Coronavirus

[MMMordabito]

Well, almost $4K of blood money just showed up in my bank account. 

 

Sometimes you're flush and sometimes you're bust, and when you're up, it's never as good as it seems, and when you're down, you never think you'll be up again, but life goes on. - Fred Jung

[Vanimal46]

https://www.postbulletin.com/life/health/mayo-says-it-has-capacity-to-deliver-testing-needed-to-reopen-the-economy/article_108e688e-7eaa-11ea-8a5d-33b38e022854.html

 

Very encouraging article!

[MMMordabito]

 

https://www.postbulletin.com/life/health/mayo-says-it-has-capacity-to-deliver-testing-needed-to-reopen-the-economy/article_108e688e-7eaa-11ea-8a5d-33b38e022854.html

Very encouraging article!

 

Yes, but I don't like this part:

 

"And then there is this: Could the federal government order Mayo and others to offer their testing capacity to patients elsewhere across the country?"

 

Walz will be Trump's next "mutineer".  (I was told we are allowed to be political in this thread by a mod)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Yes, but I don't like this part:

 

"And then there is this: Could the federal government order Mayo and others to offer their testing capacity to patients elsewhere across the country?"

 

Walz will be Trump's next "mutineer".  (I was told we are allowed to be political in this thread by a mod)

Wait, why would he be a "mutineer"? 

I'm legitimately curious. As governor, Walz is tasked with the welfare of his citizens. He's working with local private industry to create that network.

 

Isn't that what we're supposed to do in this situation?

[Brock Beauchamp]

One thing I think needs to be brought up is that rural and urban areas do not suffer the same kind of risk. As an urban resident, in a typical day I would come in close contact with, say, 100 people. If I was a rural resident, that contact might be 20 people. 

 

It's really hard to determine what matters and what doesn't in this conversation but contact is the biggest variable in question.

 

Does it make sense to shut down rural areas the same way we shut down urban areas and if it doesn't, how do we enact those rules?

[glunn]

 

One thing I think needs to be brought up is that rural and urban areas do not suffer the same kind of risk. As an urban resident, in a typical day I would come in close contact with, say, 100 people. If I was a rural resident, that contact might be 20 people. 

 

It's really hard to determine what matters and what doesn't in this conversation but contact is the biggest variable in question.

 

Does it make sense to shut down rural areas the same way we shut down urban areas and if it doesn't, how do we enact those rules?

I believe that in general you are correct about urban and rural, and I agree that contact is the key.

 

On the other hand, a rural meatpacking plant where people work side by side is likely more dangerous than a retail store where people can maintain distance.

 

My prediction (and I am often wrong) is that as time passes, and assuming no vaccine or "cure", there will be increasing pressure to re-open the economy and that the red states will lead the charge. Hopefully, they will succeed, but the Civil War illustrates how arrogance can lead to disaster..

 

And even in a blue state, I don't see any danger in getting a haircut if both parties are wearing N-95 masks and rubber gloves. Why isn't the government tasking every relevant company to start making N-95 masks? Give them to the medical professionals first, then flood the populace with them. It won't be pretty, but I need a haircut and my hairdresser needs money. With N-95 masks and rubber gloves I think that the danger would be nil.

 

I hope that people smarter than I am will come up with solutions that can get people back to work faster, without creating material risk.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Well, almost $4K of blood money just showed up in my bank account. 

 

Sometimes you're flush and sometimes you're bust, and when you're up, it's never as good as it seems, and when you're down, you never think you'll be up again, but life goes on. - Fred Jung

I'm donating a large portion of my stimulus money to family who need it and charitites.

 

Feel free to do the same.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I believe that in general you are correct about urban and rural, and I agree that contact is the key.

 

On the other hand, a rural meatpacking plant where people work side by side is likely more dangerous than a retail store where people can maintain distance.

