Grandal to the Palehose - Looks like someone else wants to play

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

My question with Grandal would be that he is 31 years old. How much longer is he going to be a catcher, if he isn't a catcher, is he really worth this contract?  Very few catchers are able to stay at that position into there 30's. 

FWIW, Grandal's had a lighter workload than some other catchers:

 

 

Grandal’s not young (he turned 31 a couple of weeks ago), but he also doesn’t have an obscene number of innings behind the plate. Even adding in his minor league record, Grandal knee-odometer has fewer than 900 professional catching starts on them. (Contrast that with players like Buster Posey at nearly 1,100 at the same age and Yadier Molina around 1,300.)

 

Plus, Grandal's been as solid as ever with the bat at age 29-30 -- I don't know if you should really compare him to, say, Lucroy, who had a big down year at 29, or Brian McCann, who had a down year at age 30, or Wieters, who wasn't particularly good at either 29 or 30. Those guys may have already been showing signs of an early 30s decline by the age Grandal is now.

 

No guarantees, of course, but it would appear the White Sox have good reason to bet on him for a few years at least. (And they don't necessarily need him to still be a stud catcher at age 34 -- that season may just have been the price required to get his age 31-32-33 seasons.)

[Vanimal46]

Abreu signs extension.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

but instead are obligated for his 2023 production at $18M plus when he'll be 35.

Not quite -- Grandal will turn 35 in Nov. 2023, after this contract is over. Age 31-34 seasons.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm not sure how to rank batters PA by position played

In the Fangraphs "Split" drop down menu, you can select a position and it will show only the stats the player or team accumulated at that position:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=0&season=2019&month=35&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31&sort=5,d

[Mike Sixel]

Way too much for Abreu. They must really be planning to up the budget.

[Mike Sixel]

“it’s also undeniable that Abreu has emerged as the heart of the White Sox in recent years. The front office, ownership and teammates alike have lauded Abreu for his leadership and the manner in which he mentors young players as they arrive on the scene. He’s also a fixture in the community on the south side of Chicago and is generally beloved by Sox fans. All of that surely factors in when pricing out a deal and is particularly likely to resonate with owner Jerry Reinsdorf, who has been vocal about his desire to keep Abreu in a Sox uniform (as has GM Rick Hahn).”

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/white-sox-extend-jose-abreu.html

[USAFChief]

 

I don't think that follows at all.

 

A workhorse starting pitcher faces more batters' plate appearances in a season, than a full-time position player has plate appearances. Trevor Bauer led the majors by pitching to 911 PA in 2019; Marcus Semien went to the plate 747 times.  If anything, it supports the notion to pay handsomely for the right pitcher.

 

I'm not sure how to rank batters PA by position played, but Realmuto may have led the majors with 568 PA as a catcher. That is more of a difference compared to the league leading batter, than the difference between top pitcher and top batter.

 

It's not the literal "every day" aspect. It's the quantity.

 

If the smileyface icon you included means your comment was entirely a joke, I guess I forgot to laugh.

If you're comparing batters faced by Bauer to PAs by Semien, shouldn't you include the value Semien provided defensively? How many opposing PAs did he defend against?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If you're comparing batters faced by Bauer to PAs by Semien, shouldn't you include the value Semien provided defensively? How many opposing PAs did he defend against?

Good point.

 

Not to mention, SPs have a large impact on a fairly small number of games, while position players have a small impact on a large number of games. I'm not sure how that all balances, but I wouldn't necessarily expect a 1:1 ratio in PA / batters faced.

[USAFChief]

 

Way too much for Abreu. They must really be planning to up the budget.

Way too much? Career .862 OPS. Worst season is a 117 OPS+. He's a good hitter. Durable, reliable, middle of the order bat. 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Way too much? Career .862 OPS. Worst season is a 117 OPS+. He's a good hitter. Durable, reliable, middle of the order bat. 

Abreu also just had his two worst seasons at age 31-32. He was already an edge case for QO at 1/17.8 -- there's definitely an argument that they probably didn't have to commit to his age 33-35 seasons at this rate.

 

Of course, it's not enough that it's going to hurt them either, even if Abreu declines further. And it mitigates some of the risk of filling that spot year-to-year (i.e. Yonder Alonso last year).

[ashbury]

If you're comparing batters faced by Bauer to PAs by Semien, shouldn't you include the value Semien provided defensively? How many opposing PAs did he defend against?

If that was an important factor, no-hit good-glove guys would be pulling in the big bucks, but they aren't. Now that Andrelton Simmons's hitting has regressed, his relatively modest contract is widely considered an overpay, isn't it? Back to catching, Jeff Mathis seems to have a pretty good defensive rep - considering his pathetic contributions year after year after year he has to - but his peak salary was $3.25M. GM's just don't pay that much of a premium for defense. Grandal is being paid for his bat. It's not a very efficient way to fill the DH spot (which seems to be the intended effect even if he's not literally the DH on a given day).

[Mike Sixel]

 

Way too much? Career .862 OPS. Worst season is a 117 OPS+. He's a good hitter. Durable, reliable, middle of the order bat. 

 

Those guys aren't paid that much now, and we are going to assume he keeps up his career numbers as he enters his mid-30s? this is all about the intangible stuff, imo.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Good point.

 

Not to mention, SPs have a large impact on a fairly small number of games, while position players have a small impact on a large number of games. I'm not sure how that all balances, but I wouldn't necessarily expect a 1:1 ratio in PA / batters faced.

 

I know chief will love this, but it is one of the uses of WAR....comparing value across positions.

[biggentleben]

 

McCann + Grandal = best catching combo in MLB

Maybe that’s a bit expensive, but I think it’s a good move for them.

 

McCann was a negative defender last year. Grandal is a monster upgrade over a bat-first backup type.

[Vanimal46]

[Richie the Rally Goat]

So that means Ryu will sign for what? 4 years 76 to 5 years 98?

[Vanimal46]

So that means Ryu will sign for what? 4 years 76 to 5 years 98?

I remember posting something in the Ryu thread people in the industry think 4/80 is the minimum.

[cardsfan]

If Ryu stays healthy which is a big if.

[Diesel]

Uh oh

[MMMordabito]

 

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That's just great.  They get a guy with a career 954 OPS against the Twins.  That 30 win advantage is really starting to evaporate.

[MMMordabito]

... and they want to upgrade the bullpen too

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/12/white-sox-rumors-bullpen-relievers.html

 

The good news for Sox fans is that the team still hasn’t even topped its previous record payroll, however. There isn’t a name among the best remaining relievers that the ChiSox can’t fit into their budget — and that’s all the more true if owner Jerry Reinsdorf is willing to push spending levels to new heights as he strives to emerge from the long-running rebuild, as one would expect. The White Sox’ offseason moves to date have already made the AL Central race much more interesting, and it seems a few more additions could be on the horizon.

[USAFChief]

White Sox sign Steve Cishek.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

White Sox sign Steve Cishek.

Smart move and money by CWS. A move I would have liked by MN instead of Romo.

[USAFChief]

 

Smart move and money by CWS. A move I would have liked by MN instead of Romo.

Concur. Or in addition to.

[KirbyDome89]

Remember when people were snickering about the Sox making moves earlier in the offseason?

 

I do.....

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

Remember when people were snickering about the Sox making moves earlier in the offseason?

 

I do.....

I also like the 6 year extension of Luis Robert, this after the 6 year deal to Eloy Jimenz last year. Nice to see their FO show some confidence in what they are doing. Since the Twins FO didn't sign the impact players they thought of signing it would be nice if they would sign the future impact players they have to deals. But I get it, there is a risk involved....