What to do with Buxton.....

[NotAboutWinning]

10 hours ago, USAFChief said:

31 RBI.

If he doesn't hit a HR, he doesn't contribute much. And there's a whole lot of PAs where he doesn't hit a HR.

People will pooh-pooh RBI, but at the end of the day, runs are what win games, not OPS.

Gallo's an example of what an empty OPS looks like .

"Empty OPS" is the perfect description! I've not heard it put that way. It is spot on!

[insagt1]

Buck didn't play last night. Unfortunately his replacement looked just as bad. Of course he is a rookie so I suppose we need to give him some time, If thats what the Twins want. It was nice to see Twins actually score runs with men on base. Kirilloff has really found his stroke. He looks darned dangerous at the plate now. Kepler is still frustrating but he has delivered some hits lately. Correa has perked up a little. Time will tell if he is actually 'back'. Gallo is still Gallo just like Sano was. Vazquez is having a poor season overall. I'd like to see Twins give Jeffers a legitimate shot to be the #1. Julien is making it very difficult for Twins to even consider sending him down when Polanco returns, Guy is playing hard.

Buxton is not slumping. He has been off all season long. Right now, he is totally lost. His AB;s are vacant. He stares at strikes he could bash. He misses pitches he should be able to hit. Other than his little outburst with the bases loaded walk, his passion is missing. I am on the team that feels he is injured and needs to be shut down until he can be a complete player again....and honestly that may never happen with him. Putting Wallner in at DH is a tough assignment for the kid but TWins have to roll the dice on him if they feel he deserves to be up.

[stringer bell]

First and foremost, we fans can call for him to play center field as much as we want, but if he's not healthy enough, it isn't going to happen. A nearly two week stint on the IL for an unrelated injury (HBP to the ribs) didn't change the situation and I suspect putting him on the IL now also would not change the current situation that he is a DH only.

It is probably up to Buxton to try to make adjustments (given his current physical situation) to avoid these long dry spells and be a more productive and consistent hitter. It would appear that he needs a total reset to be a solid contributor. 

[HokieRif]

On 7/18/2023 at 1:20 PM, LA VIkes Fan said:

To me that opens the third possibility - play Buxton in left field.

Let’s throw some real chaos in here - put him in RF. Less ground to cover when playing at Target field and it could force the issue of moving Kepler to CF (or left… hell… Gallo was in CF the other night so we know we have more than one player willing to do it). 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

My bigger concern through this whole process is that there has not been any public discussion of him going to the IL.

So are they telling us that health-wise Buxton can not be "fixed" and this is what he is?  Considering the contract he is on, the Twins should be more concerned about the long-game.  If he needs surgery, get it done and get him healthy for next year.  If this is the new 100% for Buxton, the rest of this decade is going to be very taxing for Twins fans.

[HokieRif]

2 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

My bigger concern through this whole process is that there has not been any public discussion of him going to the IL.

This. I want someone to be honest and tell us he’s playing hurt, or if he’s just having a god-awful time at the plate. Just tell us so we can stop speculating. 

[KirbyDome89]

17 hours ago, SwainZag said:

You can use SSS all you want.  In his last 16 games which dates back to June 26 his line is : .216/.341/.649 with an OPS of .990 in 44 PA.  He is K'ing at 45% in that time stretch though.   It's certainly fueled by 5 HR in that span, but it's hardly unplayable.  

May to present day is nearly half a season, is that really a SSS? The primary issue is that when those HRs dry up, and they will, what you're left with is unplayable. 

[SoDakTwinsFan]

This might be a dumb question but I know his contract his some "step ups" in it meaning if he does "x" he gets a bonus.  Are games played part of his potential bonus money?  And if yes does it matter if it is as DH or in CF?  Would that be a factor as to why they continue to play him so he gets paid?

[SwainZag]

2 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

May to present day is nearly half a season, is that really a SSS? The primary issue is that when those HRs dry up, and they will, what you're left with is unplayable. 

I don't really consider June 26th in May, but okay.  Assuming the HR dry up, yeah he's unplayable, but isn't that just a guess that they will dry up?  He's always been a 3 outcome player.  I'm not advocating for Gallo, all I am saying is it's really easy to use a SSS to your advantage.  If Wallner wants the playing time, he is going to have to produce when he's in the lineup and take advantage....and I'm hoping this happens.

[Mike Sixel]

43 minutes ago, HokieRif said:

This. I want someone to be honest and tell us he’s playing hurt, or if he’s just having a god-awful time at the plate. Just tell us so we can stop speculating. 

