The Twins' Collection of Lefty Bats Has Reached the Breaking Point

[Wedman13]

3 hours ago, Cris E said:

Bah. This place needs editors so every bad article idea doesn't just go directly to print without justifying itself first. Is there anything new in here? Still talking about opening day roster, Julien, Outman, complaining that we don't have a good mix of players. This is pointless trash, particularly coming after a draft and a trade deadline where changes were made. 

They dumped Julien. They kept Outman to have one good CF glove on the roster. He can't hit, of course, but when they cut him everyone complained about how bad the CF defense got. They've all but cut Wallner. Clemens is mostly a 2B these days, Mendez is a hundred miles from being a competent MLB outfielder and he has a full suite of options so he's not in the way.  Which is to say the terrible situation has mostly been sorted during the season they were going to dedicate to... seeing what they had on the roster. OK.

@Riverbrian has mathed out the ratio of ABs that call for more left handed hitters, but from my reading this whole piece comes down to still complaining about the Varland trade, still complaining that Jenkins is parked until next year to allow him to play during a lockout, breaking new ground in complaining that Buxton is hurt too often, and maybe that we could miss the playoffs.

You know what old trope you missed? They're still #2 in the Al in runs scored.

Every article twists back to the Varland trade.  Fairly sure Louis is doing the writing.  We get it.  Ya like homegrown guys.  Folks were advocating  for Wallner a year ago.  Win some, lose some.  Roden is not 1/2 of the value we got.  Hes not great.
 

our record is better than last year..our system is stronger .and Toronto' sucks ..(I think) 

but nice job getting me to click 🤣🤣

[Linus]

We just need better hitters period. I don’t care which box they stand in. A lot of talk about running the same guys back next year - I don’t get it. We are a below 500 club for a while now. We need better players not more Larnach, Martin and Bell. I want a legit middle of the order bat or two. For that matter that bat can be at first or third as well. 

[Wedman13]

2 hours ago, HarmonK03 said:

@milldam I am curious, you put a thumbs down on this comment.  It's a factual statement I feel, so why would you do a thumbs down on this.

If you elicited a reaction, up or down, that's good.  It means your comment mattered.  Only feedback.... and lord knows I'm probably wrong..but . every  comment cannot be about Zoll.  (Actually it can as your opinion is your right not mine)

 

i do believe The future is so brighter than 3 years ago.  Just opinion

[bean5302]

The Twins are 9th in runs scored, 6th in wRC+ and 11th in positional player WAR. They've been fine in terms of lineup "results"

The Twins are 27th of 30 teams in MLB when it comes to left handed plate appearances
The Twins are 16th of 30 team in righty plate appearances
The Twins are 3rd of 30 teams in switch hitter plate appearances

As left handed = 29th in terms of WAR
As right handed = 7th in terms of WAR
As switch hitter = 4th in terms of WAR

 

[HarmonK03]

5 minutes ago, Wedman13 said:

If you elicited a reaction, up or down, that's good.  It means your comment mattered.  Only feedback.... and lord knows I'm probably wrong..but . every  comment cannot be about Zoll.  (Actually it can as your opinion is your right not mine)

 

i do believe The future is so brighter than 3 years ago.  Just opinion

Actually my comment was not about Zoll directly, it was in response to a comment that said "most of the people who built this roster are gone".  That is not true and that is not opinion, that is fact.

For your last sentence, I do not have the same belief because nothing substantial has changed in the way they operate.  I want it to be true, but I have to see to believe it.

[HarmonK03]

1 hour ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I wouldn't at all assume that any of Bell or Larnach or Wallner or Fedko or Mendez or Kendle will be here next season. I guess we'll see if Rodriguez ever gets a chance. And who knows if Roden will stay or if Martin is even the right handed platoon option for someone else.

And maybe Tom wants to throw some money at someone like Randy Arozarena in free agency. I'm not saying that will happen or that he would even sign here, But who knows what 2027 will look like.

All of this to say, who knows what 2027 or after will look like. But I do think Jenkins is a better option than most right now today.

Bell, Larnach and Wallner really can't be back next year.  Especially Bell and Wallner they will just clog the roster with a bat first and their hitting is not elite enough to carry a bat only.

