Twins 5, Yankees 4: Travis Adams Fields His Position, Twins Salvage a Game

[TheLeviathan]

2 hours ago, Danchat said:

Right when people start to give up on Zebby and wish to move him to the pen, he goes 6 scoreless on the Yanks. There's just too much upside to move him away from starting. And unlike most pitching prospects (who are borderline starter/reliever), he's been able to stay healthy and can go deep into games.

I'd really like to see what he could do with a competent defense behind him.  I still believe there is a good starter in there.

[Peter]

Adams was clutch!!! 3 innings bases loaded jam with 0 outs and gets out of jam!!!💪💪💪🔥🔥🔥huge huge huge statement win!!!💪💪💪

[S Bart]

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Sabato's expected numbers are dramatically lower than his actual, and his actual numbers aren't very impressive relative to his peers. I don't know how many guys we need to see before realizing hitters don't figure it out suddenly over age 25.

Aaron Sabato will get eaten alive by MLB pitching.

WELL...does not hurt to try him out. I have seen him play...disagree..    as far as getting eaten alive...I can think of a few on the roster who meet that definition including the current 1st baseman who has had MANY ABs at the MLB level ...I doubt they will call him up...so it will be a nonissue....may need to think about those on the current roster being                                                                     You also may want to check out the    St Paul Stats "relative to peers"...his OPS is higher than Culpepper, Ross and several others...leads in many areas...so ???  You cannot compare his 410 ABs to a player who has only been there a handful of games.                  https://www.milb.com/st-paul/stats/ops?playerPool=ALL                             

[knothole61]

6 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

I will never ever ever get tired of beating the Yankees 

Yes, and the frustration that their fans felt at blowing a bases loaded situation in extras must make it feel even better!

Sweet win...

[knothole61]

4 hours ago, D.C Twins said:

Keaschall is legit. Culpepper is Legit. Taj is legit. 

I think Zebby will be legit. I think Abel will be legit. I think Rodriguez will be legit. I think Jenkins will be legit. 

I think Ross as a cheap and controllable utility infielder will be legit 

(I think the Twins crapping of the bed at the trade deadline was also legit)

Overall lots to be excited about in the future.

Having said that, it would have been nice to have finished the job of stealing a loss from the jaws of victory today in our chase for the 5th lotto slot!

D.C., Interesting takes. Of them all I think that Jenkins might take the longest to ripen. I know he has potential but he looked very lost at the plate for the most part.

[Riverbrian]

10 hours ago, bean5302 said:

I don't know how many guys we need to see before realizing hitters don't figure it out suddenly over age 25.

We should probably stop drafting college kids. 

The organization could probably save some money on coaching by having them just ignore the 38 in the farm system. We wouldn't as many coaches in theory. 

If these old men want to hang around St. Paul or Wichita. Make them responsible for their own coaching. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

It's gonna be a long, cold winter.

[DJL44]

8 hours ago, S Bart said:

WELL...does not hurt to try him out.

It does, though. Every decision to play someone is a decision to bench someone else. Every player you put on the 40 man roster is a spot that isn’t available for someone else.

I see so many people here asking for more rookies. I assume they’re just bored, but I also know that they will be bored and disappointed with that new rookie after a couple of weeks. Then they’ll be asking for the next player to get called up. A team can’t manage a roster like that.

[DJL44]

48 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

It's gonna be a long, cold winter.

It always is around here

[DJL44]

11 hours ago, SE23 said:

Royce has had 1,346 AB's now, so I think we can conclude he's a 1.0 WAR player. He definitely does NOT profile as a 1B offensively. We're going to have to upgrade that slot.

It has been sad watching the #1 pick in the draft turn into a utility infielder but that’s the current state of things. 

[Riverbrian]

24 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

It does, though. Every decision to play someone is a decision to bench someone else. Every player you put on the 40 man roster is a spot that isn’t available for someone else.

I see so many people here asking for more rookies. I assume they’re just bored, but I also know that they will be bored and disappointed with that new rookie after a couple of weeks. Then they’ll be asking for the next player to get called up. A team can’t manage a roster like that.

It doesn't actually. 

I'll admit that there is a contingent of folks on TD that are a little prospect over the top.

But I also recognize that there is a contingent of folks on TD that are anti young player to the point of unreasonable. 