They've told us he's hurt and can't play CF because he's not healthy. What more do you want?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Form Rosenthal’s column/chat today: 

“And the team still plans for Buxton, at some point, to stop DHing exclusively, and play center field.”

Context was the upcoming trade deadline, meaning: this season. 

[HokieRif]

35 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

They've told us he's hurt and can't play CF because he's not healthy. What more do you want?

I want to know why he’s still being allowed to bat. It’s clear he’s not good enough to be playing in the majors right now. I want to know if this is related to the same issue that’s preventing him from playing CF, a different injury, or if he’s really just not a great player right now. 

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, HokieRif said:

I want to know why he’s still being allowed to bat. It’s clear he’s not good enough to be playing in the majors right now. I want to know if this is related to the same issue that’s preventing him from playing CF, a different injury, or if he’s really just not a great player right now. 

Well, it's really none of our business what his medical condition specifically is. 

And, is there ANY doubt his health is effecting his hitting? How would anyone think otherwise (or know that it isn't and that he's just bad now, somehow)?

[HokieRif]

25 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Form Rosenthal’s column/chat today: 

“And the team still plans for Buxton, at some point, to stop DHing exclusively, and play center field.”

Context was the upcoming trade deadline, meaning: this season. 

I don’t believe it at all, but I also don’t believe anyone hitting below the Mendoza line at this point in the season should be a regular starter which is in contrast to the current thinking by our manager and front office. 

[HokieRif]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

Well, it's really none of our business what his medical condition specifically is. 

And, is there ANY doubt his health is effecting his hitting? How would anyone think otherwise (or know that it isn't and that he's just bad now, somehow)?

This is my point though - we don’t know because the team isn’t saying anything other than he’s not healthy. At this point I have to believe that pitch he took to the ribs earlier this season broke a few bones and he hasn’t recovered. But all we can do is speculate. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, HokieRif said:

This is my point though - we don’t know because the team isn’t saying anything other than he’s not healthy. At this point I have to believe that pitch he took to the ribs earlier this season broke a few bones and he hasn’t recovered. But all we can do is speculate. 

What would change if they were EVEN MORE CLEAR that he was hurt? What would change for fans at all? They've said he's not healthy. They've said it is effecting him. 

[HokieRif]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

What would change if they were EVEN MORE CLEAR that he was hurt? What would change for fans at all? They've said he's not healthy. They've said it is effecting him. 

Sympathy and the absence of mental anguish. I want to know why he’s injured enough to excuse his poor play (if there is an excuse) but not injured enough to be on the DL. 

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, SwainZag said:

I don't really consider June 26th in May, but okay.  Assuming the HR dry up, yeah he's unplayable, but isn't that just a guess that they will dry up?  He's always been a 3 outcome player.  I'm not advocating for Gallo, all I am saying is it's really easy to use a SSS to your advantage.  If Wallner wants the playing time, he is going to have to produce when he's in the lineup and take advantage....and I'm hoping this happens.

No, May up until now (present day) is the sample I'm using. He has a .681 OPS over that time. That's 2.5+ months, so nearly half a season.  Is that small? We don't have to assume the HRs dry up, look back across the last few months, they do. I too hope that somebody "wrestles," some OF starts away from Gallo. 

[ashbury]

47 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

What would change if they were EVEN MORE CLEAR that he was hurt? What would change for fans at all? They've said he's not healthy. They've said it is effecting him. 

Mid-career I got this advice from a boss, when seeking help in a customer support situation: "what would they do with that information if you gave it to them?" I was stuck for an answer, and never forgot it.  This "fan support situation" feels the same to me.  Sure, I'd like to know more, but what would I really do with the information if I had it?

[PDX Twin]

21 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

That OPS is entirely HR driven, and still heavily inflated by April numbers. I've called it empty in other threads. Since May his OPS is under .700 with a 43% K rate to boot. The average is abysmal, and his OBP is below average. He's an offensive black hole a vast majority of the time. He only provides value when he's clustering HRs, and that happens far too infrequently. I absolutely have watched Gallo's ABs during this stretch and thought the guy was unplayable, but YMMV. 

 

If Gallo's OPS is satisfactory, but most of us see his performance as unsatisfactory, does that mean that we're wrong or is it possible that OPS is not a perfect measure of a better's value?

[Road trip]

17 minutes ago, PDX Twin said:

If Gallo's OPS is satisfactory, but most of us see his performance as unsatisfactory, does that mean that we're wrong or is it possible that OPS is not a perfect measure of a better's value?

