Twins Showing "Strong" Interest in Bumgarner

[Squirrel]

Bumgarnee has blocked “several teams”. So, those teams (almost all the other contenders) aren’t relevant to the discusion.

They aren’t blocked and are relevant to the discussion. He can still be traded to one of them but he can’t be without his say so.

[Squirrel]

Someday TD will give us that sarcasm emoji...

How was that sarcasm? I wasn’t being sarcastic.

[MN_ExPat]

I watched several innings of it. MadBum was dealing. Finished with 11 Ks in 6 innings with 2 runs on 3 hits and 3 walks.

 

He can also pinch hit, if needed.

My bad. Meant to say... Did anyone else watch the game (lol). But yes, you’re spot on with your assessment.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Bumgarnee has blocked “several teams”. So, those teams (almost all the other contenders) aren’t relevant to the discusion.

 

He "blocked" them so that he had leverage in getting more money if traded to them. That's 100% why he did that.

[yarnivek1972]

They aren’t blocked and are relevant to the discussion. He can still be traded to one of them but he can’t be without his say so.

Exactly. But because he has the say so, those other teams pretty much know that to get him will likely mean having to sign him to an immediate extension. That is usually what it takes to get a guy to waive that clause. That might not be something other teams want to do. And if I’m San Fran, if I don’t have to jump through all the hoops to get players I want, why would I?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Exactly. But because he has the say so, those other teams pretty much know that to get him will likely mean having to sign him to an immediate extension. That is usually what it takes to get a guy to waive that clause. That might not be something other teams want to do. And if I’m San Fran, if I don’t have to jump through all the hoops to get players I want, why would I?

 

Because those teams are more likely to pay up than other teams. SF doesn't care about hoops, they care about the return.

[Squirrel]

Exactly. But because he has the say so, those other teams pretty much know that to get him will likely mean having to sign him to an immediate extension. That is usually what it takes to get a guy to waive that clause. That might not be something other teams want to do. And if I’m San Fran, if I don’t have to jump through all the hoops to get players I want, why would I?

I think all San Fran cares about is the return. If one of those teams is offering the best return and Bumgarner wants to go and can work something out, San Fran is going to jump through that hoop. I didn’t say it doesn’t make the trade easier, but it certainly does not make those other teams irrelevant, not by a long shot. But hey, if San Fran wants the easiest trade, not the best, yeah, then forget those other teams.

 

Edit: meh, what Mike said.

[amjgt]

 

He "blocked" them so that he had leverage in getting more money if traded to them. That's 100% why he did that.

 

I'm not thinking it was about money. It's not like he has a team option that he'd like to pick up or get removed. I also don't see a scenario where it would be about getting an extension. I think it's purely about having more control about where he was potentially going to end up.

[jkcarew]

I still think Bumgarner is unlikely, simply because I think someone will come along and blow SF away with an offer. And that that someone won't be the Twins.

 

Having said that, I'm wouldn't part with a top-5 for a rental. (But, I also wouldn't have Graterol in my top 5 at this point.)

 

It's worth noting, though, that almost all the 'reservations' stated in this thread regarding Bumgarner, would have held true...twofold...for a guy like Jack Morris in 1991 (if you imagine Morris had been a deadline acquisition rather than a FA signing). By 1991, all his numbers were trending in the wrong direction...no reason to expect him to be a major difference-maker. But he came in fairly handy...in the regular season, as well. Bumgarner strikes me as a strong candidate to fit that mold of a 'once-elite' pitcher over-performing when reacquainted with competitive teams and competitive situations. He loves winning...and he knows how.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm not thinking it was about money. It's not like he has a team option that he'd like to pick up or get removed. I also don't see a scenario where it would be about getting an extension. I think it's purely about having more control about where he was potentially going to end up.

 

also that, sure.

[howeda7]

Sano and Nick Gordon (or Arreaz) for MadBaum and Will Smith. I realize they probably won't do it without pitching in return, but that would be my preferred package.

[Riverbrian]

At the time he made that list, did anyone think the Twins would be winning as they are? At the time he made that list he came up with a reasonable list of who would be playoff teams to give himself some leverage. And it could play to our advantage. I don’t think it has anything to do with respect. More that no one thought the Twins would be where they are before the season started.

I was being funny.

[darin617]

You never know how his attitude could be if he was traded here. The teams on the no-trade list are teams that you expect to be in the playoffs. That way he can block the trade if a team won't give him an extension now.

 

He could also not be happy going to an AL team so he can only bat in inter league game for the rest of the season. The guy likes to swing a bat. There are also a ton of miles on that arm as well without any serious injury.

 

He is also on the last year of a very team friendly contract 8 years $58M making $12M this year. Does he want to go all out and possibly get hurt and and mess up his chance for his last major payday?

[Mike Sixel]

I don't get this Sano thing at all, but it seems consistent with the board's feelings.....

 

He's still young, still with great potential. And, he's a MLB player. I'd not deal him w/o getting a great pitcher in return (as part of a package). No way I deal him for a rental and a RP. 

