Nick Gordon heading to the IL

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Lee isn't ready yet and Lewis is a better infielder than Julien or Miranda. They're not going to move the plus fielder to the outfield to put the minus fielder in the infield. That makes no sense.

To me Julien and Miranda don't even play into the "right now" (end of May) move. It's Farmer he's replacing. And, assuming they're not going to put Buxton in CF anytime soon, it's Taylor he'd be replacing in CF. Both of those guys are good defenders, but Farmer is the better hitter. I'd rather have Lewis in CF and Farmer at 3B than Lewis at 3B and Taylor in CF in terms of getting the best possible team on the field.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

Yes, I'd like to see Lewis back in the outfield, too. But we might have a Manny Machado situation here. Machado was ballyhooed as a shortstop when he came up to the Orioles, but the vacancy was at third base. Manny went there and except for a few fill-ins has stayed a third baseman. Royce could be the same and I think his bat would play anywhere. 

I'm okay with Lewis filling in at 3rd base this year, but, with Lee coming up, I'm slotting him there. Leaving Lewis with? CF, imo. I'd like him to have some reps out there this year, not sure how often, but I think that's where the need is and that's where he's likely to be after this season. But, I really don't know. If Buxton really can't play out there, then someone has to.

[stringer bell]

12 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

To me Julien and Miranda don't even play into the "right now" (end of May) move. It's Farmer he's replacing. And, assuming they're not going to put Buxton in CF anytime soon, it's Taylor he'd be replacing in CF. Both of those guys are good defenders, but Farmer is the better hitter. I'd rather have Lewis in CF and Farmer at 3B than Lewis at 3B and Taylor in CF in terms of getting the best possible team on the field.

I don't think there's much difference going forward between Taylor's offense and Farmer's. They are the same age and both have lifetime OPS+ numbers in the 80s. Farmer is an okay gloveman, but certainly not a candidate for a gold glove, Taylor did win an gold glove and looks to be well above average at a key position. Right now, Taylor's backup is......Willi Castro? Farmer's backup is......Willi Castro. Lewis has played some in the outfield (I think he got a few games in when he was in the AFL), but the bulk of his time has come in the infield (almost all at shortstop). He'll probably get about a half dozen games at third in his rehab, and I think third will be the better fit for this season. 

Farmer definitely should be getting short end of platoon at-bats against left handed pitching. His OPS against left handed pitching is very good in his career and was even better in 2022. He's hit very well since returning from the IL, but unless he sustains that until when Lewis can be activated, I would guess it is a small sample size phenomenon. Play Lewis at third base if all goes well during his rehab.

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I don't think there's much difference going forward between Taylor's offense and Farmer's. They are the same age and both have lifetime OPS+ numbers in the 80s. Farmer is an okay gloveman, but certainly not a candidate for a gold glove, Taylor did win an gold glove and looks to be well above average at a key position. Right now, Taylor's backup is......Willi Castro? Farmer's backup is......Willi Castro. Lewis has played some in the outfield (I think he got a few games in when he was in the AFL), but the bulk of his time has come in the infield (almost all at shortstop). He'll probably get about a half dozen games at third in his rehab, and I think third will be the better fit for this season. 

Farmer definitely should be getting short end of platoon at-bats against left handed pitching. His OPS against left handed pitching is very good in his career and was even better in 2022. He's hit very well since returning from the IL, but unless he sustains that until when Lewis can be activated, I would guess it is a small sample size phenomenon. Play Lewis at third base if all goes well during his rehab.

Who are you planning to sit against lefties then? Lewis? Or putting Lewis or Farmer at 1B for Kirilloff? You're sitting Kirilloff or Lewis in favor of Taylor and his current .160/.276/.320/.596 quad-slash against lefties. Or do you put Lewis in CF then? At that point there's really no reason to not put him in there against righties if Farmer is still better than Taylor against them.

If Farmer maintains his hitting, or even is anywhere close to maintaining it, for 10 more days what do you do then? Sit him and play Taylor? We're not talking months, we're not even talking 2 weeks before Lewis can come back. We may just have to agree to disagree here. I don't think it's even particularly close at this point in time, and likely won't be in 2 weeks, that the best overall team the Twins can put out there is with Farmer at 3B and Lewis in CF.

