Game Thread: Twins (Varland) @ Blue Jays (Gausman), 6/11/23 @ 12:37 CT

[BiggestRoccoFan]

17 minutes ago, Sutter50 said:

38 pitches Friday 

So what.

Friday was 2 days ago.

[chpettit19]

Just now, BiggestRoccoFan said:

It is.

Make your players play.

They are professionals. 

Stop coddling them.

 

It's a horrible strategy. You do realize that what you do today effects what you can do tomorrow, right? How'd it work out when they overworked the back of their pen last year? I assume you were good with it then, right? Nothing bad happened from that, right? Pretending tomorrow doesn't matter is an absolutely awful strategy, and no MLB team does it.

[Sutter50]

I'm not here to defend Pagan  I think he should be let go. For this game he was going to pitch  and it would be pitch him against the bottom of the order or in the 9th.lesser of 2 evils and it didn't work

[chpettit19]

Just now, rwilfong86 said:

Considering we aren't on the 40 man roster that isn't a logical question, is it? 

But suggesting there's literally nobody who's a worse option isn't really logical either, is it? Josh Winder hasn't been good at any level this year. I understand Pagan's struggles with high leverage spots. But suggesting that Winder is just going to magically be good for an inning because he isn't Pagan isn't logical either.

[Sutter50]

1 minute ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

So what.

Friday was 2 days ago.

38 high stress pitches over 2 innings.

[BiggestRoccoFan]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Are you a better option? Am I? I mean come on. I don't want Pagan on the team. But let's be realistic about things here. He's thrown 3 high leverage innings in 66 games. They were short handed for 1 game. Why does every loss have to be some big thing? Can't we just say "dang, it sucks they were short handed today, and it's never ideal to have Pagan in a high leverage spot, just have to flush this L and go get'em Tuesday?"

This is what is wrong with Minnesota sports fans and I am one of them.

One loss does not have to be some big thing but when you get a chance to sweep a good team on the road you put the foot on the gas and sweep them.

If you want to just sweep this one under the rug then there is no reason for us to respond to each other.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

So what.

Friday was 2 days ago.

Well shoot, Ryan only threw 84 pitches yesterday so let's start him Wednesday. I'm going to that game so I'd like to see him. He's one of their top 2 pitchers so just throw him. Worry about Thursday on Thursday, just play to win Wednesday. 

[Dave Borton]

Read thru the posts and glad I missed this one -- gardening. Corn is finally in.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

This is what is wrong with Minnesota sports fans and I am one of them.

One loss does not have to be some big thing but when you get a chance to sweep a good team on the road you put the foot on the gas and sweep them.

If you want to just sweep this one under the rug then there is no reason for us to respond to each other.

Yeah, it's truly terrible to be realistic about things. Why not throw Duran every game? Really they should only need like a 5 man staff. Quit coddling guys. They don't need rest. Just let them play. A sweep of this series is definitely more important than winning any games in the next series. Definitely. No need to worry about that.

[Craig Arko]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

Well shoot, Ryan only threw 84 pitches yesterday so let's start him Wednesday. I'm going to that game so I'd like to see him. He's one of their top 2 pitchers so just throw him. Worry about Thursday on Thursday, just play to win Wednesday. 

3 man rotations could be the next big thing.

[rwilfong86]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

But suggesting there's literally nobody who's a worse option isn't really logical either, is it? Josh Winder hasn't been good at any level this year. I understand Pagan's struggles with high leverage spots. But suggesting that Winder is just going to magically be good for an inning because he isn't Pagan isn't logical either.

The logic for considering Winder a better option than Pagan is twofold. 

1) Pagan is arguably the worst reliever in MLB history at giving up homeruns.

2) Winder was fresh. 

I doubt if Winder was warming up in the bullpen the collective feeling would be absolute dread like it is with Pagan. But it's pointless to carry this on further. It's a bad loss. Onto the Milwaukee series and hopefully better days ahead. 

[Sutter50]

Just now, Craig Arko said:

3 man rotations could be the next big thing.

Yeah burn em out in 2 months, get 3 more from St Paul ,burn them up , get Witchita ' s best 3 and finish the season up with the CR kernels best 3

[chpettit19]

Just now, Craig Arko said:

3 man rotations could be the next big thing.

I'm all in. Little did I know, the human arm doesn't need time to recover from throwing a baseball 100+ MPH 2 dozen times. Ice pack, a couple ibuprofens, and get back out there, big boy! Imagine how good this team could be with Gray, Ryan, Ober as their rotation, and Lopez (Pablo), Duran, Varland as their pen. They could platoon all 9 spots in the batting order, and carry a 3rd catcher and pinch runner still. We may be onto something. I'll email Falvey.

[BiggestRoccoFan]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Yeah, it's truly terrible to be realistic about things. Why not throw Duran every game? Really they should only need like a 5 man staff. Quit coddling guys. They don't need rest. Just let them play. A sweep of this series is definitely more important than winning any games in the next series. Definitely. No need to worry about that.

You go look at how all of the good teams out there are managed and use their players and then come back and argue with me.

[wsnydes]

2 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

The logic for considering Winder a better option than Pagan is twofold. 

1) Pagan is arguably the worst reliever in MLB history at giving up homeruns.

