Big Mike Pineda staying.

[High heat]

Kind of odd that Big Mike is staying in MN.  Happ and John Lester found new homes can’t believe no one was interested.  Think the Twins think they will resign him or even get a comp balance pick for him if he performs? Maybe they just need innings and Pineda is solid.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yeah, I view this as a disappointment. Not a huge failure but not good and rather perplexing, especially after moving Happ.

I understand why Simmons wasn't dealt (and Donaldson as well), there were so many position players left without a market today. Something of a surprise the market shook out that way.

[Mike Sixel]

I've posted this too much, but since this is a Pineda thread.......

They have 2 veterans on the MLB roster to mentor the young players. I think we all under estimate the value of that. I'd try to extend Pineda 2 years. Then either sign or deal for a better SP in the off season. Pineda, Meada, FA/Trade + 2 from this system is what I'd start the year with.

I think rotating the AAA / AA players thru this year, to get their feet wet and see their stuff against MLB players is important, and I think Pineda and Maeda being here to mentor them is also important.

[TwinsDr2021]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I've posted this too much, but since this is a Pineda thread.......

They have 2 veterans on the MLB roster to mentor the young players. I think we all under estimate the value of that. I'd try to extend Pineda 2 years. Then either sign or deal for a better SP in the off season. Pineda, Meada, FA/Trade + 2 from this system is what I'd start the year with.

I think rotating the AAA / AA players thru this year, to get their feet wet and see their stuff against MLB players is important, and I think Pineda and Maeda being here to mentor them is also important.

I agree, I think Pineda is a guy that they will try to bring back, and it was going to be way easier to do by keeping him this year, he seems like a guy that would be easier to sign while being here then trying to bring back in the off season, (Cruz seems like a guy that will give the Twins a chance to sign him again next year if the Twins look decent)

[Otto von Ballpark]

Looking around, it seems that every team that was shopping for SP got at least one, with the exceptions of San Diego, Tampa, and Boston. Those teams were rumored to be in on Scherzer and/or Berrios -- maybe they didn't want to give up much for a lesser tier of pitcher? San Diego and Tampa are no strangers to patching together a staff.

St. Louis getting both Happ and Lester is a bit weird, but they're kind of a longshot -- they're probably just looking to patch things over until Flaherty returns.

EDIT: San Fran was another team looking at Scherzer but probably not interested in anyone else (they've got a solid rotation right now).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

[Brandon]

We also have Shoemaker to bring back up to mentor players if we got a good enough return for Pineda.  With the way prospects were flying off the shelf, I was thinking that the Twins could net a near top 100 prospect for him.  I can't wait to see our updated top prospect list with all our our newbie's we acquired today.  

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

 

Huh, if only I had thought of that mentoring thing.....

[jaimedude]

I like Pineda, if I were the Twins I would try and re-sign Pindea. He still misses bats and can have quality starts when healthy.

[bighat]

Really strange. You'd think the Twins would have just lined up offers all week for Pineda and then picked the best one with 1 minute on the clock. Even if it wasn't a great offer, it seems like you'd have to do something.

Guessing they have interest in resigning Big Mike and the feeling is mutual? I mean, that's gotta be it. Falvine's quote should be taken with a grain of salt IMO.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, bighat said:

Really strange. You'd think the Twins would have just lined up offers all week for Pineda and then picked the best one with 1 minute on the clock. Even if it wasn't a great offer, it seems like you'd have to do something.

Guessing they have interest in resigning Big Mike and the feeling is mutual? I mean, that's gotta be it. Falvine's quote should be taken with a grain of salt IMO.

I disagree. Who is going to mentor the young guys, just Maeda? I really think we under estimate that.......these are people that need support from guys that have been there, done that.

[Brandon]

So for the trade deadline we netted out 4 relievers 3 starting pitchers (including Cruz deal here) and a MI / CF  of which we received #16, #68, and however close to top 100 Joe Ryan is ranked.  not a bad haul... we gave up a middle reliever, an awful starting pitcher, Berrios, and Cruz.  I am surprised no one else was traded.  

[High heat]

5 minutes ago, jaimedude said:

I like Pineda, if I were the Twins I would try and re-sign Pindea. He still misses bats and can have quality starts when healthy.

I really like Pineda as well, I just figured that other teams would like what he brings as well and would have a bigger interest.  
would mind seeing him the rest of the season and bringing him back on another 2 yr deal. 

