2023 Vikings Regular Season Thread

[Mike Sixel]

51 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Yuck, no thanks. Mullens is the only one of the 3 who showed consistency moving the ball. It’s unfortunate that his mind goes bonkers and he turns the ball over too much with wild throws he shouldn’t make. I think at the end of the day, you go with the guy who can move the offense. They all turn it over way too much but Mullens at least has reasonable throwing accuracy

He's clearly the best of the three. 

[Aggies7]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

He's clearly the best of the three. 

And that’s certainly not high praise, but the team clearly felt he was good enough to back up Kirk two years in a row.
 

I don’t fault the Vikings for having him on the roster. In fact I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s back next year (although unlikely). Mullens would have been fine as a short stint fill in. Asking him or any backup quarterback  to play half a season, his shortcomings are going to be exposed. I just don’t think there are very many truly solid backups in the league. There aren’t even 20 solid starters.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

Yuck, no thanks. Mullens is the only one of the 3 who showed consistency moving the ball. It’s unfortunate that his mind goes bonkers and he turns the ball over too much with wild throws he shouldn’t make. I think at the end of the day, you go with the guy who can move the offense. They all turn it over way too much but Mullens at least has reasonable throwing accuracy

Moving the offense and losing , makes moving the offense pointless.

[Aggies7]

49 minutes ago, RpR said:

Moving the offense and losing , makes moving the offense pointless.

Yards can lead to points. That’s like saying getting hits is pointless if you don’t win. I’d rather the lineup that can get 8 hits on a nightly basis 

[RpR]

3 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Yards can lead to points. That’s like saying getting hits is pointless if you don’t win. I’d rather the lineup that can get 8 hits on a nightly basis 

Could have, would have, should have -- but didn't.

Little difference (with the exception of numbers on a score sheet) between and going 70 yards without scoring and going 17 yards without scoring.

 

[Aggies7]

25 minutes ago, RpR said:

Could have, would have, should have -- but didn't.

Little difference (with the exception of numbers on a score sheet) between and going 70 yards without scoring and going 17 yards without scoring.

 

They scored 48 points In mullens’ two starts. In dobbs last 3 starts, they scored 30 points. Dobbs was given a fair shot, he’s not owed anything 

[RpR]

8 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

They scored 48 points In mullens’ two starts. In dobbs last 3 starts, they scored 30 points. Dobbs was given a fair shot, he’s not owed anything 

Dobbs won games.

[gunnarthor]

17 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

JJ McCarthy with one of the worst interceptions you’ll see, right off the bat. Although negated by a penalty. He’ll fit right in in purple!

Maybe he'll look better in the Championship game.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I don’t know if O’Connell has announced his QB for next Sunday, but I would give it to Jaren Hall and let him play the whole game. I don’t know if they are still trying to evaluate Hall or not. If not, then sure release him in the offseason and go with Dobbs or Mullens this week instead. 

There are people in the league who can identify quarterback talent, though not every team has them. Green Bay seems to have it. Spielman didn’t have it. I would like to know if Adofo-Mensah is that guy or has people to rely on who can. 

I think in the NFL, you don’t necessarily have to go into deep rebuilds like in baseball. I am fine trying to re-sign Cousins for a discount, but that feels like win-next-year or else, to me. Also, a fourth place schedule next year would be really nice. There is quite a drop with teams like Arizona and Carolina.

[Parfigliano]

59 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I don’t know if O’Connell has announced his QB for next Sunday, but I would give it to Jaren Hall and let him play the whole game. I don’t know if they are still trying to evaluate Hall or not. If not, then sure release him in the offseason and go with Dobbs or Mullens this week instead. 

There are people in the league who can identify quarterback talent, though not every team has them. Green Bay seems to have it. Spielman didn’t have it. I would like to know if Adofo-Mensah is that guy or has people to rely on who can. 

I think in the NFL, you don’t necessarily have to go into deep rebuilds like in baseball. I am fine trying to re-sign Cousins for a discount, but that feels like win-next-year or else, to me. Also, a fourth place schedule next year would be really nice. There is quite a drop with teams like Arizona and Carolina.

Agree give Hall next week.  Nothing to lose by doing so.  Might as well use the opportunity to look see if there is anything there.