[HarmonK03]

57 minutes ago, Otaknam said:

They want Jenkins to keep playing in 27 if there is a partial season lockout, which does make some sense developmentally. 

They should be planning for baseball in 27, that is the only way you should be operating as an organization.  Plouffe commented on this earlier today and he is correct.  Jenkins should be up here, he is doing everything you ask someone to do to get the shot, he makes the team better now and the future.

But this front office has shown they have no real plan.

[HarmonK03]

59 minutes ago, Wedman13 said:

Every article twists back to the Varland trade.  Fairly sure Louis is doing the writing.  We get it.  Ya like homegrown guys.  Folks were advocating  for Wallner a year ago.  Win some, lose some.  Roden is not 1/2 of the value we got.  Hes not great.
 

our record is better than last year..our system is stronger .and Toronto' sucks ..(I think) 

but nice job getting me to click 🤣🤣

How is our system stronger, Roden is a 4th or 5th outfielder at best, Rojas has potential to be a contributor.  From Philadelphia, it looks like Abel will a contributor, but Mendez is going to have a tough time with the current makeup of the roster as mentioned here.  The catcher Tait has leveled this year, could still make improvements, but he has a first round pick now literally breathing down his neck.

So I am not sure how is stronger unless we use some of these assets to fill holes.

[Cory Engelhardt]

8 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

How is our system stronger, Roden is a 4th or 5th outfielder at best, Rojas has potential to be a contributor.  From Philadelphia, it looks like Abel will a contributor, but Mendez is going to have a tough time with the current makeup of the roster as mentioned here.  The catcher Tait has leveled this year, could still make improvements, but he has a first round pick now literally breathing down his neck.

So I am not sure how is stronger unless we use some of these assets to fill holes.

Didn't you just answer your own question? Having more assets to use to fills holes means they are stronger overall no?

[HarmonK03]

3 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Didn't you just answer your own question? Having more assets to use to fills holes means they are stronger overall no?

If they change their philosophy yes, but so far they haven't shown the inclination to use the system to either fill holes in the major leagues or acquire proven position players.

[Cory Engelhardt]

1 minute ago, HarmonK03 said:

If they change their philosophy yes, but so far they haven't shown the inclination to use the system to either fill holes in the major leagues or acquire proven position players.

I agree, they have to show that the words they have been saying this whole season, and arguably showed to a degree this past deadline, aren't meaningless. But that is what Tom has said all season AND what they showed to an extent with the deadline.

So this offseason (if there is baseball in 2027) will be another test that they have to show their words have meaning. 

But really, I do think there are MORE assets in the organization overall right now than there was last year at this time. That's regardless of how they are used or not. That part specifically shows they have more assets, no?

[HarmonK03]

Just now, Cory Engelhardt said:

I agree, they have to show that the words they have been saying this whole season, and arguably showed to a degree this past deadline, aren't meaningless. But that is what Tom has said all season AND what they showed to an extent with the deadline.

So this offseason (if there is baseball in 2027) will be another test that they have to show their words have meaning. 

But really, I do think there are MORE assets in the organization overall right now than there was last year at this time. That's regardless of how they are used or not. That part specifically shows they have more assets, no?

Yes you are correct.  Where I got off track is I don't feel they will be used, so I was trying to have my cake and eat it too by saying the system isn't improved.  I just want them to have a plan and I am not sure they have one and that is my frustration.

[Cory Engelhardt]

Just now, HarmonK03 said:

Yes you are correct.  Where I got off track is I don't feel they will be used, so I was trying to have my cake and eat it too by saying the system isn't improved.  I just want them to have a plan and I am not sure they have one and that is my frustration.

I do agree, historically, trying to trust a Pohlad with what they say has been insanity. It's been an awful lot like the Arrested Development scene where Tobias is telling Lindsay (I'm paraphrasing) that those people delude themselves to think that it will work but it never ever has. But THIS TIME, it might just work."

That's what I feel like when I write this. But even the other day Tom said specifically that he wants to spend in a similar fashion to how the Padres have built their roster. To me that means a LOT of internal extensions, some free agent signings and some external trades using your prospects. 

