Grandal to the Palehose - Looks like someone else wants to play

[MMMordabito]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/white-sox-sign-yasmani-grandal.html

[dbminn]

Grandal's bet paid off - 4 yr/$73M. A good move by Chicago considering their young rotation. 

[SwainZag]

$18.25M per year.  A lot of coin for a guy who is going to catch 100 games per year and strike out 1/4 of the time.

[TFRazor]

 

$18.25M per year.  A lot of coin for a guy who is going to catch 100 games per year and strike out 1/4 of the time.

Yeah but during those 100 games the pitches are going to be beautifully framed

[MMMordabito]

 

Grandal's bet paid off - 4 yr/$73M. A good move by Chicago considering their young rotation. 

 

Agreed ... Time for Falvine to up the ante and get something done to help the Twins rotation

[TFRazor]

I'm not sure what to think of Chicago. This move just adds to the talent on the team. If that guaranteed you wins I'd say they'd be pretty dangerous. However, thinking back to some of their games last year, I feel like there were several games were they just kind of quit once they fell behind. Now maybe it was just a couple of incidences that are clouding up my hindsight or a couple late season games but that was an impression I came away with

[Mike Sixel]

$18.25M per year. A lot of coin for a guy who is going to catch 100 games per year and strike out 1/4 of the time.

I suppose if you ignore everything else he does.... Like offense and defense and veteran leadership....

[SwainZag]

 

I suppose if you ignore everything else he does.... Like offense and defense and veteran leadership....

 

He's a + defender and solid bat, a good player no doubt. It's still a lot of money for a guy on the wrong side of 30, who will catch 2/3 of their team's games, at least IMO.

[Danchat]

McCann + Grandal = best catching combo in MLB

 

Maybe that’s a bit expensive, but I think it’s a good move for them.

[Mike Sixel]

He's a + defender and solid bat, a good player no doubt. It's still a lot of money for a guy on the wrong side of 30, who will catch 2/3 of their team's games, at least IMO.

It is. No doubt. But they have the money, apparently. It's a fairly young team overall. I'm guessing they sign an expensive pitcher also. I suppose they could just pocket the money

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

Grandal's bet paid off - 4 yr/$73M. A good move by Chicago considering their young rotation. 

Mets offered him 4/60 and many posters on rumors site were ripping his agency and him for not taking it. He instead winds up with 5/91.25. Good move for Grandal and also for CWS I'm betting. Now, lets hope the Twins get 2 better than Berrios SP's. If not I can see the Sox as being the team that can very quickly slam our "window" shut.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

It is. No doubt. But they have the money, apparently. It's a fairly young team overall. I'm guessing they sign an expensive pitcher also. I suppose they could just pocket the money

Maybe they might want to keep their financial flexibility.......

[Mike Sixel]

He's widely regarded as one of the two or three best humans on the planet at his job. I doubt he's underpaid....

[COTwinsFan]

 

I suppose if you ignore everything else he does.... Like offense and defense and veteran leadership....

 

My question with Grandal would be that he is 31 years old. How much longer is he going to be a catcher, if he isn't a catcher, is he really worth this contract?  Very few catchers are able to stay at that position into there 30's. 

[Mike Sixel]

My question with Grandal would be that he is 31 years old. How much longer is he going to be a catcher, if he isn't a catcher, is he really worth this contract? Very few catchers are able to stay at that position into there 30's.

. Reasonable question.

 

But you can't always be afraid of the downside risk. Not if you want to win at some point.

[MMMordabito]

 

My question with Grandal would be that he is 31 years old. How much longer is he going to be a catcher, if he isn't a catcher, is he really worth this contract?  Very few catchers are able to stay at that position into there 30's. 

 

I would agree if they were playing the lion's share of games, but that just isn't the case anymore. Only a handful of catchers even qualified for leading average type statistics.  Here is the list of FAs, and they are all over 30.  They won't all get jobs, but the ones that do will still catch.  These aren't bat first players.

 

Catchers

Yasmani Grandal (31 years old, 5.2 WAR) -- signed with CWS (11/21)
Robinson Chirinos (36, 2.3)
Jason Castro (33, 1.6)
Travis d’Arnaud (31, 1.6)
Alex Avila (33, 1.3)
Russell Martin (37, 1.2)
Austin Romine (31, 0.9)
Stephen Vogt (35, 0.9)
Martín Maldonado (33, 0.8)
Yan Gomes (32, 0.8)
Francisco Cervelli (34, 0.1)
René Rivera (36, 0.0)
Nick Hundley (36, -0.3)
Matt Wieters (34, -0.3)
Bryan Holaday (32, -0.3)
Drew Butera (36, -0.5)
Jonathan Lucroy (34, -0.5)
Chris Iannetta (37, -0.5)
Welington Castillo (33, -1.0)

[SomeGuy]

Grandal played 1B for 20 games last year and has DH as an option for the first time in his career.  I think he contributes to more than 2/3 of the games.  He had 632 Plate appearances without the DH last year.

 

And with the way McCann wore down last season, he could be very good in a limited role.

 

1st half .316/.371/.502

2nd half .226/.281/.413

[COTwinsFan]

 

. Reasonable question.