The truth is somewhere in the middle. 

Myself... I'm not bored... I am tired of committing 425 AB's to below average. Committing 308 AB's to a player worse than that. Somewhere around 1500 plus AB's total committed to below average. I'm tired of counting pre-arb talent across the league (Many over the age of 25) and seeing it perform as well or better as the player getting force fed AB's until they figure it out.  

Yet I'm told that below average players can't yield any playing time. They must play every day and the players age out in the minors trying to squeeze through this self made bottle neck. Players that could be just as below average for less money as the guy we have labelled as every day. Or maybe better in the end. But we just reject these players out of hand. 

I really don't know what Sabato could be. I honestly don't care because no one else does either and I'm not here to debate Sabato. 

Meanwhile Royce Lewis has to play everyday I guess and Sabato is just too old now with a lucky pull ratio.

[DJL44]

4 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

It doesn't actually. 

I'll admit that there is a contingent of folks on TD that are a little prospect over the top.

But I also recognize that there is a contingent of folks on TD that are anti young player to the point of unreasonable. 

The truth is somewhere in the middle. 

Myself... I'm not bored... I am tired of committing 425 AB's to below average. Committing 308 AB's to a player worse than that. Somewhere around 1500 plus AB's total committed to below average. Yet I'm told that those below average players can't yield any playing time.

We have possible replacements who certainly could be worse and also could be just as below average as the guy we have labelled as every day. Or maybe better in the end. But we just reject these players out of hand. 

I really don't know what Sabato could be. I honestly don't care because no one else does either.

Meanwhile Royce Lewis has to play everyday I guess and Sabato is just two old now with a lucky pull ratio. 

But how does it help to promote players who are worse and give them the playing time instead?

Sabato fields first base roughly as well as Josh Bell. That means he has to hit better than Bell to have any chance at contributing to a good Major League Baseball team. I don’t see any indication in his minor league batting record that he will hit better than Bell.

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

11 hours ago, S Bart said:

Considering Royce's current MLB stats are horrible....no need not to bring up Sabato who is setting records in AAA for a season  .  Try him out...royce has not been able to replicate his stats from AAA 

In case anybody was wondering Sabota is 1 day older than Lewis, so expecting him to come up and better or even the same as Lewis is quite the optimism. If people are fine with moving on from Lewis (I am), Sabato shouldn't be the guy you are hoping replaces him. 

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

But how does it help to promote players who are worse and give them the playing time instead?

Sabato fields first base roughly as well as Josh Bell. That means he has to hit better than Bell to have any chance at contributing to a good Major League Baseball team. I don’t see any indication in his minor league batting record that he will hit better than Bell.

Because we don't know that he (they) are worse.

Again... I'm not here to debate Sabato specifically. I'm not going to be hypocritical on the subject. I don't know what Sabato can do.

But... I'm not going to dismiss him out of hand and pretend that Royce Lewis is irreplaceable. That he shouldn't be challenged for playing time by anyone. I'm not going to pretend that I know what Ben Ross is capable of. 

What I do know is this. We don't have a team full of players that should rip opportunity away from the others. 

Commit to average. Pretend that average or below average is irreplaceable and they will be. 

[DJL44]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

Because we don't know that he (they) are worse.

Based on all available evidence, he’s worse on defense, offense and base running. Older players who are mediocre in the minor leagues don’t magically get better in the majors. If a player is not good in AAA we can conclude he also wouldn’t be good in MLB. It is fine to dismiss AAA mediocrity out of hand.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

But how does it help to promote players who are worse and give them the playing time instead?

Sabato fields first base roughly as well as Josh Bell. That means he has to hit better than Bell to have any chance at contributing to a good Major League Baseball team. I don’t see any indication in his minor league batting record that he will hit better than Bell.

Disclaimer: I'm not going to directly support or destroy Aaron Sabato. 

But... I'm going to point out that Josh Bell won't be here next year. Royce Lewis is up to 1479 Plate Appearances. Every other team in the league has developed a young 1B that can hit. 

And we sit here and pre judge the potential options because we can't yield playing time while Caratini plays 1B. 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

Based on all available evidence, he’s worse on defense, offense and base running. Older players who are mediocre in the minor leagues don’t magically get better in the majors. If a player is not good in AAA we can conclude he also wouldn’t be good in MLB. It is fine to dismiss AAA mediocrity out of hand.