 

My prediction (and I am often wrong) is that as time passes, and assuming no vaccine or "cure", there will be increasing pressure to re-open the economy and that the red states will lead the charge. Hopefully, they will succeed, but the Civil War illustrates how arrogance can lead to disaster..

 

And even in a blue state, I don't see any danger in getting a haircut if both parties are wearing N-95 masks and rubber gloves. Why isn't the government tasking every relevant company to start making N-95 masks? Give them to the medical professionals first, then flood the populace with them. It won't be pretty, but I need a haircut and my hairdresser needs money. With N-95 masks and rubber gloves I think that the danger would be nil.

 

I hope that people smarter than I am will come up with solutions that can get people back to work faster, without creating material risk.

I agree with most of this but you don't *need* a haircut, Glunn. Vanity is not a vital resource, and I'm saying this as a person who goes too long without a haircut and is on the verge of shearing off all my hair because it's going to be at my shoulders in a few weeks and it's driving me crazy.

 

I will gladly shear off my hair at home if it keeps society a little safer.

But I agree that we need to work smarter, not bigger.

[glunn]

 

I agree with most of this but you don't *need* a haircut, Glunn. Vanity is not a vital resource, and I'm saying this as a person who goes too long without a haircut and is on the verge of shearing off all my hair because it's going to be at my shoulders in a few weeks and it's driving me crazy.

 

I will gladly shear off my hair at home if it keeps society a little safer.

But I agree that we need to work smarter, not bigger.

I am not a scientist, but if people can safely get haircuts (using N-95 masks, rubber gloves and clorox wipes), then it seems to me that this sector may be able to safely reopen before other sectors, such as bars. With N-95 masks and other precautions, it seems to me that we should be able to safely re-open a lot of the economy. Obviously, this would take a zillion N-95 masks, or some better masks, and mountains of Clorox wipes, but it seems doable. Does anyone disagree?

 

I think that sacrifice for the greater good is noble, and we are seeing a ton of that. But there are millions of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck and the federal assistance is going to leave a lot of them short and possibly on the road to eventual evictions and bankruptcies. Giving to charities is noble and I am doing the same, but this won't come close to protecting these people. I can only pray that we can find ways to get them back to work, safely. And if N-95 masks are good enough for doctors they are good enough for me. 

 

I am not arguing with you, because we see this nearly the same regarding making sacrifices for the greater good. My point is that shutting things down was a good idea while we figured stuff out, and in my opinion we now need to focus hard on safely opening stuff back up. What do you think that it would take to safely reopen a hair salon or a sporting goods store? What about a bar? 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I am not a scientist, but if people can safely get haircuts (using N-95 masks, rubber gloves and clorox wipes), then it seems to me that this sector may be able to safely reopen before other sectors, such as bars. With N-95 masks and other precautions, it seems to me that we should be able to safely re-open a lot of the economy. Obviously, this would take a zillion N-95 masks, or some better masks, and mountains of Clorox wipes, but it seems doable. Does anyone disagree?

 

I think that sacrifice for the greater good is noble, and we are seeing a ton of that. But there are millions of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck and the federal assistance is going to leave a lot of them short and possibly on the road to eventual evictions and bankruptcies. Giving to charities is noble and I am doing the same, but this won't come close to protecting these people. I can only pray that we can find ways to get them back to work, safely. And if N-95 masks are good enough for doctors they are good enough for me. 

 

I am not arguing with you, because we see this nearly the same regarding making sacrifices for the greater good. My point is that shutting things down was a good idea while we figured stuff out, and in my opinion we now need to focus hard on safely opening stuff back up. What do you think that it would take to safely reopen a hair salon or a sporting goods store? What about a bar? 

Well, first I think bars and salons are at the bottom of the list of things I care about but I share your sentiment.

 

The thing is that had we, as a nation, started stockpiling those vital components of safe interaction months ago, we might have something to talk about here.