IF there is some of each of those buckets this offseason, then I'm willing to listen to Tom at his word a little more than historically. But I wouldn't put all my eggs in this basket until he can prove he means what he says.

[HarmonK03]

1 minute ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I do agree, historically, trying to trust a Pohlad with what they say has been insanity. It's been an awful lot like the Arrested Development scene where Tobias is telling Lindsay (I'm paraphrasing) that those people delude themselves to think that it will work but it never ever has. But THIS TIME, it might just work."

That's what I feel like when I write this. But even the other day Tom said specifically that he wants to spend in a similar fashion to how the Padres have built their roster. To me that means a LOT of internal extensions, some free agent signings and some external trades using your prospects. 

IF there is some of each of those buckets this offseason, then I'm willing to listen to Tom at his word a little more than historically. But I wouldn't put all my eggs in this basket until he can prove he means what he says.

The other piece is do you trust Zoll to make these decisions, I have made my thoughts known on this.  Can he target the right pieces and set a direction.  That is what I most want is what is the direction.

I have a flex ticket package and starting last year at the trade deadline that is the conversations I have been having with my ticket rep.  Convince me why I should keep investing money in this package, what is the plan.  They have been more enjoyable to watch this year, but what are they doing to build a sustainable competitive team and not just one that sits around .500 year in and year out.

[Cory Engelhardt]

3 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

The other piece is do you trust Zoll to make these decisions, I have made my thoughts known on this.  Can he target the right pieces and set a direction.  That is what I most want is what is the direction.

I have a flex ticket package and starting last year at the trade deadline that is the conversations I have been having with my ticket rep.  Convince me why I should keep investing money in this package, what is the plan.  They have been more enjoyable to watch this year, but what are they doing to build a sustainable competitive team and not just one that sits around .500 year in and year out.

I don't hate the moves that I would argue Zoll has been in charge of. It's hard for me to judge the front office TOO much for the past offseason when they didn't at that time have a direction on payroll because of Joe Pohlad just being so beyond incompetent that they took him out of baseball operations altogether.

Generally the deadline last year I'm ok with, and even the free agents added this offseason have MOSTLY been ok. And the trade deadline added some good pieces that helped the bullpen and some are even around for next season too, all without giving away really anything for 2026 or 2027. Frankly, my biggest gripe with this past trade deadline was not being forward thinking and moving Larnach when the time was right. But I can see why NOT selling anyone is a different message to the team at that specific moment.

But yeah, that's a good question overall. Let's say Joe wasn't incompetent and/or Tom would have been in place in October 2025 and had a clear plan for what this past offseason would have looked like both in terms of payroll and for not having the team being open for sale. I'd be willing to entertain the idea that at that time the offseason would have added more to the bullpen than they did. But because of Falvey leaving/team up for sale/Joe being "fired" by the Pohlads and being replaced by Tom, there kind of HAS to be context added to the past offseason and how it came together no? And really, I have a hard time putting THAT on Zoll specifically.

None of this is to say that Zoll IS the answer. But most of what has happened since he's been the guy in charge of baseball ops has been good in my opinion. Not great, not otherworldly, but good.

 

How would you describe it?

[HerbieFan]

Falvey's parting gift.  Thanks Derek.

[HarmonK03]

11 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I don't hate the moves that I would argue Zoll has been in charge of. It's hard for me to judge the front office TOO much for the past offseason when they didn't at that time have a direction on payroll because of Joe Pohlad just being so beyond incompetent that they took him out of baseball operations altogether.

Generally the deadline last year I'm ok with, and even the free agents added this offseason have MOSTLY been ok. And the trade deadline added some good pieces that helped the bullpen and some are even around for next season too, all without giving away really anything for 2026 or 2027. Frankly, my biggest gripe with this past trade deadline was not being forward thinking and moving Larnach when the time was right. But I can see why NOT selling anyone is a different message to the team at that specific moment.

But yeah, that's a good question overall. Let's say Joe wasn't incompetent and/or Tom would have been in place in October 2025 and had a clear plan for what this past offseason would have looked like both in terms of payroll and for not having the team being open for sale. I'd be willing to entertain the idea that at that time the offseason would have added more to the bullpen than they did. But because of Falvey leaving/team up for sale/Joe being "fired" by the Pohlads and being replaced by Tom, there kind of HAS to be context added to the past offseason and how it came together no? And really, I have a hard time putting THAT on Zoll specifically.

