2023 Vikings Regular Season Thread

[Mike Sixel]

JJ and a first to Arizona for your pick of QB, yes or no?

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Well the Vikings probably can’t pay Jefferson and Darrisaw or Hunter and pay Cousins. So I don’t see how that team would be any more competitive.

A team without cousins would be far less competitive than a team without either Darrishaw or Hunter. I love both those guys but you’re not going anywhere with a middling quarterback. We’ve had both of those guys healthy for the last 5 games when we’ve gone 1-4

[Aggies7]

22 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

JJ and a first to Arizona for your pick of QB, yes or no?

You’d be trading away an unbelievable talent for a big question mark 

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

You’d be trading away an unbelievable talent for a big question mark 

so, that's a no?

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Well the Vikings probably can’t pay Jefferson and Darrisaw or Hunter and pay Cousins. So I don’t see how that team would be any more competitive.

I think they can pay them all.....the cap is going up, and there will be room. Darrisaw has been hurt a lot, and was not good the last few games. That could health, of course....but I'm not sure he's as expensive as once thought.

[Vanimal46]

31 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

JJ and a first to Arizona for your pick of QB, yes or no?

No

[Vanimal46]

Jaren Hall named the starting QB against Green Bay. Looking forward to seeing how he does the last 2 games. We gotta find out if the Vikings need 1 or 2 QBs this offseason. 

[Aggies7]

20 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

so, that's a no?

Healthy Cousins, Jefferson and Addison next year make the team an automatic contender.

[Parfigliano]

52 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

JJ and a first to Arizona for your pick of QB, yes or no?

Hard no.

[Mike Sixel]

13 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Jaren Hall named the starting QB against Green Bay. Looking forward to seeing how he does the last 2 games. We gotta find out if the Vikings need 1 or 2 QBs this offseason. 

fascinating! KoC has no fear of being second guessed, I see.

[Aggies7]

I believe this is accurate. Seems halfway favorable.

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

JJ and a first to Arizona for your pick of QB, yes or no?

I think JJ is worth more than a first round pick. I don't think the Vikings should have to throw in another first on top of him.

Still, no. Probably. 

[nicksaviking]

59 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Healthy Cousins, Jefferson and Addison next year make the team an automatic contender.

Disagree. 

They weren't an automatic contender in 2022 when they won 13 games and had Cousins and Jefferson.

[Mike Sixel]

18 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I think JJ is worth more than a first round pick. I don't think the Vikings should have to throw in another first on top of him.

Still, no. Probably. 

This seems to be the consensus.....and I get it. 

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

A team without cousins would be far less competitive than a team without either Darrishaw or Hunter. I love both those guys but you’re not going anywhere with a middling quarterback. We’ve had both of those guys healthy for the last 5 games when we’ve gone 1-4

I want to win a Super Bowl though, and a team with a 36-year-old Cousins has next to no chance to win one unless they have an elite defense. This team doesn't have one of those and even the smoke-and-mirrors going on right now evaporates if Flores goes. Paying Cousins and Jefferson probably eliminates any shot at buying an all time elite defense .

So I'd rather start over if that's what's required.

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Disagree. 

They weren't an automatic contender in 2022 when they won 13 games and had Cousins and Jefferson.

Getting a home playoff game doesn’t make you a contender? Didn’t we have Darrishaw and Hunter last year too?

Vikings had the second worst defense in the league in yards per game last year. It’s a testament to cousins and the offense that they won 13 games in spite of that.

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

I want to win a Super Bowl though, and a team with a 36-year-old Cousins has next to no chance to win one unless they have an elite defense. This team doesn't have one of those and even the smoke-and-mirrors going on right now evaporates if Flores goes. Paying Cousins and Jefferson probably eliminates any shot at buying an all time elite defense .

So I'd rather start over if that's what's required.

It’s absolutely wild that a guy who has finished 4th, 12th, 4th and 5th in quarterback rating over the last 4 years is deemed to need an elite defense to win a Super Bowl

The defense has finished 31st, 30th and 26th in yards allowed over the previous 3 seasons. They’re 13th right now and with a healthy cousins would absolutely be in the playoffs.
 

The defense doesn’t need to be elite, but it can’t be bottom 10. The guy has largely played behind a bottom 10 offensive line and a bottom 5 defense for much of his time here. Name me a single quarterback who wins a Super Bowl with that mess.

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

It’s absolutely wild that a guy who has finished 4th, 12th, 4th and 5th in quarterback rating over the last 4 years is deemed to need an elite defense to win a Super Bowl

The defense has finished 31st, 30th and 26th in yards allowed over the previous 3 seasons. They’re 13th right now and with a healthy cousins would absolutely be in the playoffs. The defense doesn’t need to be elite, but it can’t be bottom 10. WHO could win with that?

