Would you have gone 5 years and $80M for Anibal Sanchez?

[Kwak]

It's not my money, so yes make him an offer he can't turn down. We will be overpaying, but that is what the market is dictating the price is for a quality starting pitcher. Kind of like paying $3 a gallon for gas the first time, it seemed like we were being robbed every time we filled up. Now it looks like a bargain.

 

This is a very disappointing off season if we don't add anyone better than Correia.

There was a SA on #13 @2.99 today!

[Top Gun]

Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports that the Padres are "strongly pursuing" Edwin Jackson.

 

While the Pads appear to be big fans of E-Jax, he might ultimately be out of their price range. Rosenthal says the market for Jackson is "strong," and the Padres "may bow out" if the right-hander gets 4-5 years at $12-13 million per season. The Rangers, Brewers, Angels and Indians are also known to have interest in Jackson, though Texas and Milwaukee prefer him on a short-term deal.

Related: Padres

 

Source: Ken Rosenthal

[glunn]

I could see giving Jackson 4 years at $13 million. The Twins need to get one more decent pitcher if they want to avoid last place 3 years in a row. The Twins could easily lose more that $13 million in revenue next year if they continue to put out a third rate product.

[Shane Wahl]

Absolutely not. The difference between Sanchez and Dempster, Marcum, and Jackson is not that great at all. There's an extra 30-50 million involved for no real apparent reason.

[DaveW]

Sanchez ends up back with the Tigers...damn?

[Seth Stohs]

Looks like 5 years and $80 million to stay with the Tigers. Sanchez actually went back to the Tigers to give them the final opportunity.

[chagen]

The tigers sign Sanchez another big contract. The Twins sign Kevin Correia.

 

This must be the TV Revenue that the tigers are pulling in. LOL

 

No they have an owner committed to winning good for them. I'm jealous

[Brock Beauchamp]

Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports that the Padres are "strongly pursuing" Edwin Jackson.

 

While the Pads appear to be big fans of E-Jax, he might ultimately be out of their price range. Rosenthal says the market for Jackson is "strong," and the Padres "may bow out" if the right-hander gets 4-5 years at $12-13 million per season. The Rangers, Brewers, Angels and Indians are also known to have interest in Jackson, though Texas and Milwaukee prefer him on a short-term deal.

Related: Padres

 

Source: Ken Rosenthal

 

If the Padres can afford Jackson, there is no ****ing reason why the Twins shouldn't be in on the bidding.

 

COME ON, Ryan.

 

I can understand not wanting to get involved in a five year deal to a pitcher. But a four year deal to a 28 year old? That's a relatively small risk. The same goes for a three year deal to a 32 year old or a two year deal to a 35 year old.

[beckmt]

Losing teams have to pay the premium. Sanchez's loyalty indicates that players really do prefer to play on a winner.

As for offering him the 5/80--as long as it doesn't cost a draft pick, yes. If a draft choice is forfeited, then no.

I believe he was offered arbitration, and I agree with this. Good point.

[Mr. Ed]

Another day, another downer, with no commitment to this point for REAL pitching to be added.

FA pitching is a mystery to the GM of the MN Twins.

[ThePuck]

Tigers just got Sanchez...pitching staffs are getting stronger in the AL Central. Tigers, Royals, Indians (if you have faith in Bauer)....

[Mike Sixel]

Maybe Ryan should sign Kluwe....to learn how to actually punt..

[kab21]

Sanchez ends up back with the Tigers...damn?

 

Does it matter? the Twins aren't going to beat any of the other teams in the central and that includes the Indians which are pretty bad.

[old nurse]

Somewhere there has to be a metric for pitchers on multiyear contracts that due to injury or quick decline ended up a poor investment.

 

If for the second six years the statistics show he has an identical record to the first 6 you would have to say bust. The contract is still based on potential.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Jackson, last 3 seasons: 100 ERA+

 

Sanchez, last 3 seasons: 109 ERA+

 

(And for the record, Dempster is at 102 ERA+ for the same period)

 

Games started and innings have been virtually the same over this span (although Jackson was obviously more durable 4+ seasons ago).