And, just for the record, Lewis has 85 OF innings in his professional career. And he's looked really good out there. Some pretty impressive highlights.

[stringer bell]

I'm wondering who is on a plane to LAX right now. Someone on the Saints roster must be on their way and people know, but so far, I haven't seen anything to indicate who Gordon's immediate replacement will be.

[stringer bell]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Who are you planning to sit against lefties then? Lewis? Or putting Lewis or Farmer at 1B for Kirilloff? You're sitting Kirilloff or Lewis in favor of Taylor and his current .160/.276/.320/.596 quad-slash against lefties. Or do you put Lewis in CF then? At that point there's really no reason to not put him in there against righties if Farmer is still better than Taylor against them.

If Farmer maintains his hitting, or even is anywhere close to maintaining it, for 10 more days what do you do then? Sit him and play Taylor? We're not talking months, we're not even talking 2 weeks before Lewis can come back. We may just have to agree to disagree here. I don't think it's even particularly close at this point in time, and likely won't be in 2 weeks, that the best overall team the Twins can put out there is with Farmer at 3B and Lewis in CF.

And, just for the record, Lewis has 85 OF innings in his professional career. And he's looked really good out there. Some pretty impressive highlights.

Yes, we will. I think giving Polanco days off against left handed pitchers makes sense and giving Lewis a day here and there against a left might work. There's really no one other than Solano to put on a first baseman's mitt to sit Kirilloff. Like everyone else, moving Buxton off the DH role seems to make finding good matchups easier, but I sincerely doubt we'll see him in the field for quite a while. 

[glunn]

Was Gordon wearing a shin guard?  I would note that Farmer is now wearing a helmet that protects his jaw and this does not seem to be impairing his ability to bat.  I hate preventable injuries.

[Jocko87]

2 hours ago, glunn said:

Was Gordon wearing a shin guard?  I would note that Farmer is now wearing a helmet that protects his jaw and this does not seem to be impairing his ability to bat.  I hate preventable injuries.

No but I think it hit high on the leg. It doesn’t matter how much gear you wear, the ball finds the hole.  I feel like the sta-puff guy when I go behind the plate and have like 5 welts as I type this. I think one of the Dodgers hit himself between the foot and leg guard?

[stringer bell]

3 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I'm wondering who is on a plane to LAX right now. Someone on the Saints roster must be on their way and people know, but so far, I haven't seen anything to indicate who Gordon's immediate replacement will be.

Miranda, Julien, Contreras and Wallner all are in the starting lineup for the Saints. I’d put a couple of virtual dollars on Kyle Garlick being recalled for tomorrow’s game against the Angels. Lewis is playing third, hitting third incidentally. 

[D.C Twins]

5 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Lee isn't a minus fielder, btw. Miranda is, clearly.....as is Julien. I'm talking long term, but even short term....they need a CF that can hit, not just field and run. Short and long term.....

Yep... they have one... an all star actually.... but alas.....

[Craig Arko]

38 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Miranda, Julien, Contreras and Wallner all are in the starting lineup for the Saints. I’d put a couple of virtual dollars on Kyle Garlick being recalled for tomorrow’s game against the Angels. Lewis is playing third, hitting third incidentally. 

Sounds like you virtually win.

[DocBauer]

I know we got kind of off topic with the whole "future lineup" issue here, but I have to throw my $.02 in here.

NOW: (Lewis off the 60 day)

Farmer is doing a great job. And I know he's worked on some things to hopefully hit RHP better. But Lewis is special, and part of the future. For now, he stays on the dirt playing 3B and maybe some SS. He's happy, his agent is happy, the Twins are happy, and OF can be revisited next year. Farmer plays a ton, but as the excellent utility player he is.

THE FUTURE:

The future is hard to predict as it comes with questions about Polanco being kept...who I love and is a great ballplayer...and what happens with Buxton.