But you can't always be afraid of the downside risk. Not if you want to win at some point.

 

This is something that I have evolved on in the last few years. I do agree that you can't be afraid of the downside risk, but for me personally I think a team should take those risks on elite pitchers and not on position players. Obviously this is clouded by the recency bias of the Astros and Nationals success, but I do think position players are just more replaceable. 

 

My position could change in the next couple years, but it seems like pitchers are just much more important especially in the playoffs and thus are more worthy of the risk. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

This is something that I have evolved on in the last few years. I do agree that you can't be afraid of the downside risk, but for me personally I think a team should take those risks on elite pitchers and not on position players. Obviously this is clouded by the recency bias of the Astros and Nationals success, but I do think position players are just more replaceable. 

 

My position could change in the next couple years, but it seems like pitchers are just much more important especially in the playoffs and thus are more worthy of the risk. 

 

Fair. I really think this calls into question paying Abreu as much as they did.......they really need to go get at least one SP....

[COTwinsFan]

 

Fair. I really think this calls into question paying Abreu as much as they did.......they really need to go get at least one SP....

 

I also view everything under the lense of the Twins and I don't think Grandal would be worth that contract to the Twins even if we didn't have Garver. I think the Twins need to take all of their risk on upside pitching. The Twins have proven to be able to develop and find above league average hitting through both the minor league development and short term contracts to veterans. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I would agree if they were playing the lion's share of games, but that just isn't the case anymore. Only a handful of catchers even qualified for leading average type statistics.  Here is the list of FAs, and they are all over 30.  They won't all get jobs, but the ones that do will still catch.  These aren't bat first players.

 

Catchers

Yasmani Grandal (31 years old, 5.2 WAR) -- signed with CWS (11/21)

Robinson Chirinos (36, 2.3)

Jason Castro (33, 1.6)

Travis d’Arnaud (31, 1.6)

Alex Avila (33, 1.3)

Russell Martin (37, 1.2)

Austin Romine (31, 0.9)

Stephen Vogt (35, 0.9)

Martín Maldonado (33, 0.8)

Yan Gomes (32, 0.8)

Francisco Cervelli (34, 0.1)

René Rivera (36, 0.0)

Nick Hundley (36, -0.3)

Matt Wieters (34, -0.3)

Bryan Holaday (32, -0.3)

Drew Butera (36, -0.5)

Jonathan Lucroy (34, -0.5)

Chris Iannetta (37, -0.5)

Welington Castillo (33, -1.0)

Not to mention the Poseys, Martins and Molinas of the world, who are still catching.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

It is. No doubt. But they have the money, apparently. It's a fairly young team overall. I'm guessing they sign an expensive pitcher also. I suppose they could just pocket the money

Who do you see them pursuing?

 

I'll say Wheeler maybe?

[gunnarthor]

It's a good move. It makes them better. If you squint, you can see a .500 team in Chicago already. They have some serious issues and their lineup is older than I thought but they have some quality young talent as well. I would be very surprised if they aren't a playoff team sometime during Grandal's time with them.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Who do you see them pursuing?

 

I'll say Wheeler maybe?

 

I bet they are trying on every SP the Twins are.....we'll see if either wins the competition. 

[h2oface]

My bet...... the big Grandal regression will start this year, and continue. I am on the record. This contract is an albatross. Grandal and his agent are the big winners here.

 

Did we sign Bumgarner yet?

[Mike Sixel]

 

My bet...... the big Grandal regression will start this year, and continue. I am on the record. This contract is an albatross. Grandal and his agent are the big winners here.

 

Did we sign Bumgarner yet?

 

Based on what? 

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/instagraphs/yasmani-grandal-gets-his-multi-year-deal/

[h2oface]

 

Based on what? 

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/instagraphs/yasmani-grandal-gets-his-multi-year-deal/

 

Based on my opinion, and watching him play in LA, especially in the post season of 2017 and 2018. He was very streaky in LA, but when he was hot, he was a force. Hey, I may be wrong, but I may be right. Catchers tend to fall hard and fast. We will see...... 

[snap4birds]

The FA signings seem to be pretty quick and for better numbers than expected.  The last 2 winters it seemed to take a long time for guys to get offers.  Hopefully, that is a thing of the past.  I think a large part was certain teams wanting to get out from under the penalty tax.

[Dman]

 

Grandal played 1B for 20 games last year and has DH as an option for the first time in his career.  I think he contributes to more than 2/3 of the games.  He had 632 Plate appearances without the DH last year.

 

And with the way McCann wore down last season, he could be very good in a limited role.

 

1st half .316/.371/.502

2nd half .226/.281/.413

 

I wonder if they are copying the Twins to some degree.  Have two good catchers and keep them fresh so they can perform better when called upon.  Seemed to work well for Garver and Castro this year.  There's is a bigger monetary investment but they are a young up and coming team so should be able to afford it and having good catchers should help their young pitching staff as well.  I generally like the moves Chicago makes and if their young guys pan out for them they are going to have a monster team shortly.  

[Monkeypaws]

If Kopech comes back healthy this year, they have quite a few very nice pieces going forward.