But right now, people who literally deal with COVID patients intimately don't have the equipment they need to keep people safe, the same equipment we want to use to get our hair done.

Let's get past the point of "hey, I need that mask to not die while I try to keep another person alive" before we get to anything else.

 

And this administration has so completely failed in that regard that I struggle to find a reason why anyone even disputes that fact.

[Bark's Lounge]

Hello everyone. Back for a minute. I know of 7 people who have C19 and 2 on quarantine who do not have it yet. Scary stuff for sure. I have my fears, but choose to keep my coping mechanisms intact. I thought I would share this info as it may be of interest. All of these people except for one takes it very seriously... that one outlier is a 19 year old with a 2 year old daughter. They are the ones quarantined who don't have it yet. No one is invincible and I hope she gets that into her thick skull... hopefully unscathed. They are very close family and it concerns me to the point where I lose sleep at night. Be safe everyone.

 

To note: None of them have died. I do have a 68 year old aunt who was on oxygen because of it and it was awful for her (heavy smoker). One was an 85 year old who tested positive with no symptoms. The other was an elderly man which has resulted in the afformentioned quarantines. They were the only three who had the test and tested positive as far as I know from the amount I mentioned - the others are pretty reliable and had direct contact... two of them medical professionals.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Hello everyone. Back for a minute. I know of 7 people who have C19 and 2 on quarantine who do not have it yet. Scary stuff for sure. I have my fears, but choose to keep my coping mechanisms intact. I thought I would share this info as it may be of interest. All of these people except for one takes it very seriously... that one outlier is a 19 year old with a 2 year old daughter. They are the ones quarantined who don't have it yet. No one is invincible and I hope she gets that into her thick skull... hopefully unscathed. They are very close family and it concerns me to the point where I lose sleep at night. Be safe everyone.

 

To note: None of them have died. I do have a 68 year old aunt who was on oxygen because of it and it was awful for her (heavy smoker). One was an 85 year old who tested positive with no symptoms. The other was an elderly man which has resulted in the afformentioned quarantines. They were the only three who had the test and tested positive as far as I know from the amount I mentioned - the others are pretty reliable and had direct contact... two of them medical professionals.

Barks, love you always and wish for the best for you and yours.

We miss you here.

[MMMordabito]

 

Wait, why would he be a "mutineer"? 

I'm legitimately curious. As governor, Walz is tasked with the welfare of his citizens. He's working with local private industry to create that network.

 

Isn't that what we're supposed to do in this situation?

 

I didn't phrase that very well. I was saying Trump would accuse Walz of being a mutineer if he pushes Mayo to go Minnesota first.  As a Minnesotan, of course, I would want that for our state.  But Mr. Total Authority may have other ideas.

[MMMordabito]

 

I agree with most of this but you don't *need* a haircut, Glunn. Vanity is not a vital resource, and I'm saying this as a person who goes too long without a haircut and is on the verge of shearing off all my hair because it's going to be at my shoulders in a few weeks and it's driving me crazy.

 

I will gladly shear off my hair at home if it keeps society a little safer.

But I agree that we need to work smarter, not bigger.

 

I agree that we don't need haircuts, but Glunn's hairdresser does need money.  That's where it gets tricky.  Some of the "nice-to-haves" still provide livelihood for people. It's one of the reasons that I am in a personal gray area about the stimulus package.  What I think should be is that it should be skewed more to help those who provide those "nice-to-haves", then we can go without them longer without those providers being affected?  What is? Well, they just did it by 2017-2019 income.  I know they didn't have time, but that was hasty.  However, and too my earlier Blow quote, this isn't necessarily a financial emergency for everyone right now, but most of us will have financial emergencies at other times in our lives. I know I have in the past. That doesn't mean we will get government stimulus when those emergencies occur.  It's just weird to get money that you know you got because people are dying.