[RaoulDuke]

Would be awesome if Nick Gordon could be the centerpiece of the return. 

 

Giants probably want Larnach considering their outfield depth but he shouldn't be in the conversation unless Smith is involved.

 

Badoo + low minors pitcher is probably to light, maybe?

[In My La Z boy]

 

I still think Bumgarner is unlikely, simply because I think someone will come along and blow SF away with an offer. And that that someone won't be the Twins.

 

Having said that, I'm wouldn't part with a top-5 for a rental. (But, I also wouldn't have Graterol in my top 5 at this point.)

 

It's worth noting, though, that almost all the 'reservations' stated in this thread regarding Bumgarner, would have held true...twofold...for a guy like Jack Morris in 1991 (if you imagine Morris had been a deadline acquisition rather than a FA signing). By 1991, all his numbers were trending in the wrong direction...no reason to expect him to be a major difference-maker. But he came in fairly handy...in the regular season, as well. Bumgarner strikes me as a strong candidate to fit that mold of a 'once-elite' pitcher over-performing when reacquainted with competitive teams and competitive situations. He loves winning...and he knows how.

Good comment. I think we would all part with a top 5 for Bumgarner if we are sitting here in November basking in the glow of a world series victory. There is no one I wouldn't trade to get a world series victory. Prospects are just that. Prospects. I do not ever remember having this good of an offense and this good of a starting staff together in the same year. We've loaded up the barn with prospects for this reason - to pounce on this window of opportunity - and deal them, to put us over the top. Now we want to get finicky and picky on who it is that is untouchable? No one should be untouchable when your window has finally opened wider than ever in the history of open windows. Now or never Twins fans. Unload the barn I say and go for it. A shut down bullpen completes the total package, and this team can beat anyone. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Would be awesome if Nick Gordon could be the centerpiece of the return. 

 

Giants probably want Larnach considering their outfield depth but he shouldn't be in the conversation unless Smith is involved.

 

Badoo + low minors pitcher is probably to light, maybe?

 

given Badoo's status, not even a conversation starter....

[Don Walcott]

 

I still think Bumgarner is unlikely, simply because I think someone will come along and blow SF away with an offer. And that that someone won't be the Twins.

 

Having said that, I'm wouldn't part with a top-5 for a rental. (But, I also wouldn't have Graterol in my top 5 at this point.)

 

It's worth noting, though, that almost all the 'reservations' stated in this thread regarding Bumgarner, would have held true...twofold...for a guy like Jack Morris in 1991 (if you imagine Morris had been a deadline acquisition rather than a FA signing). By 1991, all his numbers were trending in the wrong direction...no reason to expect him to be a major difference-maker. But he came in fairly handy...in the regular season, as well. Bumgarner strikes me as a strong candidate to fit that mold of a 'once-elite' pitcher over-performing when reacquainted with competitive teams and competitive situations. He loves winning...and he knows how.

Kind of sounds like a younger version of Justin Verlander from a couple of years ago as well.

[operation mindcrime]

given Badoo's status, not even a conversation starter....

Throw in Gonsalves! Maybe two injured players can get the conversation started!

[howeda7]

 

I don't get this Sano thing at all, but it seems consistent with the board's feelings.....

 

He's still young, still with great potential. And, he's a MLB player. I'd not deal him w/o getting a great pitcher in return (as part of a package). No way I deal him for a rental and a RP. 

He's trending the wrong way and IIRC we only have control of him for 2 more season. 1B/DH who hit .220 with 30 HRs and strike out 45% of the time aren't that valuable. If we can move him for decent value, I'd do it.

[Squirrel]

I was being funny.

Oh, so that’s what Mr. Brooks meant. Sorry. No, I didn’t get that.

[Darius]

If I were more internet chat-board savvy, this is where I’d post the gif of Michael Scott from the Office screaming “No! Please God, No!”

 

Knock the garner off the end of his name and that’s what you’re left. His peripherals are not good the last few years (unless you’re looking for a 3rd-5th starter), especially away from his current pitcher-friendly confines.

 

If you’re going to upgrade the rotation st the cost of prospects, really upgrade the rotation. I might rather have Kyle Gibson start a playoff game. Bum isn’t not even a shadow of his World Series MVP days right now.

 

Also, I’d rather not have a guy that makes an ass of himself on the field every time someone looks up at one of the many HRs he’d give up at Target Field to RH hitters.

[Darius]

I don't get this Sano thing at all, but it seems consistent with the board's feelings.....

 

He's still young, still with great potential. And, he's a MLB player. I'd not deal him w/o getting a great pitcher in return (as part of a package). No way I deal him for a rental and a RP.

People are irrational when it comes to assessments of Sano.

 

Look at his career OPS to date (.813). In his first 6 season in the major leagues, Harmon Killebrew surpassed that number 1 time. Think about that. David Ortiz one time (and he wasn’t good until he was 26+).