Again... I'm not here to debate Sabato. I'm not going to confidently make a call on him. 

But I will debate Jake Magnum if you'd like. Ernie Clement or Nathan Lukes or Kody Clemens. 

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

We should probably stop drafting college kids. 

The organization could probably save some money on coaching by having them just ignore the 38 in the farm system. We wouldn't as many coaches in theory. 

If these old men want to hang around St. Paul or Wichita. Make them responsible for their own coaching. 

It isn't that you should stop drafting college kids (Culpepper and Lackey for example) it is that if this college kids take 4 or 5 years to actually start producing in the minors (not pitchers) an injuries weren't the cause they shouldn't be counted on for anything more than part time/utility/back up type players because the odds are so overwhelming bad that will become anything more than that is so very, very low. 

Teams absoletly need players like this to fill the back end of the roster because they are cheap, usually have options or are expendable, it is this type of players that shouldn't be blocking the younger prospects that have better odds of being more than that. (admittedly still not great odds) 

[DJL44]

20 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Again... I'm not here to debate Sabato. I'm not going to confidently make a call on him. 

But I will debate Jake Magnum if you'd like. Ernie Clement or Nathan Lukes or Kody Clemens. 

A minor leaguer who can actually play defense is a different animal.

[bean5302]

9 hours ago, S Bart said:

WELL...does not hurt to try him out. I have seen him play...disagree..    as far as getting eaten alive...I can think of a few on the roster who meet that definition including the current 1st baseman who has had MANY ABs at the MLB level ...I doubt they will call him up...so it will be a nonissue....may need to think about those on the current roster being                                                                     You also may want to check out the    St Paul Stats "relative to peers"...his OPS is higher than Culpepper, Ross and several others...leads in many areas...so ???  You cannot compare his 410 ABs to a player who has only been there a handful of games.                  https://www.milb.com/st-paul/stats/ops?playerPool=ALL                             

We don't need to try him out. Yes, it does hurt. It takes plate appearances away from somebody else you know is better and you want to potentially improve while hurting the relationship with the locker room. Why not sign some rando and play them? There are literally 1,000s of potential candidates across the globe. The Twins don't have time to play every single guy who has a shiny triple slash in lower baseball leagues.

[Saxophone Joe]

2 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

It's gonna be a long, cold winter.

[Saxophone Joe]

13 hours ago, MeleMouth said:

And the rookie scuffles again . . .

Lombard, Jr.

No need whatsoever to rush on that grounder, either, considering Vic is one of the slowest runners in the league. 

Good win, I guess? At this point, I'll take a record that's under 90 losses. 

[Saxophone Joe]

Random thought: So they had Dave Winfield on for about 4 minutes because of a quick inning and then bemoaned the fact he had to leave so quickly and he had a busy schedule. When they do these in-game interviews that last a half-inning, why not just arrange to have the guest on for, say, 10 minutes, regardless of how long the inning goes? Could've just had him stay through the 2-3 minute commercial break and stay on for another 5 minutes or so. 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

It isn't that you should stop drafting college kids (Culpepper and Lackey for example) it is that if this college kids take 4 or 5 years to actually start producing in the minors (not pitchers) an injuries weren't the cause they shouldn't be counted on for anything more than part time/utility/back up type players because the odds are so overwhelming bad that will become anything more than that is so very, very low. 

Teams absoletly need players like this to fill the back end of the roster because they are cheap, usually have options or are expendable, it is this type of players that shouldn't be blocking the younger prospects that have better odds of being more than that. (admittedly still not great odds) 

For the record. I am not proposing that we don't draft college kids. However... I am saying that if we are just going to blanketly state that age 25 is a line for all hope is lost.

Drafting a 22 year old is going to require a rocket ride through the system and what are we doing with Sabato and the 37 others currently in our system. 

In the meantime, I encourage everyone to take a look around the league sort each team by AB's and take a look at all of the players who have an OPS with .6 or .5 in front of them getting over 300 AB's. Then think about the available space on a 26 man roster and think about the 9 spots available on a lineup card. 

I've done that and I can't help but wonder if the league hasn't artificially made it harder for players over the age of 25 to get the opportunity to compete with some pretty average to below average performers.  