[TheLeviathan]

Failed to get value here, not a good look.  Maybe we'll see an extension, that would save some face here.

[mikelink45]

Not excited.  Let's look at the Twins at this point.  We have two veteran SP - one who is a FA and a mentor???  We have a bunch of prospects we hope will yield something good, but nothing guaranteed.  Starting rotation - Maeda, Pineda, Ober, Jax, Shoemaker.  Oh my god!  Anyway.  RP now has Rogers (IL), Duffey, Theilbar, Alcala I hope is sent down, Columbe, Colome (help), and who do we call up from St Paul?  

Yes we are closer to 100 loss than 100 wins.  

So are we excited about today?  Not me.  Not mad, just not seeing the silver lining.  Maybe because I am too old for another long term rebuild. 

[Unwinder]

We should extend him, yeah. He wants to be here, he's been pitching decently, and we could use some stability while we shuffle through our starting prospect options to see what sticks,

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Honest question, and I'm not knocking Pineda for this, but who is he mentoring? Who has he taken under his wing? 

There was visible chemistry and between Ervin Santana and José Berríos when Santana was here and it did appear to be a mentor relationship of a sort. 

What are people seeing now? Describe it to the rest of us so that we can see it.

[wyowib]

I'm in the "I think they saw more value in trying to extend him, in the next few months, over the prospects offered" camp.  He's been pretty great/valuable since they took a flyer on him, and seems like a late bloomer that will put up good/respectable #'s even as he ages.  IMO he'd be a smart guy to extend with what the make-up of the team is currently looking to be next year.  I concur with his mentorship value as others have already pointed out.

 

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

Not excited.  Let's look at the Twins at this point.  We have two veteran SP - one who is a FA and a mentor???  We have a bunch of prospects we hope will yield something good, but nothing guaranteed.  Starting rotation - Maeda, Pineda, Ober, Jax, Shoemaker.  Oh my god!  Anyway.  RP now has Rogers (IL), Duffey, Theilbar, Alcala I hope is sent down, Columbe, Colome (help), and who do we call up from St Paul?  

Yes we are closer to 100 loss than 100 wins.  

So are we excited about today?  Not me.  Not mad, just not seeing the silver lining.  Maybe because I am too old for another long term rebuild. 

9 of their top 12 prospects are in AA or AAA....not to mention a bunch of RPs there. I don't see a long rebuild, unless they are just plain flat bad at developing players. 

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Honest question, and I'm not knocking Pineda for this, but who is he mentoring? Who has he taken under his wing? 

There was visible chemistry and between Ervin Santana and José Berríos when Santana was here and it did appear to be a mentor relationship of a sort. 

What are people seeing now? Describe it to the rest of us so that we can see it.

Well, until today there was only 1 rookie on the SP staff......now is when it matters, when they have to replace Berrios, Shoemaker, and Happ.......so we don't know yet......(added: one at a time, and Mike was also hurt some).

[Otto von Ballpark]

25 minutes ago, bighat said:

Really strange. You'd think the Twins would have just lined up offers all week for Pineda and then picked the best one with 1 minute on the clock. Even if it wasn't a great offer, it seems like you'd have to do something.

Why do you have to something? Surely if the offer is low enough, say another Beau Burrows requiring a 40-man roster spot or a random minor leaguer you have zero interest in, you're just better off passing.

As it is, we have Barnes and Jax immediately re-joining the rotation.

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

Why do you have to something? Surely if the offer is low enough, say another Beau Burrows requiring a 40-man roster spot or a random minor leaguer you have zero interest in, you're just better off passing.

As it is, we have Barnes and Jax immediately re-joining the rotation.

Jax? Really? They are going with Jax and not Winder or anyone else? Jax IS NOT A STARTING MLB PITCHER. 

[wyowib]

9 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

Not excited.  Let's look at the Twins at this point.  We have two veteran SP - one who is a FA and a mentor???  We have a bunch of prospects we hope will yield something good, but nothing guaranteed.  Starting rotation - Maeda, Pineda, Ober, Jax, Shoemaker.  Oh my god!  Anyway.  RP now has Rogers (IL), Duffey, Theilbar, Alcala I hope is sent down, Columbe, Colome (help), and who do we call up from St Paul?  

Yes we are closer to 100 loss than 100 wins.  

