?

[SpitefulRabbit617]

Signing a 37 year old virgin (to Target Field/AL) with a 3 year is far more infuriating than someone still recovering from/working back from Tommy John. Pelfry has at least spent a year here and would be a cheap cut compared to Arroyo if he went Jason Marquis on us.

[071063]

Interesting argument between Shane Wahl and SpiritofVodkaDave. Typically, I don't agree with either one of you as you both seem to think you have way more knowledge then you really do. However, in this case, SpiritofVodkaDave was the clear winner of the argument and actually confessed that Terry Ryan might be a better GM than he would be, so maybe I misjudged you SpiritofVodkaDave. I'll read your posts with more of an open mind for a while.

[Steve Penz]

Yesterday Nick Nelson made the point that Pelfrey is the guy you sign in February as a late pick up. Last year that same point was made about Correa. I am ok with those signings if they come during the right time of the year when other efforts have been made first. Both of those guys can play a good role on the right staff. It is just really hard to understand this move now. Ryan seems to never to give any thought to the perception held by his fanbase. I would love to have been fly on the wall when somebody in the organization said, "Have we thought about how this move is going to be perceived by the public?" Is Ryan hearing that? In no way will I advocate that an executive of a business should have public opinion as his/her top priority but it has to be in there someplace. Why sign Pelfrey now?

[DaveW]

You have to admire Ryan as a man of his word...this is definitely not a short cut.

 

Maybe more worrisome is the possibility in the rumor that they are underwhelming Pelfrey. If he wants and expects more, how are they going to attract better pitchers?

I don't find it worrisome at all, it's just how negotiations go in general, just because they need pitching big time doesn't mean Ryan should go out and start making bad deals (overpaying) left and right.

 

The amount they are offering Pelfrey have really no effect on what they might offer a Garza type.

[DaveW]

Ryan seems to never to give any thought to the perception held by his fanbase. I would love to have been fly on the wall when somebody in the organization said, "Have we thought about how this move is going to be perceived by the public?" Is Ryan hearing that? In no way will I advocate that an executive of a business should have public opinion as his/her top priority but it has to be in there someplace. Why sign Pelfrey now?

Ryan shouldn't worry himself how the casual fan will react with a signing like this, his job is to put the best product on the field for 2014/2015 moving forward. Not satisfy a bunch of people on a message board day in and day out during an off-season.

 

The reality is, it will be at least another month or two before we can even begin to start making "grades" about an off-season (which still will be incomplete). If the Twins like Pelfrey better than the other options in his "class" (i.e. the 5-6 mil a year pitchers) then there is zero reason to wait until later to sign him (just like how signing Correia was the right decision last year, and was proven later)

 

Signing Pelfrey doesn't stop them from signing ANYONE at this point, it's not like the rotation is suddenly full at that point.

[DaveW]

This argument feels like someone saying they're the best hockey player in Mexico......Congratulations?

 

Listen, the reality is the Twins aren't going to bring in 5 brand new pitchers outside the org for 2014, they aren't going to bring 4, so you are going to have to use some guys that were around in 2013, Pelfrey, for better or worse showed flashes and out performed some of the other internal options (and has a better track record than most of them)

[Mike Sixel]

The same article states that they either lied to the public when they said they'd be willing to forfeit their 2nd round pick, or they changed their mind, because they are are telling agents they will not do that.

[TheLeviathan]

Listen, the reality is the Twins aren't going to bring in 5 brand new pitchers outside the org for 2014, they aren't going to bring 4, so you are going to have to use some guys that were around in 2013, Pelfrey, for better or worse showed flashes and out performed some of the other internal options (and has a better track record than most of them)

 

The biggest problem is that all your arguments seemed predicated on a salary that I think is a ridiculous underestimatw. Double your 3M (minimum) and then reassess. Pelfreyis a guaranteed rotation spot if signed. I'd rather not do that until the superior options sign here or elsewhere.

[howieramone1406390264]

The same article states that they either lied to the public when they said they'd be willing to forfeit their 2nd round pick, or they changed their mind, because they are are telling agents they will not do that.