None of this is to say that Zoll IS the answer. But most of what has happened since he's been the guy in charge of baseball ops has been good in my opinion. Not great, not otherworldly, but good.

 

How would you describe it?

You are correct in that there seemed to be some uncertainty last offseason.  And Falvey didn't leave until right before spring training which at that the initial direction for the season had been set.  They did have some money to spend, they did sign Bell and Caratini and I would have preferred go towards the bullpen.

To me Joe Pohlad was not in charge of baseball operations, he was basically CEO over everything and Falvey was supposed to be leading the baseball operations on a day to day basis and I think he was.  Yes he got the rug pulled out from under him on the payroll but I am still not sure he allocated the resources given to him wisely, this offseason being one example.

My concern is Zoll has worked for 10 years under Falvey and it sounds like he has basically been his #2 for at least the last 5 years.  There was chatter when Levine left as GM, that he had been kept out of the loop for his final 2 to 3 years and Falvey had been leaning on Zoll.

While Zoll might be his own person, I don't want to take that chance.  I feel like he is going to operate like Falvey 2.0 and there have been plenty examples of that this year,   To be fair he has done a couple of things that feel different.

I want an experienced baseball executive to lead baseball operations something Zoll has never done. I would hope that they would have a fresh set of eyes and say this is working and this isn't and set a direction for the organization based on their experience.

I have mentioned this before, the Timberwolves did it the right way when they hired Tim Connelly, he is not afraid to make moves to better the team and take some chances, but he also has a plan.  That is what I am hoping Tom Pohlad will come to the realization to do and stay out of the way of the professionals,

 

 

[Cory Engelhardt]

5 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

You are correct in that there seemed to be some uncertainty last offseason.  And Falvey didn't leave until right before spring training which at that the initial direction for the season had been set.  They did have some money to spend, they did sign Bell and Caratini and I would have preferred go towards the bullpen.

To me Joe Pohlad was not in charge of baseball operations, he was basically CEO over everything and Falvey was supposed to be leading the baseball operations on a day to day basis and I think he was.  Yes he got the rug pulled out from under him on the payroll but I am still not sure he allocated the resources given to him wisely, this offseason being one example.

My concern is Zoll has worked for 10 years under Falvey and it sounds like he has basically been his #2 for at least the last 5 years.  There was chatter when Levine left as GM, that he had been kept out of the loop for his final 2 to 3 years and Falvey had been leaning on Zoll.

While Zoll might be his own person, I don't want to take that chance.  I feel like he is going to operate like Falvey 2.0 and there have been plenty examples of that this year,   To be fair he has done a couple of things that feel different.

I want an experienced baseball executive to lead baseball operations something Zoll has never done. I would hope that they would have a fresh set of eyes and say this is working and this isn't and set a direction for the organization based on their experience.

I have mentioned this before, the Timberwolves did it the right way when they hired Tim Connelly, he is not afraid to make moves to better the team and take some chances, but he also has a plan.  That is what I am hoping Tom Pohlad will come to the realization to do and stay out of the way of the professionals,

 

 

I get that too. But GOOD Falvey with ownership backing traded for and extended Pablo, got Carlos Correa to sigh here (and EVERYONE loved that at the time) as well as made a pretty awesome and creative Buxton extension. Then the rug got pulled out, but those are the kinds of moves that I hope a front office can shoot for if ownership gives them support.

So again, we will see what the future holds. And if Zoll isn't the guy, and/or Tom eventually sells to a different ownership group, having a plan is something I very much agree with too.

[Wedman13]

1 hour ago, HarmonK03 said:

Actually my comment was not about Zoll directly, it was in response to a comment that said "most of the people who built this roster are gone".  That is not true and that is not opinion, that is fact.

For your last sentence, I do not have the same belief because nothing substantial has changed in the way they operate.  I want it to be true, but I have to see to believe it.