[Aggies7]

20 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Agree give Hall next week.  Nothing to lose by doing so.  Might as well use the opportunity to look see if there is anything there.

I think everyone knows what he has by now. He’s had training camps, preseason games, some in game action, practices. There’s nothing left to see. That’s why he was pulled at half time. He’s a third stringer. The only things you’re going to get by giving him another start are 1) blown out, which should matter to the rest of the players if they have any pride and 2) WRs in the hospital with his errant passes. He’s got no shot of being the backup next year. Maybe third at best, but that will probably be Mullens if they draft a QB behind kirk

[Mike Sixel]

29 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

I think everyone knows what he has by now. He’s had training camps, preseason games, some in game action, practices. There’s nothing left to see. That’s why he was pulled at half time. He’s a third stringer. The only things you’re going to get by giving him another start are 1) blown out, which should matter to the rest of the players if they have any pride and 2) WRs in the hospital with his errant passes. He’s got no shot of being the backup next year. Maybe third at best, but that will probably be Mullens if they draft a QB behind kirk

I mean, players do get better over time, sometimes....so he might be more someday, but ya, he's not close right now. I'd start Mullens, I guess. Yuck. It's not like he hasn't gotten JJ rocked a few times....

[Vanimal46]

I’m in no rush to see Jaren Hall play again. 

[Mike Sixel]

25 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I’m in no rush to see Jaren Hall play again. 

That was the first play I saw! And I knew.....he's not ready! That was....not good....

[nicksaviking]

5 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

I’m in no rush to see Jaren Hall play again. 

Yeah, so I think the errant throw is probably burying the led here. 

He had 15 yards of clear running on that play. After Cousins went down, they started winning because Dobbs was running around like my kids after eating birthday cake. I know that's not a viable long-term plan, but when you don't have any capable QBs why not do what was working when the occasions pop up to your advantage?

[wabene]

11 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

That was the first play I saw! And I knew.....he's not ready! That was....not good....

He's not ready? Sorry he just doesn't have the talent to be an NFL QB. Only 6 feet tall with a mediocre arm at best (looks less than mediocre to me). I don't understand the pick in the first place. If you want to try developing a QB prospect, how's about starting with an arm, some size and athleticism. 

[gunnarthor]

2 hours ago, wabene said:

He's not ready? Sorry he just doesn't have the talent to be an NFL QB. Only 6 feet tall with a mediocre arm at best (looks less than mediocre to me). I don't understand the pick in the first place. If you want to try developing a QB prospect, how's about starting with an arm, some size and athleticism. 

I don't mind the pick. Take a flyer on a guy like that. If he was 6'4" and had a rocket for an arm after throwing for 6000+ yards at BYU, he'd have been a first rounder, not a fifth rounder. I'd probably let him get the start next week because, why not? But I don't expect much from him. 

[wabene]

11 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I don't mind the pick. Take a flyer on a guy like that. If he was 6'4" and had a rocket for an arm after throwing for 6000+ yards at BYU, he'd have been a first rounder, not a fifth rounder. I'd probably let him get the start next week because, why not? But I don't expect much from him. 

I never liked the pick. I would've looked elsewhere. 6000 yards in college by a guy with his measurables? KAM thinks he's on to something others can't see? The guy I'm looking for in the late rounds is a raw, physically TALENTED guy playing in a system that couldn't/didn't develop him properly. That is the diamond in the rough. 

But hey, they are all a crapshoot, lol. 

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, wabene said:

He's not ready? Sorry he just doesn't have the talent to be an NFL QB. Only 6 feet tall with a mediocre arm at best (looks less than mediocre to me). I don't understand the pick in the first place. If you want to try developing a QB prospect, how's about starting with an arm, some size and athleticism. 

Most picks that late never play more than a game here and there.....I don't mind the pick either way.

As for your starting, whatever, ready/good enough/whatever...I think you are reading way too much into that simple post that was really about how bad the play was. As pointed out, he could have run half way to Wisconsin on that play......so much bad in that play.

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, wabene said:

I never liked the pick. I would've looked elsewhere. 6000 yards in college by a guy with his measurables? KAM thinks he's on to something others can't see? The guy I'm looking for in the late rounds is a raw, physically TALENTED guy playing in a system that couldn't/didn't develop him properly. That is the diamond in the rough. 

But hey, they are all a crapshoot, lol. 