[stringer bell]

Good discussion here. We do need to figure out how to move forward out of this. For example, I play golf and often I will go out before the clubhouse opens and play by myself. I never get close to anyone and often don't see a human at all. There is no reason why I can't go to my little nine-hole course and play golf. However, playing in a foursome in the middle of the afternoon and then going in and having a couple of drinks would be an invitation to spread the virus. 

 

Most construction should be able to start with a few common sense protections. As glunn is suggesting, some parts of the service industry can restart. I'm sure that with proper safeguards, many other areas of the economy can reopen.

 

It is obvious to me that "reopening" must be well-thought-out and have a plan if infections spike again. Face masks need to be used and people quarantined if they are suspected of having the virus. Finally, and sadly, until there is a reliable vaccine the elderly pretty much had better shelter in place. Nursing homes and extended care facilities are where this is now an epidemic and the protections need to be extended.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I agree that we don't need haircuts, but Glunn's hairdresser does need money.  That's where it gets tricky.  Some of the "nice-to-haves" still provide livelihood for people. It's one of the reasons that I am in a personal gray area about the stimulus package.  What I think should be is that it should be skewed more to help those who provide those "nice-to-haves", then we can go without them longer without those providers being affected?  What is? Well, they just did it by 2017-2019 income.  I know they didn't have time, but that was hasty.  However, and too my earlier Blow quote, this isn't necessarily a financial emergency for everyone right now, but most of us will have financial emergencies at other times in our lives. I know I have in the past. That doesn't mean we will get government stimulus when those emergencies occur.  It's just weird to get money that you know you got because people are dying.

I agree that hairdressers need money just like everyone else but once we try to drill down the "need to haves", people are going bankrupt because Congress has deadlocked itself on minutia for months.

Casting a net this wide isn't a particularly good solution but I don't see how we really had any other option.

[Vanimal46]

Hello everyone. Back for a minute. I know of 7 people who have C19 and 2 on quarantine who do not have it yet. Scary stuff for sure. I have my fears, but choose to keep my coping mechanisms intact. I thought I would share this info as it may be of interest. All of these people except for one takes it very seriously... that one outlier is a 19 year old with a 2 year old daughter. They are the ones quarantined who don't have it yet. No one is invincible and I hope she gets that into her thick skull... hopefully unscathed. They are very close family and it concerns me to the point where I lose sleep at night. Be safe everyone.

 

To note: None of them have died. I do have a 68 year old aunt who was on oxygen because of it and it was awful for her (heavy smoker). One was an 85 year old who tested positive with no symptoms. The other was an elderly man which has resulted in the afformentioned quarantines. They were the only three who had the test and tested positive as far as I know from the amount I mentioned - the others are pretty reliable and had direct contact... two of them medical professionals.

Bark!! I’m happy to read you’re alive and safe. Take care of yourself, friend!

 

- Van

[biggentleben]

I have an opinion piece going in our local paper tomorrow that is only an opinion piece because of how I wrote it. The information in the piece is not opinion whatsoever.

 

The state of South Dakota was set up to give all power to govern local people to local governments (county and city). Those counties and cities set up their own charters, but in many cases, they ceded their power to the state government, power that the state government had written out of the state constitution to the localities. When this all first hit, those places with that issue needed to immediately get on top of things and do some emergency mandates before something was able to be put onto the ballot for November (or June or whatever for their municipality). Those who had the power put in ordinances that are, in many cases, more restrictive than many of the states that have "shut down". The county I'm in has had such an ordinance in place longer than all but three states and Puerto Rico among the United States and its territories.

 

That takes you to emergency powers. In a declared disaster emergency (which didn't come from Trump until April 5, despite multiple requests), the governor's office has the power to shut down travel and the office can also restrict people from being in particular places, but it cannot tell people where TO be, just where NOT TO be. Similarly, the department of health has statute to declare public health emergency over one person or group of persons and set standards for that person. Additional powers for the DOH and for counties were requested from the state legislature on their final day of session in March, but even with one of their own on his death bed, they rejected both measures that would have done that.