 

Before you call someone a liar, don't you think it would be best to have better than 3rd or 4th hand info. Terry Ryan is one of the most honorable people in baseball, even if our favorite team has lost 90+ games 3 years in a row.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I have a personal dislike of Pelfrey's pitching style so that taints my view of this offer.

 

Looking at it objectively, there is good reason to suspect that Pelfrey will pitch better in 2014 and is actually a pretty decent "buy low" candidate.

 

On the other hand, I'm really tired of contact pitchers. Even signing one that looks to rebound leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's also why I'm meh on Arroyo (also his age).

 

If the Twins exit this offseason with Pelfrey and one of Garza, Arroyo, or Santana to bolster the rotation, it won't be a bad offseason. I won't be crazy about it but it's not enough to call for the firing of Ryan, a guy who has done a pretty stellar job turning this farm system into best-in-class.

 

But if the Twins don't get a guy like Garza to complement Pelfrey, then yeah, this offseason is a massive failure.

[Marta Shearing]

Signing Garza and Pelfrey would exceed my expectations. Whats wrong with Garza, Gibson, Deduno, Correia, Pelfrey? With Meyer up by June and May not far behind. From Pelfrey I think they'll get 200 innings and a sub 4 era.

[nicksaviking]

Listen, the reality is the Twins aren't going to bring in 5 brand new pitchers outside the org for 2014, they aren't going to bring 4, so you are going to have to use some guys that were around in 2013, Pelfrey, for better or worse showed flashes and out performed some of the other internal options (and has a better track record than most of them)

 

Yes but Pelfrey is also a free agent, so it's not like the Twins are just going back to the stable to fill out the rotation. If signed they would be going out of their way to do so; it would be just as easy to sign a different free agent pitcher.

 

I don't want Pelfrey back, and certainly not at prices higher than he received last year. That being said, in all honesty if Pelfrey was a terrible pitcher for a different team last year, my interest level in him would probably range somewhere between "Blah" and "Mildly Piqued" simply because I'd be curious about a bounce back season.

 

Still, I want other options. Part of my disinterest is based on the fear that he would be considered the second best pitcher brought in this offseason which would be unacceptable. The other part would be that this just seems like more evidence that Ryan refuses to leave his comfort zone filled with familiar faces.

 

But nothing has happened, maybe the Twins really lowballed him and have no plans on increasing the offer.

[Mike Sixel]

Before you call someone a liar, don't you think it would be best to have better than 3rd or 4th hand info. Terry Ryan is one of the most honorable people in baseball, even if our favorite team has lost 90+ games 3 years in a row.

 

I think I was pretty clear that they EITHER lied, or changed their mind. Not sure how to be more clear on that.

[Boom Boom]

For me it's not so much about stats, although I wish that the FAs the Twins make offers to weren't so frequently "buy-low, bounce back" candidates.

 

If the Twins sign Pelfrey again, I'd be bothered that their offseason plan seems to be to re-up and reward the same cast of characters that contributed to the pitiful 2013 team (Gardenhire, Anderson, and Pelfrey).

[Steve Penz]

Signing Garza and Pelfrey would exceed my expectations. Whats wrong with Garza, Gibson, Deduno, Correia, Pelfrey? With Meyer up by June and May not far behind. From Pelfrey I think they'll get 200 innings and a sub 4 era.

 

Nothing. This would be fantastic. Sub 4? That might be a stretch.

[stupidloser55]

I'm surprised at all the disbelief in this thread about the Twins bringing back Pelfrey.

 

I'd like to believe that Ryan has tried to entice other pitchers. I'd like to think he hasn't made an offer to anyone because he's had enough discussions to know that it's going to take 'X' and they are only willing to spend 'Y' so making an offer is pointless. Plus, just to illustrate, look at Dan Haren. He wanted to go back closer to his home. There was just no way the Twins or a team east of Arizona was going to get him unless they were going to pay stupid money.

