Front Page: Revisiting Falvey and Levine Era Trades: How the Jaime Garcia Trade(s) Will Help the Twins in 2020

[In My La Z boy]

In "Revisiting Falvey and Levine era trades" 20% of our current 40 man came in these trades. In my opinion that's some pretty good success. 
Alcala         Chalmers
Duran         Littell
Odorizzi      Smeltzer
Celestino    Raley

[bunsen82]

Okay these 2 trades are going to paired together whether you want to look at them separate or not.  The initial trade by itself was a good trade for the Twins, you took a low A ball pitcher 19 years old and traded for a mid tier starter.  You do that any day of the week.  Then we get Littell back in the second trade with the Yankees who was rated much higher than Ynoa and Enns who had the possibility of being a back of the rotation starter. 

 

Ynoa got to AA last year, when the braves bullpen hit the skids.  They brought up Ynoa for few innings of which he had an ERA of 18.00 (extreme small sample) while they tried to patch it back together.  Ynoa is still a long ways off, and command is his issue not the raw stuff. 

 

Even with Littell being farther along, if you are going to project the two arms,  Littell is going to be the more projectable arm.  I also see the potential of having a Kintzler career or possibly slightly higher.  Ynoa has the higher ceiling and if he hits has the ceiling of a closer.  The odds of that happening, are higher than what they were back in 2017 but I would still say is only a 33% chance or less, he had a 5.3 ERA in both AA and AAA last year.   Also he would have been a rule 5 so would have had to have been added to the 40 man this year.  Me personally I don't think we have room for him.  And if we didn't have Littell we would be looking for another RP on the FA Market. 

[Jham]

They got Cash from Atlanta, Not revisionist history but an omission. Revisionist history is thet the Yankees were going to DFA a player not even on the 40 man roster.

Oh goodness. I was going off the top of my head from memory. When I said DFA, I meant Rule 5. Twins traded for him in June and had to add him in November. Regardless, I didn't think he was worth $4 mil. It just stuck out to me because I thought it was interesting putting an actual dollar amount on the value of a prospect, and really interesting in realizing that the value is almost all held by the owners. Like we'd spend $4mil for a borderline prospect, and Littell wouldn't get a cent of it.

[Jham]

Since the eating of the contract wasn't listed in the official transaction I will admit to being wrong or overlooking that aspect of the second trade. Instead of accusing me of trying to re-write history I would appreciate a conversation or reminder of that aspect. A simple "Hey, don't forget that..." sort of thing. That is why I am here, for conversation about my favorite team.

 

It honestly doesn't really change me evaluation of the trade but it is a noteworthy aspect to remember.

I meant no disrespect. The article was well written. Like i said, it seemed like a large detail to overlook, subjectively. Obviously the money involved stuck out to me much more than others. The revisionist history thing was not directed at you and in any case, was over the line.

[Battle ur tail off]

 

I'm afraid this is going to be a very short series of articles, given this FO has made one trade of consequence in three years!  Yes, the Odo pickup was a plus, but let's face it, Falvine didn't risk much in obtaining him.  

To look at the Littell deal as a positive assumes his short stint as a reliever in 2019 was indicative of future success.  Looking at his minor league stats, especially his low SO/IP ratio, there is little(no pun) reason to think he can sustain this success in the majors.  One has to ask: is this the type of reliever you want in a tight, late-inning situation or even in the playoffs at all?  Hope I'm wrong here, but you just can't count on a guy like this with his mediocre minor league record.

If we look at the Anderson, Pressley and Dyson trades vs. Odorizzi one, the best you could give this FO is a C grade.  If they fail to make a significant trade in the 2019/2020 offseason, you can lower that to a D.  Sorry, but this FO reminds me all too much  of the do-nothing Ryan regime, in risk aversion and small-mindedness.

I wouldn't go that far. Trade deadline 2018 they made a lot of trades. Most of those guys are fairly highly ranked in our farm system. Those could turn out to be fine or even great trades. We won't know for another year or two. 

One thing I will give them credit for it look like(assuming 2018 would be the norm), that when they have an asset they know they won't retain, they are way more willing than Terry Ryan was to dump them and get what they can. 

[Channing1964]

This is not cute. Throwing a temper tantrum unrelated to the topic at hand is disrespectful to both the writer and any readers who are actually looking to have a conversation about this article. There are plenty of other places on the site you can vent your frustrations.

oh this is a temper tantrum? Having a high profile upper management position for a professional sports team does not exclude you from public criticism sir. In fact i would venture to say it exposes you to much more scrutiny. I get it that your mind is all in on the Falvine administration but i am afraid to tell you that is definitely not the public opinion...hence.