I don't like having a full time, or near full time DH, unless they are pretty special. In his first POTENTIAL shift to primary DH...I think he'll still play a little OF going forward...here's how Buxton projects as of now:

.236/ .341/ .493/ .834 quad slash.

112 R/ 35 Dbls/ 4 Trips/ 36 HR/ 84 RBI/ 16 SB

Obviously, RUNS and RBI could shift depending on where he bats most often. That's a pretty special DH!

Lee, Correa, Lewis, Kirilloff is the very best INF as I see it playing out. But no room for Polanco, and Julien might be limited (unless he can play a passable LF to increase flexibility), and not sure there's enough AB to go around for Miranda or not at 1B/3B/DH.

Now, if Buxton ends up being at least a part time OF, suddenly the DH spot opens up more for Julien and Miranda, and others, as the DH spot becomes a little more flexible.

If Lewis moves to ANY of the OF spots...and he's got the tools to play all 3 if his wheels are still intact, including CF...then 2B opens up for Julien, and there's much more room for Miranda on a regular basis. The infield defense drops slightly, but the lineup is deeper and better. 

Still no room, as I see it, for Polanco past 2024. And Martin, if and when he's healthy and ready to take the next step, moves to the OF, IMO, and can be a starter in LF or CF...possibly with Lewis...OR, a utility OF who can probably help cover 2B/3B as necessary.

There's a lot of moving parts here, dependent a lot on Polanco and Buxton's future. But it's a hell of a lot of talent to plug in wherever best and create one hell of a team/lineup! But I don't think most of this will have answers until 2024. So for NOW, Lewis in the dirt for 2023 and we'll see how things begin to shake out next year.

 

[JD-TWINS]

21 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Let's hope so because, once again, who else is there? There's Taylor and Buxton. Let's hope not Castro <shudder>. 

Gallo - Castro - Taylor for CF.

Seems Walner could make sense for the Gordon IL stint?

[stringer bell]

5 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Gallo - Castro - Taylor for CF.

Seems Walner could make sense for the Gordon IL stint?

It's four days until Kepler is back. There simply aren't any at-bats for another left handed corner outfielder. 

[JD-TWINS]

10 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

I know we got kind of off topic with the whole "future lineup" issue here, but I have to throw my $.02 in here.

NOW: (Lewis off the 60 day)

Farmer is doing a great job. And I know he's worked on some things to hopefully hit RHP better. But Lewis is special, and part of the future. For now, he stays on the dirt playing 3B and maybe some SS. He's happy, his agent is happy, the Twins are happy, and OF can be revisited next year. Farmer plays a ton, but as the excellent utility player he is.

THE FUTURE:

The future is hard to predict as it comes with questions about Polanco being kept...who I love and is a great ballplayer...and what happens with Buxton.

I don't like having a full time, or near full time DH, unless they are pretty special. In his first POTENTIAL shift to primary DH...I think he'll still play a little OF going forward...here's how Buxton projects as of now:

.236/ .341/ .493/ .834 quad slash.

112 R/ 35 Dbls/ 4 Trips/ 36 HR/ 84 RBI/ 16 SB

Obviously, RUNS and RBI could shift depending on where he bats most often. That's a pretty special DH!

Lee, Correa, Lewis, Kirilloff is the very best INF as I see it playing out. But no room for Polanco, and Julien might be limited (unless he can play a passable LF to increase flexibility), and not sure there's enough AB to go around for Miranda or not at 1B/3B/DH.

Now, if Buxton ends up being at least a part time OF, suddenly the DH spot opens up more for Julien and Miranda, and others, as the DH spot becomes a little more flexible.

If Lewis moves to ANY of the OF spots...and he's got the tools to play all 3 if his wheels are still intact, including CF...then 2B opens up for Julien, and there's much more room for Miranda on a regular basis. The infield defense drops slightly, but the lineup is deeper and better. 

Still no room, as I see it, for Polanco past 2024. And Martin, if and when he's healthy and ready to take the next step, moves to the OF, IMO, and can be a starter in LF or CF...possibly with Lewis...OR, a utility OF who can probably help cover 2B/3B as necessary.

