Week in Review: Winning Out West

[tony&rodney]

When a pitcher throws the ball someone has to catch it. Seems simple but catcher is a position by some multiples much more difficult to fill than any other position in baseball. No other position has anywhere near the demands, either physically or mentally. As someone who played primarily as a pitcher but also at every other position at one time or another, I suggest it is crucial to have a decent catcher. Let's not take the steady contributions by our catching tandem for granted because we want more offense from the spot. Offense is for the other eleven.

If one were to ask any of the Twins pitchers about the value of the catcher they would give you a sideways eye and chuckle, because they all know how important that guy behind the mask is to their success.

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

 Offense is for the other eleven.

I could not disagree more.

All defense, no offense is no more, or LESS damaging at one position over another.

A .450 OPS comes up once every nine PAs and hurts the offense exactly the same whether that's from a catcher, left fielder, or first baseman. 

 

 

 

[Old fox]

Vasquez is about as good as Maldonado? 

[ashbury]

10 hours ago, Jeff K said:

 (except) Farmer

Kepler and Jeffers have been pretty cold for a while, too.

[tony&rodney]

53 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I could not disagree more.

All defense, no offense is no more, or LESS damaging at one position over another.

A .450 OPS comes up once every nine PAs and hurts the offense exactly the same whether that's from a catcher, left fielder, or first baseman. 

 

 

 

If Baltimore wants to trade us their catcher that would be wonderful, but be careful what you wish for because there are many worse options than Vazquez at catcher. Yan Gomes anyone? Who pines for Mitch Garver behind the plate?

[SwainZag]

4 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Vazquez has started 4 more games at catcher.... Not half.

Everyone else is good, so it doesn't matter he's bad? That's no argument. 

He's got negative fwar, with the defense counted..... He's one of the worst hitters in a decade, and he starts more than half the games. 

IMO, it would be more of an issue if Jeffers was doing anything at the plate.  In the last 6 weeks their starts have been nearly identical, Vazquez starting 1 more game at C, while Jeffers has DH'ed 6 times.  In that timeframe their batting lines looks like this:

Vaz: 81 PA/75AB, .187/.225/.293  OPS: .518

Jeffers: 120 PA/104 AB, .164/.261/.279  OPS: .539

Also note that Jeffers hasn't DH'ed a game since Royce has been off the IL.  

[JD-TWINS]

4 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Vazquez has started 4 more games at catcher.... Not half.

Everyone else is good, so it doesn't matter he's bad? That's no argument. 

He's got negative fwar, with the defense counted..... He's one of the worst hitters in a decade, and he starts more than half the games. 

If he started more than half the games, it’s so they could get more RH bats in the line-up (both he & Jeffers) is the only logical explanation. I watch nearly every game and don’t recall there not being a strict every other day platoon. Not sure how to access who has started which games at Catcher?

I do see Vazquez has been IN 48 games with 167 plate appearances…….Jeffers has been IN 67 games with 264 plate appearances. That equates to 528 PA’s for Jeffers over a season…..a fairly sizable amount it seems. Looks like 6 of the games for Jeffers he was a Pinch Hitter with just 1 AB.

It’s obvious that in 2 of the 48 games Vazquez was IN he was subbed in or out? One game he has no AB’s and the other he has 1 AB.

The argument is that he was hired for League knowledge - handling pitchers - defense….and he’s getting paid through NEXT year. If a guy at  any other workplace was getting paid for future work, even if he wasn’t up to snuff, they’d find something for him to do or some way to contribute…..IMO. That’s where club is at now.

[JD-TWINS]

11 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

If Baltimore wants to trade us their catcher that would be wonderful, but be careful what you wish for because there are many worse options than Vazquez at catcher. Yan Gomes anyone? Who pines for Mitch Garver behind the plate?

Garver has a lower BA than Vazquez and he’s Seattle’s DH….,at least we aren’t living with that debacle daily!!