 

It will be interesting to see what Jackson gets relative to Sanchez. The Padres rumor has them dropping out if bidding gets to 5/65 which seems like a pretty good estimate for his eventual contract. I don't think I'd give him that if I were the Twins, and I would be stunned if the Twins are actually considered serious bidders for him.

 

Dempster at 2/26 or 2/30 (or perhaps even 3/39 as once rumored) looks pretty nice and conservative by comparison. (Especially if it meant no Correia at 2/10.) It's probably the kind of move the Twins are going to have to start making occasionally if they want to get back into serious contention, unless they get really lucky in prospect development.

[ThePuck]

Jackson, last 3 seasons: 100 ERA+

 

Sanchez, last 3 seasons: 109 ERA+

 

(And for the record, Dempster is at 102 ERA+ for the same period)

 

Games started and innings have been virtually the same over this span (although Jackson was obviously more durable 4+ seasons ago).

 

It will be interesting to see what Jackson gets relative to Sanchez. The Padres rumor has them dropping out if bidding gets to 5/65 which seems like a pretty good estimate for his eventual contract. I don't think I'd give him that if I were the Twins, and I would be stunned if the Twins are actually considered serious bidders for him.

 

Dempster at 2/26 or 2/30 (or perhaps even 3/39 as once rumored) looks pretty nice and conservative by comparison. (Especially if it meant no Correia at 2/10.) It's probably the kind of move the Twins are going to have to start making occasionally if they want to get back into serious contention, unless they get really lucky in prospect development.

 

And Marcum's ERA+ is like 112 over the last three years

[Mike Sixel]

It matters in 2014 and 2015... These are not 1 year deals.

[nicksaviking]

If a risk terrified team like the Twins were forced to give a three or four year deal, you'd think Jackson would be the target. Perhaps he won't pitch like a $13 million arm, but on the other hand, his track record also would indicate he wont be a total bust and pitch below a $10 million value. Plus, he has proven to be a very tradable commodity if need be.

[Rosterman]

Here's my question. At what level do you pay different position players.

What is a catcher worth that catches 120+ games compared to one that catches 80 games.

What is a power hitter (slugging %) worth compared to an average hitter (OBP).

What is the going price for relief help. Do you add a million for games/innings pitched/WHIP and subtract a million if strong middle relief.

 

What is a closer really worth? Aren't they basically replaceable? You have gems, diamonds and such...but they only need to really close if you are ahead in the game.

 

Is a veteran free-agent starter worth basically $1 million a win, or eventually $1 million per game started with a chance of winning only half those games (maybe the team wins another 20% of the starts).

 

In someways, I would rather pay a guy $15-20 million if he is playing everyday and producing, that just 33 times a year. Of millions to the guy who pitches 50 games and 60 innings.

 

At what point is a starting pitcher waaaaay overpaid? Do you just try and stay in the $4-8 million range and hope they win 8-12-14 games for you? Then rotate in another guy?

 

What makes a starting pitcher worth $1 million a victory?

[TK10]

I would have given him 5 years and $80 million, yes, but I never would have given him my heart.

[SweetOne69]

No they have an owner committed to winning good for them. I'm jealous

 

Actually it is they have an owner desperate to win a WS Title before he dies. Illitch owns both the Red Wings and Tigers. While the Red Wings have been perennial winners, the Tigers have barely sniffed the postseason in the 20 years that he has owned the club. He is getting up there in years and the last few years he as take a huge loss on the Tigers in the effort to get a WS title.

[Mike Sixel]

Sweetone....do you see any evidence the twins owners are committed to winning at all?

[nicksaviking]

Sweetone....do you see any evidence the twins owners are committed to winning at all?

 

The Twins too had an aging owner whose time was running out. He didn't go all in to win, instead he just made threats to get a new stadium. A new stadium that he had to chip in less money for, than did the Tigers owner for his stadium built eight years earlier, whan stadiums were built for much less.