Kirk Cousins is a very good QB, top ten for sure, but he doesn't improvise. He does exactly what the play calls for or goes to the assigned audibles and check downs, but he does not go off script. Won't or can't, either way, that's what you need. You're not running the table in the playoffs without a QB who will take charge and do the things that need to be done that the coaches have not anticipated. Mahomes and Rodgers would NEVER repeatedly be standing outside the huddle covering their ear holes because the OC or HC can't get their crap together, they'd go to the huddle, or even avoid the huddle all together and design their own play at the line of scrimmage. 

When a play breaks down, he's unable to say 'screw this, I'll do it myself' and scramble like Jackson, Allen or Hurts. Or even like Herbet and Burrow. The final play against the Giants last year isn't a final indictment on the guy, but it perfectly encapsulates why he can't win it all. The top QBs would have either completely disregarded that terrible play call, audibled everyone to run better routes, or scrambled out of the pocket and made the LB decide to either continue to cover Hockenson or to come up and tackle the QB.

Sorry, he's really, really good, but to win it all, they need a maverick, not a boy scout behind center.

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Kirk Cousins is a very good QB, top ten for sure, but he doesn't improvise. He does exactly what the play calls for or goes to the assigned audibles and check downs, but he does not go off script. Won't or can't, either way, that's what you need. You're not running the table in the playoffs without a QB who will take charge and do the things that need to be done that the coaches have not anticipated. Mahomes and Rodgers would NEVER repeatedly be standing outside the huddle covering their ear holes because the OC or HC can't get their crap together, they'd go to the huddle, or even avoid the huddle all together and design their own play at the line of scrimmage. 

When a play breaks down, he's unable to say 'screw this, I'll do it myself' and scramble like Jackson, Allen or Hurts. Or even like Herbet and Burrow. The final play against the Giants last year isn't a final indictment on the guy, but it perfectly encapsulates why he can't win it all. The top QBs would have either completely disregarded that terrible play call, audibled everyone to run better routes, or scrambled out of the pocket and made the LB decide to either continue to cover Hockenson or to come up and tackle the QB.

Sorry, he's really, really good, but to win it all, they need a maverick, not a boy scout behind center.

To be fair, we had a maverick, and he threw across his body for an interception, costing the most complete Vikings team of my lifetime a chance at a Super Bowl appearance. Maybe if the Vikings defense could have stopped a horribly average Daniel jones and giants team, it wouldn’t have come down to that final play

[nicksaviking]

15 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

To be fair, we had a maverick, and he threw across his body for an interception, costing the most complete Vikings team of my lifetime a chance at a Super Bowl appearance. Maybe if the Vikings defense could have stopped a horribly average Daniel jones and giants team, it wouldn’t have come down to that final play

Yeah, the end of 2009 sucked. It was also the last time this team had a legit shot at winning the Super Bowl.

As for last year, yeah, they couldn't get past the worst team in the playoffs. They still would have had to go through the 49ers, Eagles and Chiefs.

[gunnarthor]

17 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Kirk Cousins is a very good QB, top ten for sure, but he doesn't improvise. He does exactly what the play calls for or goes to the assigned audibles and check downs, but he does not go off script. Won't or can't, either way, that's what you need. You're not running the table in the playoffs without a QB who will take charge and do the things that need to be done that the coaches have not anticipated. Mahomes and Rodgers would NEVER repeatedly be standing outside the huddle covering their ear holes because the OC or HC can't get their crap together, they'd go to the huddle, or even avoid the huddle all together and design their own play at the line of scrimmage. 

When a play breaks down, he's unable to say 'screw this, I'll do it myself' and scramble like Jackson, Allen or Hurts. Or even like Herbet and Burrow. The final play against the Giants last year isn't a final indictment on the guy, but it perfectly encapsulates why he can't win it all. The top QBs would have either completely disregarded that terrible play call, audibled everyone to run better routes, or scrambled out of the pocket and made the LB decide to either continue to cover Hockenson or to come up and tackle the QB.

Sorry, he's really, really good, but to win it all, they need a maverick, not a boy scout behind center.

I'm not a huge Cousins guy and at his age, it might be time to move on. But your posts are just wrong. The Cousins we've had the last few years could have won a super bowl with the right coaching/supporting cast.

This idea that only franchise, gunslinging, improvising, walk-on-water QBs can win a Superbowl is just wrong. Rodgers, for all his talent, won one super bowl and is only 12-10 in the post-season, despite having a fantastic supporting cast and elite coaches. Matt Stafford won a Superbowl the year he lead the league in interceptions. Nick Foles won one. Case Keenan brought a team to the NFC Championship game. And Brock Purdy exists.