I was interested in Hendon Hooker in round 3. But after Dorian Thompson Robinson went off the board in round 5, there was nobody left that I cared to roster even on a crapshoot. I don't think Hall was even projected to get drafted.

[nicksaviking]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Most picks that late never play more than a game here and there.....I don't mind the pick either way.

As for your starting, whatever, ready/good enough/whatever...I think you are reading way too much into that simple post that was really about how bad the play was. As pointed out, he could have run half way to Wisconsin on that play......so much bad in that play.

Bad history of success for sure. But even excluding Purdy from the discussion, how were undrafted Tommy DeVito and Tyson Bagent more prepared to play than Hall? Bagent played DII ball for Pete's sake.

Coaching or evaluation? Both? Not good.

[Mike Sixel]

11 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Bad history of success for sure. But even excluding Purdy from the discussion, how were undrafted Tommy DeVito and Tyson Bagent more prepared to play than Hall? Bagent played DII ball for Pete's sake.

Coaching or evaluation? Both? Not good.

Luck. Really, this idea that we can control and predict the future is over rated. They were all fliers, some worked a tiny bit, some did not. I get we all hate KAM's first draft....bu the second was not bad at all (esp. if you give them credit for Pace). But ripping a decision about any pick after round 3/4 is just ripping luck. If people thought guys they picked in round 5 or later were starters, they would have picked them before then. 

[nicksaviking]

44 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Luck. Really, this idea that we can control and predict the future is over rated. They were all fliers, some worked a tiny bit, some did not. I get we all hate KAM's first draft....bu the second was not bad at all (esp. if you give them credit for Pace). But ripping a decision about any pick after round 3/4 is just ripping luck. If people thought guys they picked in round 5 or later were starters, they would have picked them before then. 

I'm not ripping them for Hall being a bust, just that the two UDFA rookies could go in there and semi-competently finish a game. I don't think that's luck, I think they were better prepared. Those two will likely never see the field again, it's not like the Giants and Bears found diamonds in the rough. Aiden O'Connell and DTR haven't looked great, but they haven't looked completely confused either. Last year late round picks Bailey Zappe, Sam Howell, Skyler Thompson and of course Purdy all started games and none of them looked as ill equipped to play as Hall. The only rookie QB to start games from the last two years who looked as lost as Hall, was Malik Willis.

And sorry, I'm not giving Adofo-Mensah credit for drafting Pace. His third through sixth picks never see the field except on special teams. If I'm going to credit him for knowing that Pace would be a contributor than I have to fault him for thinking the same of the other busts. But mostly, Pace was one of the most high profile and most sought after UDFAs, he wasn't a secret that the GM cleverly outfoxed the league on. Pace coming to MN was most influenced by him knowing the LB group was so awful here, that it was his best shot at landing a full time job.

Kwesi has got to defer to someone else for drafting defensive players. Or if he already does, he needs new guys doing that job.

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm not ripping them for Hall being a bust, just that the two UDFA rookies could go in there and semi-competently finish a game. I don't think that's luck, I think they were better prepared. Those two will likely never see the field again, it's not like the Giants and Bears found diamonds in the rough. Aiden O'Connell and DTR haven't looked great, but they haven't looked completely confused either. Last year late round picks Bailey Zappe, Sam Howell, Skyler Thompson and of course Purdy all started games and none of them looked as ill equipped to play as Hall. The only rookie QB to start games from the last two years who looked as lost as Hall, was Malik Willis.

And sorry, I'm not giving Adofo-Mensah credit for drafting Pace. His third through sixth picks never see the field except on special teams. If I'm going to credit him for knowing that Pace would be a contributor than I have to fault him for thinking the same of the other busts. But mostly, Pace was one of the most high profile and most sought after UDFAs, he wasn't a secret that the GM cleverly outfoxed the league on. Pace coming to MN was most influenced by him knowing the LB group was so awful here, that it was his best shot at landing a full time job.

Kwesi has got to defer to someone else for drafting defensive players. Or if he already does, he needs new guys doing that job.

I'm not in love with his drafts at all.....I've said here, several times, impress me this off season, or lose your job.....(not that I think this happens, but I haven't seen any evidence he's good at his job). But that has nothing to do with luck after round 4.....