[Mike Sixel]

As a catcher, Vazquez is 39th of 43 catchers in fwar with at least 100 abs. So theoretically it could be worse, but it world be hard to be worse. His at bats count as much as anyone else's at bats. You can't just say it doesn't matter, it clearly does. 

[Mike Sixel]

Jeffers is sixth as a catcher in fwar, as a team, they drop to 16th. So ya, it matters. 

[tony&rodney]

5 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

As a catcher, Vazquez is 39th of 43 catchers if fwar with at least 100 abs. So theoretically it could be worse, bit it world be hard to be worse. His at bats count as much as anyone else's at bats. You can't just say it doesn't matter, it clearly does. 

I don't believe anyone is pleased with how Vazquez has struggled at the plate this year, especially the man himself. However, there isn't any other options at this time and a guy who can catch the ball is vital to every pitcher on the Twins staff. I'm not ready to bail on Vazquez right now. Camargo is not an answer yet.

[stringer bell]

11 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Usage limited, IMO, due to 2 issues. Coming off arm issues……,has problem with walks. He was in a game 10 days or so ago where he walked 3 guys in one inning. He fortunately worked around it but I think there’s a hesitancy due to that issue. He may have needed “some rest” in the view of the organization? Not sure if he has options left - if not, could be just giving him a break on the Big Club’s roster?

He has performed, no doubt!!

Staumont was optioned earlier this year (from April 19 to May 8). He is close to five years of service time, but currently short of it, so he could be optioned. 

[stringer bell]

29 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

I don't believe anyone is pleased with how Vazquez has struggled at the plate this year, especially the man himself. However, there isn't any other options at this time and a guy who can catch the ball is vital to every pitcher on the Twins staff. I'm not ready to bail on Vazquez right now. Camargo is not an answer yet.

I agree that Vázquez is really the only proven option to catch along with Jeffers. Given his salary, he isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I don't agree with using him 50% of the time. Jeffers should be able to catch the odd game, something between 55 and 60 percent of games. 

[TheLeviathan]

This team needs a leadoff hitter.  It needs left handed hitting.  The pitching on the market is mostly overrated and I think the team will be fine, barring injury, sticking with it's own options at this point.  I certainly don't want to pay through the nose for Snell or Severino or Eovaldi.

Instead I propose we solve the first two problems with one aggressive move:  Free Jazz Chisholm.  Play the man in LF.  Bat him leadoff.  Let his freedom from the oppression of the awful Miami franchise help him restore his form. 

Bonuses: We have a good relationship with Florida so if you want to expand the deal for an arm, it's likely possible.  Chisholm has several years of team control.  He can play CF so he's Buxton insurance (among infield positions for flexibility, not that it would need to be used).  He might bring a speed element this team desperately needs.  The lineup balances so much better with Chisolm-Miranda-Lewis-Larnach-Correa-Buxton-Kepler-Castro-Jeffers.  

Then go add Diaz to replace Vasquez.  Just to save us all the pain every 9 trips.

[tony&rodney]

42 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Instead I propose we solve the first two problems with one aggressive move:  Free Jazz Chisholm.  Play the man in LF.  Bat him leadoff.  Let his freedom from the oppression of the awful Miami franchise help him restore his form. 

Decent idea but who goes to Miami? 

[TheLeviathan]

8 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Decent idea but who goes to Miami? 

Depends who the Fish like.  Toss em Gabriel Gonzales and a prospect or two in the 11-25 range.

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

Depends who the Fish like.  Toss em Gabriel Gonzales and a prospect or two in the 11-25 range.

I sure say yes to that, but I think they will counter with Lee, Festa, and Keaschall.

[TheLeviathan]

30 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

I sure say yes to that, but I think they will counter with Lee, Festa, and Keaschall.

If they do....then move on.  I'm not going to pay for him like he's an all-world player.

But I'll buy on him at a "very good" price tag.  There isn't a single player I see currently on the market worth giving up Lee.  Maybe if Toronto sells that changes, but as of now that player is not on the market.  Hell, I don't see anyone worth giving up any of our top prospects for.