Fair.  I tend to put too much stock in prospects (example I think a major fail not to trade Buck / if he agreed) but we'll see how it plays out for the young guys. An opinion is all I got! :)

[TheLeviathan]

I said it last summer - the sell off wasn't my issue.  The targets of our sell off most certainly were.  We didn't target the right kinds of players in our deals from where I sat.

Other than the Varland-deal-that-shall-not-be-named they appear to have done well last offseason...but this issue was a glaring mistake.

[bean5302]

49 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I get that too. But GOOD Falvey with ownership backing traded for and extended Pablo, got Carlos Correa to sigh here (and EVERYONE loved that at the time) as well as made a pretty awesome and creative Buxton extension. Then the rug got pulled out, but those are the kinds of moves that I hope a front office can shoot for if ownership gives them support.

So again, we will see what the future holds. And if Zoll isn't the guy, and/or Tom eventually sells to a different ownership group, having a plan is something I very much agree with too.

Good Falvey? His teams made the playoffs 1 time in the past 5 years. I don't care about the names Falvey signed, I care that his teams were non-competitive. Meanwhile, the Twins were getting the crap kicked out of them by the Guardians who didn't have anywhere near the investment Minnesota did. If "good" Falvey needed 2x the payroll to be competitive, he wasn't that good, was he?

[Cory Engelhardt]

4 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Good Falvey? His teams made the playoffs 1 time in the past 5 years. I don't care about the names Falvey signed, I care that his teams were non-competitive. Meanwhile, the Twins were getting the crap kicked out of them by the Guardians who didn't have anywhere near the investment Minnesota did. If "good" Falvey needed 2x the payroll to be competitive, he wasn't that good, was he?

I'm saying there were good moves that were made that I would expect a good baseball guy to make. I didn't say the outcome was amazing. But if Tom is trying to show he is for real, those are the kinds of moves I would expect every offseason. That's all. 

[Andy MacPhail]

I'm all for LH hitters but the main point here is that there have been a logjam of them at the cOF position by collecting & hoarding them. Therefore as you stated, the younger ones aren't getting the opportunities & we have no idea in what they are capable of doing, not building their value & know what to do with them, plus delaying players like Jenkins to come up. We are forced to trade young players not knowing (by a long shot) their full potential. IMO. that's poor management.

[Cody Pirkl]

9 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

First off... the first graph you use includes Outman and Julien who are no longer on the roster.

2nd... 7 players on the current 40 man roster are pure left handed. That's 17.5%

3rd... If you look at all major league teams -- 25% of major league hitters are pure lefty swingers. 

4th... Despite 25% of players being left handed - 48% of at bats are handled by someone standing in the left handed batters box.

5th... 28% of major league pitching is left handed (Edit) 

6th... Left handed hitters vs Right Handed pitchers is the best matchup amongst all platoon splits and it occurs 72% of the time. 

7th... Left handed hitters vs left handed pitchers is the worst and it occurs 28% of the time.   

8th... More left handed hitters is how to play the split correct because of 3 to1. 

9th... The platoon splits become thin margins on a per AB basis or per game basis. Platoon splits only stabalize over time... in the meantime... time can be used for development. 

10th... STOP TRYING TO MATH THIS THING TOGETHER with platoon splits with lesser players. Find talent regardless and quit caring what side of the plate they stand. Develop them fully. 

So are you arguing that the rate at which they've targeted LHHs has been successful and that they should keep doing what they have been then?

[Cody Pirkl]

6 hours ago, Stew said:

Great response. Also we do have Bell , lee and caratini who are all switch hitters. I don't see a problem with the mix. Elwe just need hitters to come closer to there potential.

 

Bell, Lee, and Caratini are all terrible RHHs, despite the fact that they can stand on that side of the battery's box.

[David HK]

LH corner outfielders are one thing, but we seem to be trying to corner the market on mediocre, slow, defensively challenged LH corner outfielders.

[David HK]

9 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I said it last summer - the sell off wasn't my issue.  The targets of our sell off most certainly were.  We didn't target the right kinds of players in our deals from where I sat.

Other than the Varland-deal-that-shall-not-be-named they appear to have done well last offseason...but this issue was a glaring mistake.