The legitimate concern about QBs is that they cost so much, compared to the rest of the team, that they can make building a roster very hard. I don't think the Vikings agree, but I think I'm ready to go with someone like McCarthy who seems to fit KOC's pocket passing model and use the savings to improve the team elsewhere.

[gunnarthor]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, the end of 2009 sucked. It was also the last time this team had a legit shot at winning the Super Bowl.

As for last year, yeah, they couldn't get past the worst team in the playoffs. They still would have had to go through the 49ers, Eagles and Chiefs.

They beat the 49ers, the refs gave the Chiefs their victory, and if Mattison and Jefferson didn't fumble, we would have beaten the Eagles, too. The game is funny.

[nicksaviking]

7 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

This idea that only franchise, gunslinging, improvising, walk-on-water QBs can win a Superbowl is just wrong. Rodgers, for all his talent, won one super bowl and is only 12-10 in the post-season, despite having a fantastic supporting cast and elite coaches. Matt Stafford won a Superbowl the year he lead the league in interceptions. Nick Foles won one. Case Keenan brought a team to the NFC Championship game. And Brock Purdy exists.

Foles and Flacco won a Super Bowl with elite defenses, or better put, the elite defenses won the Super Bowl with those QBs. Same would be the case if Purdy was able to get out of his own way. 

Getting one elite QB should be easier than getting 11 elite defenders. Everyone makes it out to like it's such a hard thing to do, but there are about 7-8 or so QBs in the league that seem capable of repeatedly carrying their teams through the playoffs. That's 20-25% of the teams. This team has had such a QB maybe four times in it's history, and not one who was here and consistently effective since Fran Tarkenton. They need to stop with the short-term band-aid approach to the position. 

This team hasn't had back-to-back seasons with double digit wins in 15 years, which was the last time this team was considered a legit contender by people outside of the immediate fanbase. Getting an elite QB tends to solve that issue. Can't we at least try? Other franchises wouldn't have been scared off by drafting a dud in Christian Ponder a dozen years later.

[cHawk]

On 12/29/2023 at 8:38 AM, gunnarthor said:

They beat the 49ers, the refs gave the Chiefs their victory, and if Mattison and Jefferson didn't fumble, we would have beaten the Eagles, too. The game is funny.

The 49ers are not nearly the same team without Trent Williams or Deebo Samuel, both of whom were inactive Week 7. Additionally, Brock Purdy was concussed in the fourth quarter, which had to be at least a contributing factor to his boneheaded interceptions. The level of red zone ineptitude exhibited by the Vikings in that game (1st & Goal inside the 5-yard line twice and settling for field goals both times) is not sustainable and would be exploited in the postseason.

We can point at certain gaffes and miscues and say, "If we didn't ____, we would have won," but there comes a point where they are not an aberration rather a damning flaw. Teams don't win Super Bowls making mistakes like those the Vikings have made this season, and they've been making them consistently throughout the season.

[Aggies7]

Dan Campbell plays for the win instead of the tie and Detroit loses. To be fair the first conversion was good but negated by a penalty. Detroit still had a shot at the 1 seed and certainly the 2. Way too aggressive a call in my opinion. 

[stringer bell]

4 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Dan Campbell plays for the win instead of the tie and Detroit loses. To be fair the first conversion was good but negated by a penalty. Detroit still had a great shot at the 1 seed. Way too aggressive a call in my opinion. 

The refs said the tackle didn’t report as eligible, but both he and an additional lineman who came into the game spoke to the ref before the play. Not sure who was at fault for the penalty. 

[Aggies7]

6 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

The refs said the tackle didn’t report as eligible, but both he and an additional lineman who came into the game spoke to the ref before the play. Not sure who was at fault for the penalty. 

Some are saying it would have been illegal procedure anyway? Who knows 

[stringer bell]

30 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Some are saying it would have been illegal procedure anyway? Who knows 

If he reported as eligible, he wouldn’t have to be covered and would be allowed to go downfield. The replay shows both #68 and #70 going up to the ref. Did he report as eligible? The ref didn’t think so. 

[Parfigliano]

3 hours ago, stringer bell said:

If he reported as eligible, he wouldn’t have to be covered and would be allowed to go downfield. The replay shows both #68 and #70 going up to the ref. Did he report as eligible? The ref didn’t think so. 

Its fishy.  Why else go talk to ref when coming into game if not to report as eligible?

[stringer bell]

Pretty clear that the ref got the players wrong—#70 had come into the game as an eligible receiver a couple of times previous, but this time #68 (Decker) was the eligible guy. Lions got robbed IMHO.