Gallo's at .5 WAR, that's enough to show he has been bad, for those who prefer advanced stats.

For those that like traditional stats he is nearly 50 pts below Sano's career batting average, and many on here though that Sano struck out too much!

I've moved past the point of worrying whether Gallo helps the Twins win or not.  I just know as a fan I am sick of watching Gallo take strikes down the middle every single at bat.  I would rather see any other Twin at the plate with a runner on 3rd base and less than two outs... and that may include the pitchers.

[Craig Arko]

27 minutes ago, PDX Twin said:

If Gallo's OPS is satisfactory, but most of us see his performance as unsatisfactory, does that mean that we're wrong or is it possible that OPS is not a perfect measure of a better's value?

Yes.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

Mid-career I got this advice from a boss, when seeking help in a customer support situation: "what would they do with that information if you gave it to them?" I was stuck for an answer, and never forgot it.  This "fan support situation" feels the same to me.  Sure, I'd like to know more, but what would I really do with the information if I had it?

The information about Buxton must be pretty damning, then. Damning to someone. 

[Mike Sixel]

21 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

The information about Buxton must be pretty damning, then. Damning to someone. 

He;s hurt. It is no big conspiracy. Why is that so hard to believe?

[ashbury]

27 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

The information about Buxton must be pretty damning, then. Damning to someone. 

Whew, that's about 180 degrees opposite of my little anecdote, not that my anecdote has any direct bearing.  The information my customer was asking was difficult to obtain and I was seeking help to unearth it, in I suppose a spirit of "the customer is always right", only to have my perspective turned around to what was an equally important question.

I don't expect further and further layers of information about Buxton to be damning, merely quantities of conflicting and uncertain medical data, coming back to "well, this might work, or it might not," from professionals with considerable experience in such matters.  Medicine is not an exact science.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Ok, I'll try again, a little bit more kindly.

2 hours ago, ashbury said:

Sure, I'd like to know more, but what would I really do with the information if I had it?

Here are some valid uses of that information: I would feel better; I would explain it so my kid understands; I would think about going to a game when Buxton is back in the field, and so on

 

[lecroy24fan]

4 hours ago, HokieRif said:

Let’s throw some real chaos in here - put him in RF. Less ground to cover when playing at Target field and it could force the issue of moving Kepler to CF (or left… hell… Gallo was in CF the other night so we know we have more than one player willing to do it). 

If you really want chaos, 1B is available on quite a few days...

[ashbury]

6 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Ok, I'll try again, a little bit more kindly.

Here are some valid uses of that information: I would feel better; I would explain it so my kid understands; I would think about going to a game when Buxton is back in the field, and so on

 

Dream on, my friend.  I doubt the information exists that will make you feel better, is explainable, or guides you in buying a ticket.  The information they would share would be just that much more inscrutable.

[KirbyDome89]

2 hours ago, ashbury said:

Mid-career I got this advice from a boss, when seeking help in a customer support situation: "what would they do with that information if you gave it to them?" I was stuck for an answer, and never forgot it.  This "fan support situation" feels the same to me.  Sure, I'd like to know more, but what would I really do with the information if I had it?

He's not healthy enough to spend any amount of time in CF and he's struggling badly at the plate, but there's no IL stint in sight. His injuries haven't progressed through 100ish games, but now, as the wear and tear mounts, they're eyeing a return to CF post deadline? What we're hearing seems to conflict with what we're seeing. I'm not expecting a release of medical records but the Twins have certainly invited speculation/criticism with their handling of the situation. 

It's not like Buxton is helping the team right now, quite the opposite actually, and he's entrenched in the most easily replaceable position on the team. Are injuries not the primary culprit for his woes at the plate, and are we supposed to believe that whatever has held him out is better after another 2-3 weeks? Is this just Buxton being stubborn about an IL stint and the team giving in? 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

3 hours ago, HokieRif said:

I don’t believe it at all, but I also don’t believe anyone hitting below the Mendoza line at this point in the season should be a regular starter which is in contrast to the current thinking by our manager and front office. 

The most likely explanation in my opinion is that Buxton is healthy (if not 100%) and he is waiting to go back out into the field until the very end. I mean, there's some merit in that idea. Back in early May, everyone wanted to talk about how brilliant this move was. Unfortunately but maybe predictably, it has backfired. It could still turn spectacularly in the Twins favor, and I think that's what they are praying for.