There's a lot of moving parts here, dependent a lot on Polanco and Buxton's future. But it's a hell of a lot of talent to plug in wherever best and create one hell of a team/lineup! But I don't think most of this will have answers until 2024. So for NOW, Lewis in the dirt for 2023 and we'll see how things begin to shake out next year.

 

I like the prospects but, other than Lewis, they are all just prospects. Miranda had a very nice ‘21 in minors…….last year was promising……..this year he’s lost.

Lee is a decent hitter this year at AA……nothing special.

Not sure Martin is even playing after hearing of elbow problems in early March?

Julien, regardless of possible opportunities with big club, continuously only gets penciled in as a 2B. Lee is a switch hitter & a better defender, so if he comes around, Julien has no place in the organization.

Miranda can take over Solano’s role as pinch hitter, occasional RH - DH, & RH 1B…….depth at 3B.

Buxton’s offense keeps him off the field for all but maybe 25 games this summer. Gordon coming back to play against RH pitching will be needed to keep Buxton fresh!

I think Walner now for Gordon and let him give Gallo a break for a few days. Once healed up, Gallo can help in CF as needed.

[DocBauer]

7 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

I like the prospects but, other than Lewis, they are all just prospects. Miranda had a very nice ‘21 in minors…….last year was promising……..this year he’s lost.

Lee is a decent hitter this year at AA……nothing special.

Not sure Martin is even playing after hearing of elbow problems in early March?

Julien, regardless of possible opportunities with big club, continuously only gets penciled in as a 2B. Lee is a switch hitter & a better defender, so if he comes around, Julien has no place in the organization.

Miranda can take over Solano’s role as pinch hitter, occasional RH - DH, & RH 1B…….depth at 3B.

Buxton’s offense keeps him off the field for all but maybe 25 games this summer. Gordon coming back to play against RH pitching will be needed to keep Buxton fresh!

I think Walner now for Gordon and let him give Gallo a break for a few days. Once healed up, Gallo can help in CF as needed.

Yes, we're talking prospects. And not all of them turn out, and we know this. Which is why things remain fluid, amongst other situations/issues. But it's also no hard to look at top, talented prospects doing well at the upper levels and predict a positive outcome.

Personally, I've never thought Lee would be up this year, no matter what he does. He was in college this time last year. He's got good players ahead of him. But the tools and instincts are readily present to see. But he's part of the future, arriving some time in 2024. So that's why I list him as the future, not the now.

Julien will probably never be great defensively anywhere. But he's not a poor athlete. In his 2yrs of college, and his first year in the Twins system, he's played 1B/3B/LF. He's a somewhat different version of Arraez, better athlete, more speed and power, not as good of a hit tool.  But when the bat/offense plays, you find a spot. I can understand the FO sticking him at 2B right now so he can just relax. But I think it's a mistake for him to not being given time at 1B. As to whether he can play some LF? IDK. He doesn't have a great arm, which is why I dismiss 3B. But he should be able to cover LF on an "adequate" basis here and there to increase his versatility in the lineup unless he just demonstrates he has lousy tracking skills. But how many average to poor LF with good bats do we see across MLB? Over the last 20yrs, the Twins themselves have played Young, Willingham, and others in LF due to their bat. And again, if Lewis moves to the OF, where he would probably be very good, it frees up 2B for Julien.

I'm a fan of Miranda, and a believer, despite his rough start to this year. I like him as a RH bat to play both corners and DH. But if everyone else is who we think and hope they are, he might be "crunched" out of the Twins plans IF Buxton continues to be a primary DH going forward. At least being a "sometimes" OF creates more room. 

Hey, it's a lot of spitballing in regard to Buck's future. But it sure is nice to have him in the lineup instead of out of it. He's a pretty special player, even at DH. And I think that gets missed a lot in various discussions.