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

A minor leaguer who can actually play defense is a different animal.

It gets pretty subjective here. 

Can't play defense? Does every ball slide under his glove? If it doesn't... he can play some defense. It's going to be a scale of sorts just like his hitting ability will be a scale. 

Again... I'm not here to debate Sabato specifically. I don't know what he will be but I'm getting a pretty good idea on Royce Lewis and it drives me crazy to utilize a below average player like they are actually earning every day playing time.

If average needs to play every day. You have a development problem and maybe the thought that average to below average needs to play every day is a reason why we have a development problem.    

Players are a combination of things. The front offices miss all the time on players. If they miss... You and I can certainly miss because I assume they are better at this than I am.

The front offices miss all the time. There is one way to mitigate that.   

[Riverbrian]

I didn't read the entire thread nor did I read the article and I'm sure someone mentioned it. 

So I apologize if this is rehashing.   

However... the most interesting thing about this game was how close we were to a 1 pitch inning. 

If Keaschall would have grounded into that double play with the 1st pitch instead of the 2nd pitch. It would have been a 1 pitch inning and that has never occurred in the history of baseball. Brooks Lee IBB, Kreidler picked off 2nd. Keaschall double play is how it happens. 

Research says that a 2 pitch inning has occurred in the minor leagues. So a two pitch half inning of baseball just might be the first of it's kind in the majors. 

[LastOnePicked]

52 minutes ago, Saxophone Joe said:

Random thought: So they had Dave Winfield on for about 4 minutes because of a quick inning and then bemoaned the fact he had to leave so quickly and he had a busy schedule. When they do these in-game interviews that last a half-inning, why not just arrange to have the guest on for, say, 10 minutes, regardless of how long the inning goes? Could've just had him stay through the 2-3 minute commercial break and stay on for another 5 minutes or so. 

The way the last six weeks have gone for the Twins, they could've just turned the show into all interviews and interrupt them occasionally with the score or a rookie at-bat.

[S Bart]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

It does, though. Every decision to play someone is a decision to bench someone else. Every player you put on the 40 man roster is a spot that isn’t available for someone else.

I see so many people here asking for more rookies. I assume they’re just bored, but I also know that they will be bored and disappointed with that new rookie after a couple of weeks. Then they’ll be asking for the next player to get called up. A team can’t manage a roster like that.

They seem to not been managing a roster even with the players they had previously. At this point in the season...I honestly don't agree. .with you....to each his own. My main point is that Sabato has shown better offensive numbers than some of those that have been brought up. They keep players on the bench that they do not play such as Jackson..  when the season is over at this point.

[S Bart]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

We don't need to try him out. Yes, it does hurt. It takes plate appearances away from somebody else you know is better and you want to potentially improve while hurting the relationship with the locker room. Why not sign some rando and play them? There are literally 1,000s of potential candidates across the globe. The Twins don't have time to play every single guy who has a shiny triple slash in lower baseball leagues.

Agree to disagree...he has better numbers than many of his peers (your term and prior rationale) who have been brought up as I showed you. So...why are these players better? Then they keep players like Jackson on the bench. You seem to really hate this guy.. cant figure out why? You dont need to waste your time responding....he will not be brought up..  

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Again... I'm not here to debate Sabato. I'm not going to confidently make a call on him. 

But I will debate Jake Magnum if you'd like. Ernie Clement or Nathan Lukes or Kody Clemens. 

Clement has an OPS of .669 (OPS+83) and has a career OPS of .671 (OPS+83) (and weird when the other Jays aren't hitting as expected they are below .500) It worked last year when Kirk (2.3 WAR), Vlad(4.6 WAR), Bichette (3.4 WAR), Varsho (2.7 WR), Springer (4.8 WAR), Straw (2.8 WAR), Scheider (1.3), Barger (1.2). 

Magnum has an OPS of .703 (OPS+91), career OPS of .700 (OPS+93), and likely was a place holder until Valdez was ready, and played more because of Cruz injury, and has been slightly better than average player (but not batter)

Clemens first time in his career he has an OPS+ of 114, and it took 5 years and 4 teams, lets see if he continue and it play similar to Clement, if he is one of the top players on the team .500 is good goal for the team.