I'll take any chance I can get to flog that one.  I will never forgive them for the Louie thing.  Never.

[Riverbrian]

9 hours ago, Cody Pirkl said:

So are you arguing that the rate at which they've targeted LHHs has been successful and that they should keep doing what they have been then?

No I'm not

I'm saying the Twins are below average in terms of left handed hitting human beings on the 40 man and we are way below average in terms of left handed hitting usage on the 26 man. 

Mainly I'm saying to the front office to you to everyone. Stop making left or right handed a reason or the focus point. You just call up your best players and you don't strip mine them for parts when you do. 

I'm also saying that if you are going to choose a hand to be successful against. Being good against right handed pitching is where you would choose because of the 72 to 28% advantage... 

And here we are... better against right handed pitching with RIGHT HANDED HITTERS and we are WORRIED about another LEFT HANDED HITTER because we lost our part time right handed sacrificial lamb Austin Martin. 

The Twins are basically turning the platoon advantage on it's head right in front of us by being better against right handed pitching with primarily Right Handed hitters. 

 

[Cody Pirkl]

27 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

No I'm not

I'm saying the Twins are below average in terms of left handed hitting human beings on the 40 man and we are way below average in terms of left handed hitting usage on the 26 man. 

Mainly I'm saying to the front office to you to everyone. Stop making left or right handed a reason or the focus point. You just call up your best players and you don't strip mine them for parts when you do. 

I'm also saying that if you are going to choose a hand to be successful against. Being good against right handed pitching is where you would choose because of the 72 to 28% advantage... 

And here we are... better against right handed pitching with RIGHT HANDED HITTERS and we are WORRIED about another LEFT HANDED HITTER because we lost our part time right handed sacrificial lamb Austin Martin. 

The Twins are basically turning the platoon advantage on it's head right in front of us by being better against right handed pitching with primarily Right Handed hitters. 

 

I don't understand this takeaway at all. The Twins aren't "turning the platoon advantage on it's head". You say that like they've made some kind of unprecedented breakthrough. They're better against RHP because they can't fill out a lineup with capable RHHs against LHP. They haven't been able to all year because of how they built the roster.

Their best hitters are RH so they play everyday. All of their switch hitters are worse against LHP. Most LHHs are much worst against LHP and they've chosen to overinvest in LHHs or switch hitters who are better left-handed. 

 

[Cody Pirkl]

18 hours ago, Cris E said:

Bah. This place needs editors so every bad article idea doesn't just go directly to print without justifying itself first. Is there anything new in here? Still talking about opening day roster, Julien, Outman, complaining that we don't have a good mix of players. This is pointless trash, particularly coming after a draft and a trade deadline where changes were made. 

They dumped Julien. They kept Outman to have one good CF glove on the roster. He can't hit, of course, but when they cut him everyone complained about how bad the CF defense got. They've all but cut Wallner. Clemens is mostly a 2B these days, Mendez is a hundred miles from being a competent MLB outfielder and he has a full suite of options so he's not in the way.  Which is to say the terrible situation has mostly been sorted during the season they were going to dedicate to... seeing what they had on the roster. OK.

@Riverbrian has mathed out the ratio of ABs that call for more left handed hitters, but from my reading this whole piece comes down to still complaining about the Varland trade, still complaining that Jenkins is parked until next year to allow him to play during a lockout, breaking new ground in complaining that Buxton is hurt too often, and maybe that we could miss the playoffs.

You know what old trope you missed? They're still #2 in the Al in runs scored.

I thought that writing about a team having too many LHHs and being in the bottom 1/3 of the league against LHPs and being on no hitter watch whenever they face LHPs was relevant. Especially when everyone is clamoring for Walker Jenkins. My bad!

You say the roster has been mostly sorted as the season has gone one. Go look at yesterday's lineup against a LHP and say that they've rounded into form. I don't get it. 

Also, I don't know why you read this as the whole piece coming down to complaining about the Varland trade. I mention the three LHHs they acquired at the deadline as well as other moves for LHHs they made after that were problems. Seems like a pretty disingenuous way to minimize an entire article in my opinion. If I wanted to write about how terrible that trade looks, I'd just do it, and it would probably be longer than this one!