Game Thread: Twins (Varland) @ Blue Jays (Gausman), 6/11/23 @ 12:37 CT

[Squirrel]

3 minutes ago, davidborton said:

That's where I quit reading. Each 'side' made their point. Once that's done, move on. I don't have to prove you 'wrong,' and me 'right.' We can just disagree. It's a ballgame after all.

It's why I post with my name. It helps me remember to respect you and post only remarks which I would say in person to you. I can disagree with you but I hope not to be disagreeable. If I cross that line with any of you, please message me and we can work it out.

Boards are one dimensional. We can't see the twinkle in one's eye, we don't know when you are pulling my bobber, and the tone can escalate.

Go Twins. And let me tell you about Pagan (winks)...

That’s a great way to look at it. Thanks.

And take yourself to the DQ for that most excellent response 🙂

[wsnydes]

3 minutes ago, davidborton said:

That's where I quit reading. Each 'side' made their point. Once that's done, move on. I don't have to prove you 'wrong,' and me 'right.' We can just disagree. It's a ballgame after all.

It's why I post with my name. It helps me remember to respect you and post only remarks which I would say in person to you. I can disagree with you but I hope not to be disagreeable. If I cross that line with any of you, please message me and we can work it out.

Boards are one dimensional. We can't see the twinkle in one's eye, we don't know when you are pulling my bobber, and the tone can escalate.

Go Twins. And let me tell you about Pagan (winks)...

I wish I could 'like' this more than once.

But I've heard everything there is to hear about Pagan, so I'll pass on that thank you very much! 🙂

[Cave Bear]

2 hours ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

Stop blaming this loss on the offense because they did enough today. 

This is a horrible loss and this is all on Rocco period.

I am not even blaming Pagan because he should have never been put in that situation to begin with.

This manager just continues to throw games away.

Stop being happy about winning 2-3 games when we should have swept them.

Rocco has to go and fast.

 

All he can do is look at his clipboard and make all his decisions based on that. For someone who played as a professional he has about the least baseball acumen of any manager in the game.

[RpR]

Pagan gave up one of two three run home runs; remove the first and Twins win.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

4 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Pagan being forced into a high leverage spot is never good. Have to score the insurance run from 3rd with no outs late in the game. Can't throw it a mile over the 1B head on a routine grounder to 3rd. Have to turn the inning ending double play with 1st and 3rd. Tough loss. But they should've loss the 2 previous games so let's keep some perspective here. They stole 2, and gave 1 away. They won the series. The sky isn't falling.

The sky opened up here in North Carolina shortly after the Twins blew the 5 run lead.

[BiggestRoccoFan]

5 hours ago, insagt1 said:

Pagan is useless. He was useless last year and he is useless again this year. Why the Twins still see value in this guy is way beyond me. A simply miserable performance.

Why does the manager continue to use him in those situations.

That is the bigger question.

[Squirrel]

5 minutes ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

Why does the manager continue to use him in those situations.

That is the bigger question.

Enough now. You have hammered at this enough and I already told you to move on. 

[insagt1]

it was disappointing that our pitcher couldn't retire hitters 7 8 and 9 in that spot for sure. I think having watched baseball for over 60 years, that starting pitchers have devolved (or managers are afraid to use them like they used to) The complete game is gone gone gone. If a starter goes 6  innings anymore, thats news. Pitchers can't seem to get guys out anymore unless they are throwing 100 mph. No wonder you don't see relievers being able to pitch as much. The whole pitching dynamic has changed. I watched the O's 4 starters each win 20 games one season. They pitched a ton of innings. Bullpens weren't stressed as much when a starter completed 20-25 games. You rarely heard of a reliever being 'not available' to pitch in any game.

Some pitchers (like hitters) thrive in high pressure situations. (I know the metrics folks will argue thats not true but I always use the eye test..works for me) Pagan just seems to 'find' spots where he doesn't succeed. Yesterday he really failed. When you blow a 6-1 lead people notice.

Overall the Twins have battled incredible amounts of injuries this season. They really are nothing more than a .500 team and the Central Division hasn't caught up yet. But they will. And too many of the 'regulars' who do play are having poor seasons so far. When healthy, guys like Buxton, Correa, Gallo etc have to be better. Its a long season and so far Twins have gotten away with mediocrity. Chew on this one: the Brewers just got swept by the A's...who were 12-50 coming in. Think they will be mad as hornets taking on the Twins?

Pagan aside, Twins have a lot of other issues to deal with. For me, the big one is trying to keep players off the IL. Then the 'k' problem, which is huge. Then what to do with Buxton, who is becoming just a less than stellar liability due to his fragile body.

If the guys are still in 1st by the ASG, I'll be happy.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, insagt1 said:

starting pitchers have devolved

I don’t think they’ve devolved. I think they throw harder than ever before, and now we are seeing the other side of that … that they can’t go as deep as they regularly did because of the physical toll on their bodies.

[Shaitan]

On 6/11/2023 at 2:16 PM, NotAboutWinning said:

DuckDuckGo!

I've been on Chrome for so long I honestly just forget I have choices.

[insagt1]

Some of the oldies threw the ball pretty hard...Nolan Ryan, Bob Feller, Drysdale, Koufax, Pedro M, and of course many others. However lets agree that today all the starters seem to want to throw the ball thru a brick wall. Has that helped the game? Or the athlete? Is it necessary? Do the fans enjoy k after k after k? I'd sure like having starters go 8 and 9 innings again.

Sidenote: when I was much younger a guy named Steve Dalkowsky pitched briefly for the Red Wings. Saw him throw a few games. His fastball was about 110 mph and nobody had a clue where it was going. Joe Altobelli was assigned to room with him on the road. He had a BUNCH of stories to tell. The guy was a legend but couldn't control his pitches.