stupidloser55

This off-season has gone about as well as you could hope given their history. I'd love to see Kazmir and Pierzynski under the tree before Christmas too.

Nolasco 4/70

There isn't a huge reason to give up a top level prospect to get Bailey when you can get him as a F/A next year. The Twins have plenty of capacity to shell out money for Garza right now, and then after next season we'll shed $19M by having Willingham, Doumit, Correia, and Burton come off the payroll. That's the money they can use to sign Bailey. They would just have to hope they can sell him on coming here.

And that's what I'm getting at too, spycake. If we are punting 2014, which I feel like we probably are, then I'm not going to get all riled up over Pelfrey and or Arroyo being our main signings. I'm 100% with you that I too would like to see TR spend some dollars but, at the sake of sounding repetitive, I'm OK if he's not doing it because the players just don't want to come here (which we don't know) or, and again I hate saying wait til next year, but if the plan is to just completely open the coffers for 2015. Then I'd be OK with all this. In the meantime I don't really have a choice but to try and convince myself otherwise My 2015 Wish List: 1.) Homer Bailey 2.) JJ Hardy 3.) Billy Butler

I'm not saying I agree with it. But, but, given who is in charge (TR) and what I'm speculating may be happening, I'm OK with it. I don't have a choice. So I'm trying rationalize and understand what might be happening. If it were my team, or my money, I'd have tried to find a way to sign Peralta at SS, AJ at Catcher, and preferably Garza. That would add around $50M per year to our payroll, getting us near $100M spot for 2014. That would have solved a huge hole at SS and the lineup, AJ gets us some much needed veteran leadership and fire, and Garza would give us a front end pitcher we don't currently have.

You post with the assumption that some of these other players want to sign here. We don't know that. Put yourself in the position of say, Nolasco or Garza. The Twins will give you, again, just for argument sake, 4/60. But so will 2-4 other teams, who are much better than the Twins are, and maybe they are even in better areas of the country. Where would you sign? Now assume that to get those players, the Twins have to overpay by 20%. Are either of those guys worth 4/72 or 5/90? Remember here, the Twins (if I recall correctly) are putting a lot of their eggs in the 2015-2017 baskets. I'm fine holding off paying for someone for one more season. That gives the core one more year to prove they are ready to play at higher levels, one more year to deal with potential injuries or side tracks, and one more year to see what other guys can do like Dozier, Hicks, Pinto, Arcia, etc. Getting Garza or Nolasco right now doesn't save us from another rough season or two anyways. In my personal opinion, 2014 will probably be another 90 loss season. 2015 might be close, but, we should at least be seeing a lot of the future players trying to figure it out at the MLB level. 2016 should be the year we're playing at least .500 ball and back to having a chance to compete again. I say that based solely on the basis of this team banking on the future of Sano, Buxton, May, Meyer, Arcia, Barreios, and Stewart.

If you have examples of the rule I'd love to see them and examine them. (That's not sarcastic by the way) I'd also like the examples to be recent, within the last 10-15 years. I say that because training and injury prevention has come a long way recently. Even doing a little more research, I still see guys like Kevin Brown Mike Mussina, and Curt Schilling throwing until 39. Those guys were more power arms but still. Arroyo compares more to guys that I listed earlier, and even guys like Hudson and Glavine who threw well enough into their late 30's or still are. I just don't think we write off Arroyo so quickly that we can't expect him to last that long.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with you. I get what you're saying, I do. But I don't see a reason to think that just because Arroyo will be 37-39 that he can't throw 180 innings a year. There is just nothing in his history to suggest he can't do that. He doesn't throw hard, he doesn't have a violent motion, he doesn't throw any pitch types that tax his elbow, so for me, I don't see a reason he can't keep doing it. I would certainly expect him to continue being an exception to this rule.

Why not? What in Arroyo's background shows you shouldn't expect him to hold up for 600 innings over the next three years? Moyer, Wells, Maddux, and Kuroda have done just fine in their late 30's.

The thing you have to remember though about Arroyo is he has a proven track record of being healthy. Additionally you probably are paying for him to be a bit of a mentor and his years of preparing himself to make every start, every year. That kind of leadership is needed on a team as young as the Twins. Plus he's pitched on a lot of winning teams and has that wisdom and experience to share. I 100% agree that in theory if Pelfrey is back to being healthy, he's probably just as good as Arroyo, with a tick more upside, at a much lower cost and commitment length. I'm not all that bummed out about this potential signing. Especially if he ends up giving the Twins 400 innings over the next two years. That has a lot of value to the Twins right now. That is one less rotation spot they need to worry about for two years. It's not as if Gibson, Worley, and Deduno have shown they can be let loose for 30 starts and will keep the Twins competitive. I would still like to see them sign another guy, someone like Arroyo, so we can at least go into the year with three guys we can relatively count on in theory to stay healthy for 180 innings and 28-30 starts. That gives them a lot of leeway with the fringe starters right now like Deduno, Gibson, Worley, and possibly May and Meyer at some point. Plus, if we truly are competitive for next year, or look like we might be, I'd be much more excited to go after guys like Bailey, Gallardo, Brett Anderson, Peavy, etc.

I'm surprised at all the disbelief in this thread about the Twins bringing back Pelfrey. I'd like to believe that Ryan has tried to entice other pitchers. I'd like to think he hasn't made an offer to anyone because he's had enough discussions to know that it's going to take 'X' and they are only willing to spend 'Y' so making an offer is pointless. Plus, just to illustrate, look at Dan Haren. He wanted to go back closer to his home. There was just no way the Twins or a team east of Arizona was going to get him unless they were going to pay stupid money. Here is what I'm getting at. Pelfrey isn't a great option. I think we all agree on that. But the reality is that Diamond can't get a right handed hitter out at any level and even lefties hit the snot out of the ball off him last year. I thought I had heard towards the end of the season that they were going to move him out of the rotation similar to what they did with Duensing. So that leaves at most, Gibson, Deduno, and Correia. We've seen how terrible Swarzak and Hendriks are so those guys are not really options in the rotation anymore. Besides, Swarzak might have found a career as a relief option. Meyer and May aren't probably going to get called up until June. Who knows what Worley will do and even if he showed some signs of being able to pitch effectively again, that's still only our third starter to pair up with Correia and Deduno. We need more arms. If guys like Arroyo, Garza, and Nolasco aren't coming, then get what you can get. I'm not even remotely excited about a rotation of say, Correia, Pelfrey, Deduno, Gibson, and whoever else, but if that's what they can sign then so be it. If they could find a way to trade for someone like Bailey, Samarskad;adas;lkjaf, Hellickson, sure, great. But at what cost? I'm not willing to part with anyone like Sano, Buxton, May, or Meyers for any of those pitchers. I probably wouldn't part with Barreiors or Stewart either. Those are our 7 best prospects. They have to be the future of the team for 2015-2017.