Bring on the computer, knock off the framing

[Craig Arko]

On 12/28/2021 at 6:46 AM, Nine of twelve said:

I know this is from nearly three years ago, but I want to make two points.

First, there will almost certainly alway be some bugs. The issue is whether these bugs are major or minor, and it's my understanding that only minor bugs remain at this point in time.

Second, there are many bugs with using human umpires as well, and these bugs will never be gotten rid of because of the limitations of the human visual system and related judgement abilities.

Considering these two points, I believe that electronic pitch calling has become superior to human pitch calling. Moreover, further improvements will almost certainly be made in the electronic method but almost certainly not in the human method. If getting calls right is the most important thing, and I believe it is, there's no question that the electronic systems should be implemented now.

I’m curious, since it appears you’ve spent some time on this, including the minor league implementations. Have there been attempts made to hack these systems, do you know? If not yet, what might the likelihood be when real (gambling) money is on the line, say come playoff time? It wouldn’t take many calls influenced to fix the outcome of a game; or at least heavily influence the outcome. What do you think?

[Squirrel]

3 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

It seems that the word gamesmanship is just another way of saying "trying to get the umpires to make calls in your favor that you are not entitled to under the rules."

Um, I disagree with this definition of framing. It’s to get the umpires to make the calls that you ARE entitled to. Framing isn’t about stealing. Do some employ it that way? Yup. So framing really is about both … which is why we need robo umps … to get the calls you should more often and not the calls you shouldn’t less often.

[Platoon]

For what it’s worth, framing is not cheating. Also framing is not pulling the ball.  Real framing is catching the ball in a manner to show it in the best possible angle to an umpire. 
 

Sure, let’s try the robots! What could go wrong. Look how instant replay and analytically driven changes have improved the game experience. We now have 4 hours of watching guys hit fly balls or strike out. Add in station to station baseball and 12 pitchers per game, and at least you get to bed earlier! 
 

The good news is that  if nothing else action will increase what with a bunch of hit first catchers flagging away at the breaking balls off the corners. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

On 12/26/2021 at 10:05 AM, Brock Beauchamp said:

Google has taxis driving around Phoenix without a human being sitting in the driver’s seat. Let’s not pretend there are significant technological hurdles with automated umpires that the tech sector didn’t already solve a decade ago. 

I’ve been in an automated bus in MN in the winter during a snowstorm. It drove very safely, steadily at speed and identified a pedestrian, and adjusted for ice.

It’s not technology holding cars back, it’s cost, for a while.

Strike zone should be done by now

[Richie the Rally Goat]

10 hours ago, Platoon said:

For what it’s worth, framing is not cheating. Also framing is not pulling the ball.  Real framing is catching the ball in a manner to show it in the best possible angle to an umpire. 
 

Sure, let’s try the robots! What could go wrong. Look how instant replay and analytically driven changes have improved the game experience. We now have 4 hours of watching guys hit fly balls or strike out. Add in station to station baseball and 12 pitchers per game, and at least you get to bed earlier! 
 

The good news is that  if nothing else action will increase what with a bunch of hit first catchers flagging away at the breaking balls off the corners. 

If a catcher doesn’t have to worry about “how” they receive it, or if their posture is ultra low so they get more calls at the bottom of the zone, and they just make sure it doesn’t go to the backstop…. Doesn’t that improve the quality? I would think that would make Jeffers and his cannon more valuable even if he isn’t a great framer 

[Platoon]

1 hour ago, Sconnie said:

If a catcher doesn’t have to worry about “how” they receive it, or if their posture is ultra low so they get more calls at the bottom of the zone, and they just make sure it doesn’t go to the backstop…. Doesn’t that improve the quality? I would think that would make Jeffers and his cannon more valuable even if he isn’t a great framer 

I was talking more about the inevitable slide to bat first catchers. Yes not having to contort yourself into that ridiculous one legged stance will help, but poor hands are poor hands no matter how you sit. 

[DJL44]

Catchers will still be weeded out by pop time and ability to block pitches. Don't expect too much bat.

[Nine of twelve]

On 12/29/2021 at 10:20 AM, Craig Arko said:

I’m curious, since it appears you’ve spent some time on this, including the minor league implementations. Have there been attempts made to hack these systems, do you know? If not yet, what might the likelihood be when real (gambling) money is on the line, say come playoff time? It wouldn’t take many calls influenced to fix the outcome of a game; or at least heavily influence the outcome. What do you think?

 

I hadn't considered this aspect of electronic pitch calling. While I have not researched these systems extensively, security would certainly be important. But compare and contrast a pitch calling system with a banking or investment on-line system. These systems manage billions of dollars and handle many thousands of public transactions per day. My assumption is that it would not be difficult to protect a system that has only 30 locations and does not provide public access to any features. Moreover, TV will still be using strike zone approximations during broadcasts, both to enable viewers to visualize the zone and to enable their graphics people to evaluate and fine tune their graphics. Any tampering with electronic pitch calling would be very easily noticed. So even if a system is hacked, I think it would be nigh on impossible to use what would have to be very subtle adjustments in the strike zone to significantly affect the outcome of an individual game or a 7-game postseason series, or for that matter even the regular season. There is just too much else going on in a baseball game.

So then people will say, well, if hacking is so unlikely to influence an outcome, why have the system in the first place? To me the response is obvious. Human umpires are much more prone to outside influence and much, much more prone to error than a properly-protected electronic system. Remember, it's all about getting the calls right so that players are the ones who determine the outcome of a game, not umpires or anyone else.

[Brock Beauchamp]

9 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Catchers will still be weeded out by pop time and ability to block pitches. Don't expect too much bat.

Yep, catchers will de-prioritize framing and re-prioritize catch-and-throw skills. I think some offense will be gained along the way but they'll still be the lightest-hitting position on the diamond by a wide margin, I suspect.

[RpR]

17 hours ago, Sconnie said:

I’ve been in an automated bus in MN in the winter during a snowstorm. It drove very safely, steadily at speed and identified a pedestrian, and adjusted for ice.

It’s not technology holding cars back, it’s cost, for a while.

Strike zone should be done by now

And there have been six deaths in self-driving cars; there will be errors just as there are with men doing it.

Better yet use a pitching machine that rolls dice as to what pitch it will throw, we don't need humans pitching they are too unreliable.

[Nine of twelve]

3 hours ago, RpR said:

And there have been six deaths in self-driving cars; there will be errors just as there are with men doing it.

Better yet use a pitching machine that rolls dice as to what pitch it will throw, we don't need humans pitching they are too unreliable.

You're not taking it far enough. Let's just play Strat-O-Matic games and have that take the place of MLB. Heck of a lot cheaper, no risk of injuries, no worries about COVID, no labor disputes, no litany of prospects flaming out in A-ball, no controversies about public funding of stadiums. Who's on board?

[ashbury]

4 hours ago, RpR said:

Better yet use a pitching machine that rolls dice as to what pitch it will throw, we don't need humans pitching they are too unreliable.

The same straw man, over and over.

I go to games to watch competition; that should remain between humans.  I don't go to games because I want to watch the umpires call balls and strikes.  Apples and oranges there.

[diehardtwinsfan]

On 12/24/2021 at 11:09 PM, Nine of twelve said:

Each player's strike zone dimensions are measured before the games are played. Those numbers are entered each time the player bats. Simple.

I doubt there's anything manual to it. They can cameras and other tech to get an exact idea of where the batter is standing and the stance. It's literally a different application of technology used in facial recognition or self driving for that matter. This is all very doable with no manual input.