Anyway...

Just wanted to let you know that I think the response to your post was utter garbage. The mods and writers really have no business lecturing people on decorum if they can't be civil..... from my personal mailbox...oh and this...08:59 AM, said:

 

In no way was your post in the Falvey/Levine thread a "temper tantrum". You insulted no one.

 

The fact that it gets called out so harshly and Tom Froemming's post got so many "thank yous" is appalling to me. This site has a strange twist on things. You have people ranting and raving about how they aren't making deals this offseason in other threads and no one tries to tether that. Then you make a light-hearted seemingly innocuous dig and it gets this kind of overreaction by a board writer. This place is life a wolfpack sometimes and the mods and writers are the worst in that regard. I guess that is the power they have.....but they sure do like to throw their weight around, don't they?

They talk about being respectful and having a civil discourse on one hand, yet on the other hand they engage in some pretty petty stuff.... received today..

If you want to believe Derek Falvey is the greatest front office executive ever...that is your right. It is also my right as a Minnesotan to critique fully his every move that impacts our team. I am happy to give credit when it is due. This is after all Twins Talk right? unless i took a wrong turn and ended up on Derek and Thad's fan club forum.... just sayin....you ain't seen a temper tantrum yet.

[Tom Froemming]

 

oh this is a temper tantrum? Having a high profile upper management position for a professional sports team does not exclude you from public criticism sir. In fact i would venture to say it exposes you to much more scrutiny. I get it that your mind is all in on the Falvine administration but i am afraid to tell you that is definitely not the public opinion...hence.
Anyway...
Just wanted to let you know that I think the response to your post was utter garbage. The mods and writers really have no business lecturing people on decorum if they can't be civil..... from my personal mailbox...oh and this...08:59 AM, said:

In no way was your post in the Falvey/Levine thread a "temper tantrum". You insulted no one.

The fact that it gets called out so harshly and Tom Froemming's post got so many "thank yous" is appalling to me. This site has a strange twist on things. You have people ranting and raving about how they aren't making deals this offseason in other threads and no one tries to tether that. Then you make a light-hearted seemingly innocuous dig and it gets this kind of overreaction by a board writer. This place is life a wolfpack sometimes and the mods and writers are the worst in that regard. I guess that is the power they have.....but they sure do like to throw their weight around, don't they?
They talk about being respectful and having a civil discourse on one hand, yet on the other hand they engage in some pretty petty stuff.... received today..
If you want to believe Derek Falvey is the greatest front office executive ever...that is your right. It is also my right as a Minnesotan to critique fully his every move that impacts our team. I am happy to give credit when it is due. This is after all Twins Talk right? unless i took a wrong turn and ended up on Derek and Thad's fan club forum.... just sayin....you ain't seen a temper tantrum yet.

There's a comment policy. It's pretty straightforward. You violated Rule 2. 

 

There is nothing in the comment policy that says you can't blast the front office.

 

Start a new thread. Even better yet, write a blog. Go crazy, just don't violate the comment policy. 

[Channing1964]

Your evidence for this assertion is...?

It's pretty straightforward. You violated Rule 2. shame on me There is nothing in the comment policy that says you can't blast the front office. Start a new thread. Even better yet, write a blog. Go crazy, just don't violate the comment policy.

shame on me...what will i do if i cant log on to a site that tells me everything is perfect while millionare front office people sit on their hands, bs me, tell ke there is no limit on spending, and do nothing. If i performed like them in my job i wouldnt last a week let alone get an extension. I get it.

I remember hearing how the Yankees bring in potential free agents for a weekend and tour the finer points of their city and treat them to a beautiful weekend. hmmmm....what are we missing here. To simply say geography is a problem is a damn cop out. Do Your Job. rubber stamping everyove the Falvines is part of the Falvine problem. Not by any stretch a solution.

[Tom Froemming]

 

shame on me...what will i do if i cant log on to a site that tells me everything is perfect while millionare front office people sit on their hands, bs me, tell ke there is no limit on spending, and do nothing. If i performed like them in my job i wouldnt last a week let alone get an extension. I get it.
I remember hearing how the Yankees bring in potential free agents for a weekend and tour the finer points of their city and treat them to a beautiful weekend. hmmmm....what are we missing here. To simply say geography is a problem is a damn cop out. Do Your Job. rubber stamping everyove the Falvines is part of the Falvine problem. Not by any stretch a solution.