Pace was luck, just like anyone acquired after round 3/4......In some fairness, they did deal early picks for a great TE (who, sigh, is now hurt, possibly into next year). I hated not blowing up the team this year, but you can't do that after winning 11 games....you just can't. 

In any event, I'm just not going to care one way or the other if a 5-7th round pick is good or not. 

[gunnarthor]

30 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm not ripping them for Hall being a bust, just that the two UDFA rookies could go in there and semi-competently finish a game. I don't think that's luck, I think they were better prepared. Those two will likely never see the field again, it's not like the Giants and Bears found diamonds in the rough. Aiden O'Connell and DTR haven't looked great, but they haven't looked completely confused either. Last year late round picks Bailey Zappe, Sam Howell, Skyler Thompson and of course Purdy all started games and none of them looked as ill equipped to play as Hall. The only rookie QB to start games from the last two years who looked as lost as Hall, was Malik Willis.

And sorry, I'm not giving Adofo-Mensah credit for drafting Pace. His third through sixth picks never see the field except on special teams. If I'm going to credit him for knowing that Pace would be a contributor than I have to fault him for thinking the same of the other busts. But mostly, Pace was one of the most high profile and most sought after UDFAs, he wasn't a secret that the GM cleverly outfoxed the league on. Pace coming to MN was most influenced by him knowing the LB group was so awful here, that it was his best shot at landing a full time job.

Kwesi has got to defer to someone else for drafting defensive players. Or if he already does, he needs new guys doing that job.

I think KOC is a good coach. His team seems to love him, and he's a good offensive mind. That said, his weakness was amplified after Cousins left. He doesn't seem capable of changing his game plans for his QB's skills. The Giants coaches seemed to call a few different plays for Devito, for instance. 

As for Hall, this write up suggests he was a day 3 pick so probably not a reach. Just didn't work out. 

[nicksaviking]

48 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm not in love with his drafts at all.....I've said here, several times, impress me this off season, or lose your job.....(not that I think this happens, but I haven't seen any evidence he's good at his job). But that has nothing to do with luck after round 4.....

Pace was luck, just like anyone acquired after round 3/4......In some fairness, they did deal early picks for a great TE (who, sigh, is now hurt, possibly into next year). I hated not blowing up the team this year, but you can't do that after winning 11 games....you just can't. 

In any event, I'm just not going to care one way or the other if a 5-7th round pick is good or not. 

Yes, I failed to elaborate on my concern about Hall looking like a HS kid trying to compete with pros. It wasn't that the GM drafted the wrong guy it was that other coaches have been able to coax a competent showing from similar if not worse QBs. I was tossing that one on the coach.

The terrible roster, particularly the defense I'm putting squarely on the GM.

[wabene]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Luck. Really, this idea that we can control and predict the future is over rated. They were all fliers, some worked a tiny bit, some did not. I get we all hate KAM's first draft....bu the second was not bad at all (esp. if you give them credit for Pace). But ripping a decision about any pick after round 3/4 is just ripping luck. If people thought guys they picked in round 5 or later were starters, they would have picked them before then. 

I agree that the late rounds especially are a crapshoot. I am ripping their choice of Hall nonetheless. My bias for taller QBs with a good arm and wheels is all. All I ask, lol. Watching these guys play just makes me appreciate Kirk's arm. He has 2 of the 3 baseline things and is even faster relative to the league than is generally thought. He's just not a natural runner. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Yes, I failed to elaborate on my concern about Hall looking like a HS kid trying to compete with pros. It wasn't that the GM drafted the wrong guy it was that other coaches have been able to coax a competent showing from similar if not worse QBs. I was tossing that one on the coach.

The terrible roster, particularly the defense I'm putting squarely on the GM.

You wanted him to fix the defense in two years? There are all of two guys on the roster there that were on the team when he started. Two. That's almost impossible. That's how bad Spielman was. 

[Mike Sixel]

19 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You wanted him to fix the defense in two years? There are all of two guys on the roster there that were on the team when he started. Two. That's almost impossible. That's how bad Spielman was. 

Oops. I think there are four? legit starters from the past

[nicksaviking]

16 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You wanted him to fix the defense in two years? There are all of two guys on the roster there that were on the team when he started. Two. That's almost impossible. That's how bad Spielman was. 

He's drafted one defensive starter in two years. The defense will never be rebuilt at that rate.