 

So, in South Dakota, the reason the Governor does not issue a "shelter-in-place" or a "stay-at-home" ORDER?

 

She can't.

[twinsnorth49]

Measures simply need to be put in place to keep transmission to a manageable level for hospitals. Testing needs to be widespread and efficient enough to be able to contain a potential outbreak. People in high risk categories will need to live under stricter guidelines and have safeguards put in place to protect them from both a medical standpoint and a financial standpoint. 

 

Lower risk segments of society need to be able to help move things forward. The notion that transmission needs to be prevented between absolutely everyone is a false one, nor is it remotely possible. Part of finding more accuracy in CFR and IFR  numbers will have to come from more people being infected and actually knowing it. Comorbidities aren't exaggerating the CFR but they certainly influence it. Testing is ultimately the key in deciding what the levels of risk are moving forward, and for who. 

[Craig Arko]

 

Measures simply need to be put in place to keep transmission to a manageable level for hospitals. Testing needs to be widespread and efficient enough to be able to contain a potential outbreak. People in high risk categories will need to live under stricter guidelines and have safeguards put in place to protect them from both a medical standpoint and a financial standpoint. 

 

Lower risk segments of society need to be able to help move things forward. The notion that transmission needs to be prevented between absolutely everyone is a false one, nor is it remotely possible. Part of finding more accuracy in CFR and IFR  numbers will have to come from more people being infected and actually knowing it. Comorbidities aren't exaggerating the CFR but they certainly influence it. Testing is ultimately the key in deciding what the levels of risk are moving forward, and for who. 

Unfortunately, in my country, unlike yours, we may need to wait for regime change to occur before we're able to adequately muster the medical and biological resources to get this handled. Hopefully this will happen by around the beginning of 2021.

[glunn]

 

Hello everyone. Back for a minute. I know of 7 people who have C19 and 2 on quarantine who do not have it yet. Scary stuff for sure. I have my fears, but choose to keep my coping mechanisms intact. I thought I would share this info as it may be of interest. All of these people except for one takes it very seriously... that one outlier is a 19 year old with a 2 year old daughter. They are the ones quarantined who don't have it yet. No one is invincible and I hope she gets that into her thick skull... hopefully unscathed. They are very close family and it concerns me to the point where I lose sleep at night. Be safe everyone.

 

To note: None of them have died. I do have a 68 year old aunt who was on oxygen because of it and it was awful for her (heavy smoker). One was an 85 year old who tested positive with no symptoms. The other was an elderly man which has resulted in the afformentioned quarantines. They were the only three who had the test and tested positive as far as I know from the amount I mentioned - the others are pretty reliable and had direct contact... two of them medical professionals.

I am glad to hear from you, and gladder that you are OK.

[Riverbrian]

 

I have an opinion piece going in our local paper tomorrow that is only an opinion piece because of how I wrote it. The information in the piece is not opinion whatsoever.

 

The state of South Dakota was set up to give all power to govern local people to local governments (county and city). Those counties and cities set up their own charters, but in many cases, they ceded their power to the state government, power that the state government had written out of the state constitution to the localities. When this all first hit, those places with that issue needed to immediately get on top of things and do some emergency mandates before something was able to be put onto the ballot for November (or June or whatever for their municipality). Those who had the power put in ordinances that are, in many cases, more restrictive than many of the states that have "shut down". The county I'm in has had such an ordinance in place longer than all but three states and Puerto Rico among the United States and its territories.

 

That takes you to emergency powers. In a declared disaster emergency (which didn't come from Trump until April 5, despite multiple requests), the governor's office has the power to shut down travel and the office can also restrict people from being in particular places, but it cannot tell people where TO be, just where NOT TO be. Similarly, the department of health has statute to declare public health emergency over one person or group of persons and set standards for that person. Additional powers for the DOH and for counties were requested from the state legislature on their final day of session in March, but even with one of their own on his death bed, they rejected both measures that would have done that.

