Red Sox 11, Twins 5: Bullpen Implodes After Maeda Injury

[terrydactyls]

1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

For Pagan it does.  

Thank you for proving Fire Dan Gladden's point.

[VivaBomboRivera!]

5 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Why do I get the feeling that Pagan could have had 20 good outings, then this one, and people would still be calling for his head.

No apologist here, but one outing does not a season make 

There's no reason to draw a line between this season and last.  We've seen enough outings from Pagan to know what to expect.
When taking over for a teammate who showed the force of will to get the out after taking a line drive to the shin, keeping the losing margin from increasing is an obligation. If Pagan doesn't have what it takes to uphold that, he shouldn't be given the ball (and he should have the self-respect to admit it).
It is difficult to fathom why a management team that made so many smart decisions in the off season could have blundered into a new contract with someone who demonstrated he is not "the guy." 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Maeda has looked gassed coming off the mound, has already skipped a start due to fatigue, and now this. I'm glad he's ok. I did love the trade at the time. 

Also, maybe it's time to talk about Max Kepler. In the past tense. We saw the lack of hustle at the end Tuesday night, and today the Boston announcers said Kepler was getting the wave home in the 9th. (Either that, or Kepler did not pick up the stop sign from Watkins.) The Twins were still trailing by enough runs that I'm not sure the Boston cutoff man bothers to turn and make a throw. I don't know for sure. I do know that Kepler has looked disengaged for several years now. Once you lose that drive, I don't know how easy it is to get it back. I might be ready to use a platoon of Wallner-Garlick in right field. You lose some defense, at least on paper, but you get back that drive. There are not enough roster spots for platoons all over the field but that's the one I would try.

[Mike Sixel]

4 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

The FO consciously chose not to address the bullpen problem. Now they and we are paying for it.

They literally had a top 5 bullpen before today......according to stats comparing them with other teams. They have 2 weak links, maybe three if Alcala isn't good (but it's not like they weren't going to give him a shot). They have Headrick, Winder, Balazovich in MN or St. Paul. 

[Mark G]

Speaking of the bullpen, the chart towards the end of the article shows a pitch count that suggests for a day or two, unless roster moves are made, we are down to a 4 man bullpen (although, I do like the looks of those 4 guys).   I, personally, haven't seen an article saying there have been roster moves, so I am hoping for a couple of long starts the next couple of games.  Anyone know if there are roster moves being made?  

[KirbyDome89]

13 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Why do I get the feeling that Pagan could have had 20 good outings, then this one, and people would still be calling for his head.

No apologist here, but one outing does not a season make 

Because he's been awful for 3 years now and he had no business being resigned after his meltdown last year. We can stop trying to turn this into something it's not right?

[Old Twins Cap]

The real issue here is that the Twins should have, like the Yankees always do, when they used Headrick for three innings on Wednesday, sent him down and had someone else on a plane to Boston to be the long man, if needed.

It's just modern roster management.  Welcome to the Bigs Minnesota, where one game can completely ruin the best made BP plans.

[Joey Self]

10 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Julien is not an accomplished defensive player at all, but he has a quick first step (why he can steal bases) and that ball was smoked. Eddy was lucky to get his glove on that ball. It was a helluva effort. None of the guys who play second base for the Twins would have caught that ball. Poor Pagan has excellent stuff that so many guys barrel up consistently or so it seems.

Oh, yeah, I agree it was smoked and that Eddy was lucky to get a glove on it.  I wasn't faulting him for not catching it, but rather just observing that if the ball stuck in his glove, Pagan is out of the inning after the double (assuming, of course, that everything fell the same way).

Sometimes, it really is the little things...

[Whitey333]

To the Pagan apologists:. He hasn't been a good reliable bullpen arm going on three years.  He wasn't that good when they signed him.  I wasn't at all surprised by his poor outing.  He has a big history with that.  More will come so be prepared.  I was a little miffed as to why Rocco left him out there so long when he obviously didn't have it.  Oh that's right he has great " stuff".  And if Pagan is so good why didn't he pick up Juliana miscue and bail him out of the inning?  That's because he isn't good enough to do it.  And a curiosity question: why did we put in a position player to pitch with two outs in the 8th in a losing ballgame?  Surely not saving the bullpen by pitching to one batter.

[tony&rodney]

7 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

Juliana miscue

I totally agree with your post concerning Pagan.

But the Julien play ... I addressed this earlier and perhaps you did not see the play. There was not a miscue by Julien. No other player who is currently on the Twins roster would have even got a glove on that rocket off the bat. Julien has a quick first step and dove, a valiant effort. Now I agree that the young French-Canadien still has some work to do on his defense but credit where credit due must be given when it occurs. Julien made a great play just to get his glove on the ball. For what it is worth, we have seen Julien range far to the third base side of second base and throw out runners on a couple of occasions and though unsuccessful he showed good range going far into the outfield on a few broken bat/jam shot fly balls. Thus far his defense, after the first game, has been solid although he does look a little awkward at times. I'm sticking up for Julien as long as he plays decently.

[stringer bell]

11 hours ago, Old Twins Cap said:

The real issue here is that the Twins should have, like the Yankees always do, when they used Headrick for three innings on Wednesday, sent him down and had someone else on a plane to Boston to be the long man, if needed.

It's just modern roster management.  Welcome to the Bigs Minnesota, where one game can completely ruin the best made BP plans.

I speculated about that on Wednesday after the game and they have made the long reliever move today. They really didn't have a lot of choices and probably a one-game window without a long man and of course, Maeda got smoked in the second inning. There is some cost to sending guys down (limited number of "free" moves, service time and 40-man issues).  

[ashbury]

On 4/20/2023 at 3:00 PM, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Why do I get the feeling that Pagan could have had 20 good outings

You might have to sit through a few seasons to ever get to test out this hypothetical.