2) Winder was fresh. 

I doubt if Winder was warming up in the bullpen the collective feeling would be absolute dread like it is with Pagan. But it's pointless to carry this on further. It's a bad loss. Onto the Milwaukee series and hopefully better days ahead. 

In 27 IP this season, that was only the second HR he's given up.  

[Sutter50]

2 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

The logic for considering Winder a better option than Pagan is twofold. 

1) Pagan is arguably the worst reliever in MLB history at giving up homeruns.

2) Winder was fresh. 

I doubt if Winder was warming up in the bullpen the collective feeling would be absolute dread like it is with Pagan. But it's pointless to carry this on further. It's a bad loss. Onto the Milwaukee series and hopefully better days ahead. 

We aren't supposed to care about the dread on this board right?

[chpettit19]

Just now, rwilfong86 said:

The logic for considering Winder a better option than Pagan is twofold. 

1) Pagan is arguably the worst reliever in MLB history at giving up homeruns.

2) Winder was fresh. 

I doubt if Winder was warming up in the bullpen the collective feeling would be absolute dread like it is with Pagan. But it's pointless to carry this on further. It's a bad loss. Onto the Milwaukee series and hopefully better days ahead. 

Pagan was also fresh. Hadn't thrown since Tuesday. If being fresh is a point for Winder it's a point for Pagan. Winder coming into the 8th in that game would've given me the exact same feeling of impending doom Pagan did. It's a tough loss, no doubt. But they happen. We all want Pagan gone because you can't shield anyone from high leverage spots all year. Same reason I want someone better than Winder in the pen. But Pagan has been in 3 high leverage spots in 66 games. If it happens once every 22 games we should be able to handle it better than this.

[Craig Arko]

2 minutes ago, Sutter50 said:

Yeah burn em out in 2 months, get 3 more from St Paul ,burn them up , get Witchita ' s best 3 and finish the season up with the CR kernels best 3

No, burn em out and then trade them for prospects. Haven’t you been paying attention?

[Craig Arko]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm all in. Little did I know, the human arm doesn't need time to recover from throwing a baseball 100+ MPH 2 dozen times. Ice pack, a couple ibuprofens, and get back out there, big boy! Imagine how good this team could be with Gray, Ryan, Ober as their rotation, and Lopez (Pablo), Duran, Varland as their pen. They could platoon all 9 spots in the batting order, and carry a 3rd catcher and pinch runner still. We may be onto something. I'll email Falvey.

Right behind the contraction request email.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

You go look at how all of the good teams out there are managed and use their players and then come back and argue with me.

You're kidding, right? Go find me the last time a closer threw 38 pitches over 2 innings, and then threw again within the next 2 days. Just 1 example. That's all I want. If you're going to make big claims you better have some data close at hand to back it up. Prove your point with 1 single example.

[Sutter50]

1 minute ago, Craig Arko said:

No, burn em out and then trade them for prospects. Haven’t you been paying attention?

Oops I forgot 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Craig Arko said:

Right behind the contraction request email.

I've been calling for them to be contracted, and the Rays to be moved to Target Field for months. Still waiting to hear back from Manfred. I'm sure he's just running it past legal.

[Craig Arko]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I've been calling for them to be contracted, and the Rays to be moved to Target Field for months. Still waiting to hear back from Manfred. I'm sure he's just running it past legal.

Maybe they need to figure out how to move the Twins to South Korea first.

[chpettit19]

Just now, Craig Arko said:

Maybe they need to figure out how to move the Twins to South Korea first.

I assume Mr. Park is demanding a spot back on the squad if that's to happen, and his agent is probably playing hardball in negotiations. 

[wsnydes]

16 minutes ago, davidborton said:

Read thru the posts and glad I missed this one -- gardening. Corn is finally in.

Just read through the first 10 pages or so.  It was a pretty good thread up to that point.

[Squirrel]

16 minutes ago, davidborton said:

Read thru the posts and glad I missed this one -- gardening. Corn is finally in.

The first part was lots of fun. This aftermath … not so much

[MMMordabito]

Who decided it would be a good idea to put Pagan into the game with a two run lead in the bottom of the eighth?

[Sutter50]

1 minute ago, MMMordabito said:

Who decided it would be a good idea to put Pagan into the game with a two run lead in the bottom of the eighth?

Who would you put in?

[Squirrel]

This thread was a GREAT thread up until a couple pages ago. Now y’all are just bickering to bicker. Losing sucks. Agree to disagree on the how’s and why’s and move back to your corners and take a breath. Game threads are not here for you to crap all over the place.

[Dave Borton]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

This thread was a GREAT thread up until a couple pages ago. Now y’all are just bickering to bicker. . .

That's where I quit reading. Each 'side' made their point. Once that's done, move on. I don't have to prove you 'wrong,' and me 'right.' We can just disagree. It's a ballgame after all.

It's why I post with my name. It helps me remember to respect you and post only remarks which I would say in person to you. I can disagree with you but I hope not to be disagreeable. If I cross that line with any of you, please message me and we can work it out.

Boards are one dimensional. We can't see the twinkle in one's eye, we don't know when you are pulling my bobber, and the tone can escalate.

Go Twins. And let me tell you about Pagan (winks)...