 

So, in South Dakota, the reason the Governor does not issue a "shelter-in-place" or a "stay-at-home" ORDER?

 

She can't.

 

Like turning a tanker around.

 

Laws, Ordinances, Regulations that have been in place for decades for use under normal circumstances become hurdles and roadblocks in times of extraordinary circumstance. 

 

 

 

 

[glunn]

Interesting article today on cnn -- https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/coronavirus-pandemic-new-normal/index.html

 

If I was in charge, then every possible company would be making N-95 (or better) equivalent masks, and they would be handed out on every street corner and door to door (once the medical professionals all have them).  This would create a lot of jobs.  And at least 100,000 people would be hired to use Clorox wipes (or equivalent) to wipe down all frequently used surfaces in public spaces and businesses.

 

It seems to me that we would be better off paying more people to fight the virus until their regular jobs come back.

[Squirrel]

Interesting article today on cnn -- https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/coronavirus-pandemic-new-normal/index.html

 

If I was in charge, then every possible company would be making N-95 (or better) equivalent masks, and they would be handed out on every street corner and door to door (once the medical professionals all have them). This would create a lot of jobs. And at least 100,000 people would be hired to use Clorox wipes (or equivalent) to wipe down all frequently used surfaces in public spaces and businesses.

 

It seems to me that we would be better off paying more people to fight the virus until their regular jobs come back.

Too bad you couldn’t have encouraged Trump to enact the Defense Production Act two months ago. This is the problem of why things haven’t been done and why we ae so far behind with these things, imo.

 

Oh, as for a haircut, you could buy several gift certificates from your favorite stylist. It might help until better solutions are found.

[Squirrel]

I think Illinois governor may make wearing masks in public mandatory. Right now it’s just a recommendation.

[glunn]

 

Too bad you couldn’t have encouraged Trump to enact the Defense Production Act two months ago. This is the problem of why things haven’t been done and why we ae so far behind with these things, imo.

Oh, as for a haircut, you could buy several gift certificates from your favorite stylist. It might help until better solutions are found.

I have had the same stylist for more than 30 years, and she knows that she can text me if she needs anything. My greater concern is the millions of stylists and other people who will suffer greatly if we cannot find safe ways to get them back to work.

 

At least I bought hair ties to make masks, and I am saving one in case I need to move to a pony tail, which might be somewhat cool if it comes to that.

 

As for Trump, I agree with you, but it's not too late to start doing smart things, even if Congress has to take the lead.

[gunnarthor]

Good article - not sure if had been posted already - on the risk to rural America for COVID-19.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/15/coronavirus-rural-america-covid-19-186031

 

 

Smithfield packing plant in Sioux Falls was closed because of the virus. It does about 4-5% of the countries meat production, so that's fairly large. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Also, a Tyson pork plant in Iowa.

 

https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/Tyson-Foods-says-2-dead-from-COVID-19-outbreak-at-Columbus-Junction-plant-569680951.html

[Squirrel]

I have had the same stylist for more than 30 years, and she knows that she can text me if she needs anything. My greater concern is the millions of stylists and other people who will suffer greatly if we cannot find safe ways to get them back to work.

 

At least I bought hair ties to make masks, and I am saving one in case I need to move to a pony tail, which might be somewhat cool if it comes to that.

 

As for Trump, I agree with you, but it's not too late to start doing smart things, even if Congress has to take the lead.

Congress cannot enact the DPA and cannot order companies to start producing. That’s the problem. And anything the House tries to do gets shut down in the Senate.

 

As for out of work hair stylists, they will be back at work in some capacity sooner than me. My industry will be hurting for a lot longer if the Mayor of LA is right.

[Craig Arko]

Just in case you were wondering.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/health/who-alcohol-coronavirus-trnd/index.html