And I didn't even mention Wallner, as I was mostly concentrating on the INF. I think Wallner has a chance to be pretty darn good, based on power, an incredible arm, way better speed than he's given credit for, and consistent improvement that he's shown coming up through the system. And I believe he will get his opportunity. But the defense needs to improve. And while he will always K a lot, he needs to prove he can continue to hit a little and BB at the ML level like he has at the milb level. I certainly haven't written Wallner off.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

Gallo - Castro - Taylor for CF.

Seems Walner could make sense for the Gordon IL stint?

We’ve already heard that Garlick has been recalled. When did Gallo last play CF? And how many games has he had out there? I’m not sold on that

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Squirrel said:

We’ve already heard that Garlick has been recalled. When did Gallo last play CF? And how many games has he had out there? I’m not sold on that

He was a CF before coming here, IIRC.....

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

It's four days until Kepler is back. There simply aren't any at-bats for another left handed corner outfielder. 

Gordon has been on the roster with Gallo & Kepler & Larnach all year………Walner seems logical with Gallo getting some CF starts.

[Squirrel]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

He was a CF before coming here, IIRC.....

Was he? He played center with the Dodgers and Yankees and Rangers? I guess I didn’t know that. Should have, I guess 

[stringer bell]

11 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

He was a CF before coming here, IIRC.....

Gallo has played a few innings in CF since 2019, including one this year for the Twins. He hasn't started a game in CF since 2019.

[Squirrel]

16 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

He was a CF before coming here, IIRC.....

 

14 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Was he? He played center with the Dodgers and Yankees and Rangers? I guess I didn’t know that. Should have, I guess 

The majority of those games in CF were 2019 or before. He could be used as an emergency back up but not the backup, imo

[stringer bell]

Just now, stringer bell said:

Gallo has played a few innings in CF since 2019, including one this year for the Twins. He hasn't started a game in CF since 2019.

This conversation has taken place on these pages before. Putting Gallo in center likely changes a good defensive outfield to one of the poorer ones in the league.

[USAFChief]

16 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

He was a CF before coming here, IIRC.....

Gallo has 7 innings in CF since 2019.

 

Edit: ninja'd, and reninja'd

Concur with stringer. Gallo ain't getting CF time, and that's a good thing. 

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, DocBauer said:

 

Personally, I've never thought Lee would be up this year, no matter what he does. He was in college this time last year. He's got good players ahead of him. But the tools and instincts are readily present to see. But he's part of the future, arriving some time in 2024. So that's why I list him as the future, not the now.

Julien will probably never be great defensively anywhere. But he's not a poor athlete. In his 2yrs of college, and his first year in the Twins system, he's played 1B/3B/LF. He's a somewhat different version of Arraez, better athlete, more speed and power, not as good of a hit tool.  But when the bat/offense plays, you find a spot. I can understand the FO sticking him at 2B right now so he can just relax. But I think it's a mistake for him to not being given time at 1B. As to whether he can play some LF? IDK. He doesn't have a great arm, which is why I dismiss 3B. But he should be able to cover LF on an "adequate" basis here and there to increase his versatility in the lineup unless he just demonstrates he has lousy tracking skills. But how many average to poor LF with good bats do we see across MLB? Over the last 20yrs, the Twins themselves have played Young, Willingham, and others in LF due to their bat. And again, if Lewis moves to the OF, where he would probably be very good, it frees up 2B for Julien.

On Lee, there almost no chance we see him before September. With the prospect promotion incentive program any team that brings up a top 100 propect mid season is crazy or desperate. It heavily incentivizes prospects breaking camp but penalizes half seasons. Pretty good bet for him to break camp next year though. 

On Julien I can’t see taking a very good glove out of the infield in Lewis to make room for an all thumbs 2nd baseman. My calculus has changed on this with Miranda showing less and less functionality at 3rd. I believe most of the speculation about Lewis in the outfield is based on Miranda assumptions.

I don’t want to be in the situation the Marlins are with a never before CF and a poor fielding 2nd baseman.  It degrades two spots. Even if Lewis would be good out there he’s more valuable at 2nd or 3rd.  We can find center field defense. 

I’m convinced Miranda and Julien need to learn the outfield to have a long term future on this roster. The guys they will be fighting for playing time with are poised to be fixtures. “Knocks wood gif” 

[FlyingFinn]

28 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

I’m convinced Miranda and Julien need to learn the outfield to have a long term future on this roster.