 

I don’t know why Ks are even in the conversation anymore. Look around the league. Domingo Santana, who is having a great year, Javy Baez, Bryce Harper, Trevor Story, Luke Voit are all in the top 10 in Ks right now (Miguel is not due to less PT I’m sure). People are striking out a ton these days. Some of the best players in the game are striking out a ton these days.

 

Writing him off now is asinine. Yet, the same people keep pimping Astudillo and his .685 OPS and awful defense. It’s really mind boggling, and frankly, an awful take IMO.

 

Did nobody learn from Thrylos wanting to swap Buxton for a bag of balls and replace him with Granite?

[Shaitan]

I don't get the extension talk throughout this whole thread.

 

Has a single rental player signed an extension IN SEASON in recent years? It happens with trades, but those are almost always in Nov-Jan.

[yarnivek1972]

People are irrational when it comes to assessments of Sano.

 

Look at his career OPS to date (.813). In his first 6 season in the major leagues, Harmon Killebrew surpassed that number 1 time. Think about that. David Ortiz one time (and he wasn’t good until he was 26+).

 

I don’t know why Ks are even in the conversation anymore. Look around the league. Domingo Santana, who is having a great year, Javy Baez, Bryce Harper, Trevor Story, Luke Voit are all in the top 10 in Ks right now (Miguel is not due to less PT I’m sure). People are striking out a ton these days.

 

Wiriting him off now is asinine. Yet, the same people keep pimping Astudillo and his .685 OPS and awful defense. It’s really mind boggling, and frankly, an awful take IMO.

Harmon Killebrew was what was called a “bonus baby”. The rule of that time was that if a player’s signing bonus was over a certain threshold, the player was required to be at the MLB level instead of the minors. Killebrew mostly sat on the MLB bench his first two years as a pro. Then he was up and down the next 3 years.

 

Harmon Killdbrew posted an OPS + of 131 or better every year from age 23 to age 36. Sano thus far has had one such season, and that was in 80 games. He’s 26.

[Mike Sixel]

 

He's trending the wrong way and IIRC we only have control of him for 2 more season. 1B/DH who hit .220 with 30 HRs and strike out 45% of the time aren't that valuable. If we can move him for decent value, I'd do it.

 

why is a rebuilding team trading for him then?

[Riverbrian]

 

Oh, so that’s what Mr. Brooks meant. Sorry. No, I didn’t get that.

 

It's OK... I'm used to it. 

 

It was joke along the lines of: Oh so he doesn't think we are good enough to include on his no trade list. 

 

Not respected enough to be disrespected.    

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I don't get this Sano thing at all, but it seems consistent with the board's feelings.....

 

He's still young, still with great potential. And, he's a MLB player. I'd not deal him w/o getting a great pitcher in return (as part of a package). No way I deal him for a rental and a RP. 

I've been quite critical of Sano's inability to make contact. No freakin' way do I trade him for a rental.

 

I'm critical because Miguel is capable of so much more, not because he's a bum.

[Riverbrian]

Most of the posters understand the Partial No Trade List concept but in case anyone is confused... I'll add a little to it.

 

I believe the partial no-trade clause was created by player agents as protection to avoid signing a contract and getting traded to a terrible team. I don't want to play for Seattle because they are terrible, the flights are long and the manager is a jerk.  

 

However, it didn't take long for agents to realize that the player didn't need protection against being traded to a terrible team because the terrible teams were not buying the players with the clout to get a no trade built into his contract. 

 

So they turned it around and used the partial no-trade contract as leverage by identifying the teams most likely to be looking to make a deal. By listing the teams most likely to ask for the player in a trade... the limited no trade almost becomes a full no trade because the others are probably not asking for the player. 

 

Now the buying team, if they truly want the player, must negotiate with the player to give him what he wants to waive the no-trade. If the Yankees want to make a deal for Madbum, they will have to reach an agreement with Madbum. It's a solid plan. 

 

With the Twins not on the list... they simply have to make a deal with the Giants and take the contract as is... Madbum has no leverage because he can't ask for a better contract. 

 

Madbum and his agent huddled together to come up with the list of teams that they thought would be buyers and it didn't include the Twins... SURPRISE!!! 

 

 

[darin617]

 

Here is some food for thought:

 

2019 MadBum: 

4.16 FIP, 1.227 WHIP, 9.1 K/9, 4.3 K/BB, 6.04 Inn/GS

 

Verlander in 2017 with Tigers before he moved to Astros:

4.07 FIP, 1.279 WHIP, 9.2 K/9, 2.6 K/BB, 6.14 Inn/GS

The rest is history

 

Cannot get closer than that and Bumgarner is 5 years younger than Verlander was then.

 

A change of scenery might make him a game changer for a team, and I hope that this team is the Twins, instead of, let's say, the Indians or the Yankees.

 

What have been MadBum's numbers in interleague in AL parks? My point is he will be facing a DH here. The Twins only have 5 games in NL parks the rest of the season.

 

It's not as easy to succeed in the AL as it can be at times in the NL.