 

Here is what I'm getting at. Pelfrey isn't a great option. I think we all agree on that. But the reality is that Diamond can't get a right handed hitter out at any level and even lefties hit the snot out of the ball off him last year. I thought I had heard towards the end of the season that they were going to move him out of the rotation similar to what they did with Duensing. So that leaves at most, Gibson, Deduno, and Correia. We've seen how terrible Swarzak and Hendriks are so those guys are not really options in the rotation anymore. Besides, Swarzak might have found a career as a relief option.

 

Meyer and May aren't probably going to get called up until June. Who knows what Worley will do and even if he showed some signs of being able to pitch effectively again, that's still only our third starter to pair up with Correia and Deduno. We need more arms. If guys like Arroyo, Garza, and Nolasco aren't coming, then get what you can get. I'm not even remotely excited about a rotation of say, Correia, Pelfrey, Deduno, Gibson, and whoever else, but if that's what they can sign then so be it.

 

If they could find a way to trade for someone like Bailey, Samarskad;adas;lkjaf, Hellickson, sure, great. But at what cost? I'm not willing to part with anyone like Sano, Buxton, May, or Meyers for any of those pitchers. I probably wouldn't part with Barreiors or Stewart either. Those are our 7 best prospects. They have to be the future of the team for 2015-2017.

[DaveW]

The biggest problem is that all your arguments seemed predicated on a salary that I think is a ridiculous underestimatw. Double your 3M (minimum) and then reassess. Pelfreyis a guaranteed rotation spot if signed. I'd rather not do that until the superior options sign here or elsewhere.

 

Did I say 3M anywhere? I think i was saying 2 years at 5-6 mil per season. (I'd also prefer a team option for 7 million (500k buyout) for the 3rd year, in the case that he turns it around.

 

Pelfrey is only a guaranteed rotation spot for the first few months of 2014 if he signs, the overall contract wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to shed (ala Marquis, Blackburn etc)

 

That's the nice thing about Pelfrey vs a guy like Arroyo, if he sucks/regresses you eat a third of the money.

[bird]

I would bet a good deal of posters here could do the job better. Unfortunately not one of us will ever get that chance.

 

Do you REALLY believe this? Wow.

[howieramone1406390264]

I'm surprised at all the disbelief in this thread about the Twins bringing back Pelfrey.

 

I'd like to believe that Ryan has tried to entice other pitchers. I'd like to think he hasn't made an offer to anyone because he's had enough discussions to know that it's going to take 'X' and they are only willing to spend 'Y' so making an offer is pointless. Plus, just to illustrate, look at Dan Haren. He wanted to go back closer to his home. There was just no way the Twins or a team east of Arizona was going to get him unless they were going to pay stupid money.

 

Here is what I'm getting at. Pelfrey isn't a great option. I think we all agree on that. But the reality is that Diamond can't get a right handed hitter out at any level and even lefties hit the snot out of the ball off him last year. I thought I had heard towards the end of the season that they were going to move him out of the rotation similar to what they did with Duensing. So that leaves at most, Gibson, Deduno, and Correia. We've seen how terrible Swarzak and Hendriks are so those guys are not really options in the rotation anymore. Besides, Swarzak might have found a career as a relief option.

 

Meyer and May aren't probably going to get called up until June. Who knows what Worley will do and even if he showed some signs of being able to pitch effectively again, that's still only our third starter to pair up with Correia and Deduno. We need more arms. If guys like Arroyo, Garza, and Nolasco aren't coming, then get what you can get. I'm not even remotely excited about a rotation of say, Correia, Pelfrey, Deduno, Gibson, and whoever else, but if that's what they can sign then so be it.

 

If they could find a way to trade for someone like Bailey, Samarskad;adas;lkjaf, Hellickson, sure, great. But at what cost? I'm not willing to part with anyone like Sano, Buxton, May, or Meyers for any of those pitchers. I probably wouldn't part with Barreiors or Stewart either. Those are our 7 best prospects. They have to be the future of the team for 2015-2017.

 

Good job on your first post!

[iTwins]

As long as Pelfrey isn't the best arm the Twins sign this winter, I'm fine with bringing him back. He's a perfectly serviceable back of the rotation guy. At the right price, go for it - just don't back off of Garza, Arroyo, Nolasco et. all because you signed Pelfrey.