[SweetOne69]

The Twins too had an aging owner whose time was running out. He didn't go all in to win, instead he just made threats to get a new stadium. A new stadium that he had to chip in less money for, than did the Tigers owner for his stadium built eight years earlier, whan stadiums were built for much less.

 

But he had already won it twice.

[SweetOne69]

Sweetone....do you see any evidence the twins owners are committed to winning at all?

 

Yes I believe that the Pohlad family is committed to winning. But they intend to do it by operating it as a stand alone self sustaining entity.

[Mike Sixel]

Yes I believe that the Pohlad family is committed to winning. But they intend to do it by operating it as a stand alone self sustaining entity.

 

Did they do that earlier this decade? Which big piece did they fill with FA? DH/OF? Nope. When have you ever seen them do that? They are $25MM down from last year, Blackburn, Morneau come off next year, and they add $25mM in revenue....have you seen it this year?

 

Because to me, committing to winning is spending resources when it is available to make your team better.

[Guest USAFChief]

Actually it is they have an owner desperate to win a WS Title before he dies. Illitch owns both the Red Wings and Tigers. While the Red Wings have been perennial winners, the Tigers have barely sniffed the postseason in the 20 years that he has owned the club. He is getting up there in years and the last few years he as take a huge loss on the Tigers in the effort to get a WS title.

 

Can you prove that Illitch has "take (sic) a huge loss on the Tigers?"

[70charger]

Here's my question. At what level do you pay different position players.

What is a catcher worth that catches 120+ games compared to one that catches 80 games.

What is a power hitter (slugging %) worth compared to an average hitter (OBP).

What is the going price for relief help. Do you add a million for games/innings pitched/WHIP and subtract a million if strong middle relief.

 

What is a closer really worth? Aren't they basically replaceable? You have gems, diamonds and such...but they only need to really close if you are ahead in the game.

 

Is a veteran free-agent starter worth basically $1 million a win, or eventually $1 million per game started with a chance of winning only half those games (maybe the team wins another 20% of the starts).

 

In someways, I would rather pay a guy $15-20 million if he is playing everyday and producing, that just 33 times a year. Of millions to the guy who pitches 50 games and 60 innings.

 

At what point is a starting pitcher waaaaay overpaid? Do you just try and stay in the $4-8 million range and hope they win 8-12-14 games for you? Then rotate in another guy?

 

What makes a starting pitcher worth $1 million a victory?

 

What is the meaning of life?

[old nurse]

Here's my question. At what level do you pay different position players.

What is a catcher worth that catches 120+ games compared to one that catches 80 games.

What is a power hitter (slugging %) worth compared to an average hitter (OBP).

What is the going price for relief help. Do you add a million for games/innings pitched/WHIP and subtract a million if strong middle relief.

 

What is a closer really worth? Aren't they basically replaceable? You have gems, diamonds and such...but they only need to really close if you are ahead in the game.

 

Is a veteran free-agent starter worth basically $1 million a win, or eventually $1 million per game started with a chance of winning only half those games (maybe the team wins another 20% of the starts).

 

In someways, I would rather pay a guy $15-20 million if he is playing everyday and producing, that just 33 times a year. Of millions to the guy who pitches 50 games and 60 innings.

 

At what point is a starting pitcher waaaaay overpaid? Do you just try and stay in the $4-8 million range and hope they win 8-12-14 games for you? Then rotate in another guy?

 

What makes a starting pitcher worth $1 million a victory?

 

Sanchez has won an averae of 8 games a year. That would be nearly 2 million a victory. It will be interesting to watch the Angels as they throw money at hitters.

[old nurse]

Can you prove that Illitch has "take (sic) a huge loss on the Tigers?"

 

#21 Detroit Tigers - Forbes.com

 

A 29.1 million lost estimated by Forbes for 2011. Add Fielder's cost for more losses.