So are we excited about today?  Not me.  Not mad, just not seeing the silver lining.  Maybe because I am too old for another long term rebuild. 

Today doesn't change the 100 win/loss threshold of this year.  This team has never actually done a rebuild, it's been "we failed this year but think we can compete next year" regardless of reality, for far too long; while other teams commit to an actual plan and have had WS success in the mean time. The silver lining is that the team is establishing an identity FINALLY.  They're in a great position to make this "rebuild" more like the Red Sox and less like the Mariners from a time frame perspective.  

[mikelink45]

36 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

9 of their top 12 prospects are in AA or AAA....not to mention a bunch of RPs there. I don't see a long rebuild, unless they are just plain flat bad at developing players. 

I understand what you are saying - tell me how good they have been at developing pitchers so far.

[mikelink45]

28 minutes ago, wyowib said:

Today doesn't change the 100 win/loss threshold of this year.  This team has never actually done a rebuild, it's been "we failed this year but think we can compete next year" regardless of reality, for far too long; while other teams commit to an actual plan and have had WS success in the mean time. The silver lining is that the team is establishing an identity FINALLY.  They're in a great position to make this "rebuild" more like the Red Sox and less like the Mariners from a time frame perspective.  

I sure hope you are right.  But I am wait and see. 

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

I understand what you are saying - tell me how good they have been at developing pitchers so far.

So they should just give up? Not sure what you are suggesting they do. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

50 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

Not excited.  Let's look at the Twins at this point.  We have two veteran SP - one who is a FA and a mentor???  We have a bunch of prospects we hope will yield something good, but nothing guaranteed.  Starting rotation - Maeda, Pineda, Ober, Jax, Shoemaker.  Oh my god!  Anyway.  RP now has Rogers (IL), Duffey, Theilbar, Alcala I hope is sent down, Columbe, Colome (help), and who do we call up from St Paul?  

Yes we are closer to 100 loss than 100 wins.  

So are we excited about today?  Not me.  Not mad, just not seeing the silver lining.  Maybe because I am too old for another long term rebuild. 

Then you should be really happy with this week, since it jumpstarted the rebuild by quite a bit.  2-3 starters, 3-4 relievers, and a flexible OBP machine bat goes a long way to making the team better in 2023 (since I believe all of them are at AA or higher).  The Twins now have 5 guys with ceilings of Berrios or better (Duran, Balazovic, Winder, Ryan, SWR), and a bunch more of mid-back rotation guys (Ober, Dobnak, Sands, Barnes, Canterino, Varland, Strotman).  Starting in 2023, that should be enough to get 2-4 reliable starters; invest in a top of the rotation guy in free agency/trade some of your newly acquired prospect capital, and the rotation can get better in a hurry.  Take those 3 guys they just acquired out of the equation, and you're now more likely to get 1-2 reliable starters.

[Cap'n Piranha]

43 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Jax? Really? They are going with Jax and not Winder or anyone else? Jax IS NOT A STARTING MLB PITCHER. 

Winder has 14 starts at AA or above--it's not going to hurt him to stay in St Paul for a bit longer (and while it's SSS, there is a noticeable downtick in his performance and peripherals in AAA).  Meanwhile, give Jax 4 starts against good teams, see what happens, and then bring Winder up in September if you really want to.

[Cap'n Piranha]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

Failed to get value here, not a good look.  Maybe we'll see an extension, that would save some face here.

I wouldn't be shocked if the top crop of teams saw him as a guy who's had some injury issues, and wouldn't crack their playoff rotations.  Since the playoffs are getting close to being penciled in (there are 10 spots available, and 7 teams have >88% odds to make it, with another two above 74%), the demand for a non-game changer come October may not have been there.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Winder has 14 starts at AA or above--it's not going to hurt him to stay in St Paul for a bit longer (and while it's SSS, there is a noticeable downtick in his performance and peripherals in AAA).  Meanwhile, give Jax 4 starts against good teams, see what happens, and then bring Winder up in September if you really want to.

I'll try not to repeat myself, but anyone that doesn't get multiple starts in MN this year can't be counted on to start the season in MN next year. They need, probably, 2 starters from the system to do that next year. Ober, Dobnak, Winder, B*, Ryan are all ahead of Jax. I truly think they are doing Jax a disservice here, as I think he can be a MLB RP.....