They've both made feeble attempts in LF in the minors and will not be playing the OF for the Twins.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

Gallo has 7 innings in CF since 2019.

 

Edit: ninja'd, and reninja'd

Concur with stringer. Gallo ain't getting CF time, and that's a good thing. 

Guess I didn't RC

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, FlyingFinn said:

They've both made feeble attempts in LF in the minors and will not be playing the OF for the Twins.

They have a few innings. I mean a full effort over an off season with the intention of learning the position. If you are convinced they can't do it, trade them now for more shortstop types. Fill the infield with two way players whenever possible. Outfield will sort itself out. I'm not really interested in the two high school lefty outfielders in the draft this year for the same reason. Less value now and future.

[Riverbrian]

9 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Gordon has been on the roster with Gallo & Kepler & Larnach all year………Walner seems logical with Gallo getting some CF starts.

Good Luck my friend.

I've been here before. 

You are about to find out that you can't play a Brandon Marsh, Adam Duvall, Kyle Tucker or a Cody Bellinger, in CF or everything will fall apart. 

Not even an inning or it all comes tumbling down. 

It's best we call up Kyle Garlick because his .210 batting average in St. Paul will fit in perfectly with the batting averages on the Twins roster and he is an excellent center fielder. 

It is really important that we can bombard 8 right handed hitters at the those two lefties the Angels are throwing at us because split stats show that we won't have any hitting problems at all if we can make sure that a right handed hitter is facing a left handed hitter and vice versa. Overall production doesn't matter as long as the integrity of the platoon split is intact. 

I sure hope the Angels don't pull a fast one and yank one of those left hander starters as a counter move.

We would have no chance if they did. Because you know... we are all exposed with a clown car of right handers now and those split stats would be compromised if they suddenly went right handed on us. 

GULP. Maybe they won't notice and mindlessly trot the lefty out anyway. 

Oh... No... What are we going to do against Ohtani? He's right handed. Only got a couple of healthy lefties now. I can't watch. 

 

 

 

[Squirrel]

41 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Good Luck my friend.

I've been here before. 

You are about to find out that you can't play a Brandon Marsh, Adam Duvall, Kyle Tucker or a Cody Bellinger, in CF or everything will fall apart. 

Not even an inning or it all comes tumbling down. 

It's best we call up Kyle Garlick because his .210 batting average in St. Paul will fit in perfectly with the batting averages on the Twins roster and he is an excellent center fielder. 

It is really important that we can bombard 8 right handed hitters at the those two lefties the Angels are throwing at us because split stats show that we won't have any hitting problems at all if we can make sure that a right handed hitter is facing a left handed hitter and vice versa. Overall production doesn't matter as long as the integrity of the platoon split is intact. 

I sure hope the Angels don't pull a fast one and yank one of those left hander starters as a counter move.

We would have no chance if they did. Because you know... we are all exposed with a clown car of right handers now and those split stats would be compromised if they suddenly went right handed on us. 

GULP. Maybe they won't notice and mindlessly trot the lefty out anyway. 

Oh... No... What are we going to do against Ohtani? He's right handed. Only got a couple of healthy lefties now. I can't watch. 

 

 

 

I gave you a thumbs down for this post only because there is so much sarcasm in every line I have to somewhat mind read what you are actually trying to say. And when I have to respond from an assumption, I’m usually wrong. But let me try to summarize ,,, you aren’t at all happy Kyle Garlick is getting called up because he doesn’t field a position you’d like, and his bat isn’t what we need? And you really dislike his specialized usage? Did I get that right? So who then gets the call up? Not that I’m happy with the call up, but it wasn’t unexpected, so, my expectations were managed. The one player you mentioned earlier is on the IL What’s the update on Gallo and Polo that informs this choice? I’d say it’s way too soon to talk trade for someone because it is. Not that that couldn’t happen, it could, it’s just not very likely. So who on the AAA roster who is also on the 40-man gets the call?