 

If you have something to say about this article or about those Garcia trades, perfect. Put it in here.

 

If you have something else to say, start a new thread in the forums or write a blog about it if you want to.

 

Again, it is disrespectful to the writer of the article and the members of the community who want to discuss this particular article to attempt a thread jack like that. If you have something to get off your chest, find the appropriate area to do that. 

[Linus]

Probably a wash. Littel gives us some usefulness short term but nothing to write home about

[miracleb]

 

If you have something to say about this article or about those Garcia trades, perfect. Put it in here.

 

If you have something else to say, start a new thread in the forums or write a blog about it if you want to.

 

Again, it is disrespectful to the writer of the article and the members of the community who want to discuss this particular article to attempt a thread jack like that. If you have something to get off your chest, find the appropriate area to do

Tom,  I  agree that there is no reason to disrespect anyone.   I also don't think there is anything wrong with explaining why the trade(s) were good or bad.   Sure, we could trade Lewis, Thorpe, Larnach, etc for a number 4 starter this year and it would be more beneficial for the Twin's record in 2020.   You can't look at these things in a vacuum.   If, 5 years from now, it is obvious that Ynoa is better than Littell, then it can be confirmed that it was botched.   No harm in admitting that.

[Nate Palmer]

 

I meant no disrespect. The article was well written. Like i said, it seemed like a large detail to overlook, subjectively. Obviously the money involved stuck out to me much more than others. The revisionist history thing was not directed at you and in any case, was over the line.

 

Appreciate the words and your reading of the article. I do appreciate also the pointing out of the oversight on my part. Thanks!

[old nurse]

 

Oh goodness. I was going off the top of my head from memory. When I said DFA, I meant Rule 5. Twins traded for him in June and had to add him in November. Regardless, I didn't think he was worth $4 mil. It just stuck out to me because I thought it was interesting putting an actual dollar amount on the value of a prospect, and really interesting in realizing that the value is almost all held by the owners. Like we'd spend $4mil for a borderline prospect, and Littell wouldn't get a cent of it.

Littell seemed to have figured something out in AA that year.  I don't think it would be an incorrect observation that at the time there was not a whole lot of pitching prospects in the organization that were near major league ready. They maybe could have got him in the rule v draft. Maybe not. If over the next 4 years he is a good set up pitcher then the trade is a good one.  I don't think it was a bad one. Garcia was not a long term solution, nor a short term one. The 4 million was wasted anyways.  Garcia had a decent run in St. Louis. Nobody kept him long after he was traded the first time. To get anything for him was a plus.

In trading Ynoa, they were giving up on a prospect while he still had some value.  Like Littell he has some talent but has not reached it. It will still take a couple years to see if it was a good trade or not.

[Tom Froemming]

Tom, I agree that there is no reason to disrespect anyone. I also don't think there is anything wrong with explaining why the trade(s) were good or bad. Sure, we could trade Lewis, Thorpe, Larnach, etc for a number 4 starter this year and it would be more beneficial for the Twin's record in 2020. You can't look at these things in a vacuum. If, 5 years from now, it is obvious that Ynoa is better than Littell, then it can be confirmed that it was botched. No harm in admitting that.

Absolutely, there are several comments on this article that call into to question elements of these trades and/or Nate's analysis. No problem with that. There isn't a requirement of positivity/universal agreement.

 

The problem is when people attempt to steer an article like this into an unrelated area of discussion. There are several options for people to share their thoughts here. If someone has an axe to grind about something unrelated to the article/thread, they can start a new thread, write a blog post, etc. in regard to that topic.

[Reptevia]

I think this was a good trade. People on here are bitching about the Twins paying a little extra for help immediately? Isn’t that what you all have been demanding the Twins do now? Also, it can’t definitely be said that Jaimie didn’t help. The rest of the team lost a bunch of games, and we went from certain buyers to probable sellers. Then they went on to make the playoffs. Baseball is funny.

[railmarshalljon]

 

shame on me...what will i do if i cant log on to a site that tells me everything is perfect while millionare front office people sit on their hands, bs me, tell ke there is no limit on spending, and do nothing. If i performed like them in my job i wouldnt last a week let alone get an extension. I get it.
I remember hearing how the Yankees bring in potential free agents for a weekend and tour the finer points of their city and treat them to a beautiful weekend. hmmmm....what are we missing here. To simply say geography is a problem is a damn cop out. Do Your Job. rubber stamping everyove the Falvines is part of the Falvine problem. Not by any stretch a solution.

 

 The manner in which the Yankees court their free agent targets has nothing to do with this article.