Souhan: Mauer is Twins 2019 Most Valuable Pensioner

[akmanak]

The Mauer bashing on this board is so typical of uneducated fans.

[ken]

The Mauer bashing on this board is so typical of uneducated fans.

The uneducated fan can't seperate a discussion about Mauer from someone bashing Mauer. They are also unable to see the fact the the offense has move 180 degree from Mauer approach and is now leading the league.

[ashbury]

Moderator's note: Please keep to the topic, and avoid side discussions about fellow posters. And please also avoid describing others' opinions as dumb, asinine, insane and ridiculous - if those opinions are really that bad, they should be easy to refute directly.

[Don Walcott]

I disagree with those who believe that Mauer's contract prevented our ownership from signing free agents. However, that's not even relevant to the 2019 team. If Mauer had played this year, it would have been for somewhere around $5 million, not $23 million. There is not a single player on this roster that we couldn't afford while paying $5 million to Mauer.

 

In my opinion, if Mauer were on this team and if Cron was outplaying Mauer at first and Cruz was outplaying Mauer for DH ABs, Mauer would be getting less ABs. He wouldn't be holding anyone back, and he'd probably be contributing to this great season. But that's all opinion and all hypothetical.

 

That Mauer would not be making $23 million if he had played this year is an absolute uncontrovertible fact. To believe anything else would be an insult to the FO's intelligence.

[Doomtints]

Mauer was a key piece of a team that did not exist after 2010. It's like when Michael McDonald stuck around all those years on MadTV after everyone interesting left, with similarly horrifying results.

 

This entire thread is as stale as a holiday fruitcake. It just simply does not matter right now how good he was or how good he wasn't, and it's important to note that I don't think anyone here is saying he wasn't good.

 

It's interesting to hypothesize that his contract hurt nothing on a team that was being run by Terry Ryan. Of course it hurt, but that's all ancient history now.

[Riverbrian]

In a nutshell... here is what bugs me.

The majority of us on Twinsdaily can call out the bull crap. When it comes to knowledge... we are the elite.

Have you ever tried to talk with the average fan at our level.

You can’t talk about Royce Lewis because most don’t know who Royce Lewis is.

They might be able to say... I like this Schoop fella. Where did he come from? After you get through talking about his prove it contract.

So here is what bugs me. A majority of people who read the column... just might believe it. Since it’s in print and all.

[Craig Arko]

In a nutshell... here is what bugs me.

 

The majority of us on Twinsdaily can call out the bull crap. When it comes to knowledge... we are the elite.

 

Have you ever tried to talk with the average fan at our level.

 

You can’t talk about Royce Lewis because most don’t know who Royce Lewis is.

 

They might be able to say... I like this Schoop fella. Where did he come from? After you get through talking about his prove it contract.

 

So here is what bugs me. A majority of people who read the column... just might believe it. Since it’s in print and all.

Welcome to America.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm confused...why is an opinion piece that pretty much everyone agrees has some validity so offensive?

 

Why is it wrong to point out the Twins are better off without Joe Mauer?

It might have something to do with calling a guy who isn’t playing the MVP of 2019 and blaming most of the team’s recent woes on him, despite the front office surrounding him with not very good players.

 

Joe Mauer never constructed a roster, never picked in the draft, and never signed a free agent.

 

Never mind the bad form in bashing one of the five best players to ever wear a Twins uniform, a guy whose career was derailed by a brain injury.

 

It’s lazy, boring, and sloppy.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The team is better this year. By a long shot. And it's fun and enjoyable to watch. I think there a lot of reasons for that, and not just one, as implied. And yes, I read the article. Meh, whatever. It didn't really say much and it's much the defenders and the opposite of that making the mountains out of molehills here. Cron is a step up at first over Mauer. Cruz is a step up over Morrison. We're also better because Dozier is gone and Schoop is, well, better there, too. Glad we have Polanco from the beginning. Didn't see any of that mentioned in the article or by others. We're better because Molitor is gone, too. And several others. We're also better because of huge steps forward by several players. The only one I'd have liked to have kept was Escobar. You make it sound like we're winning solely because Mauer is no longer on the team. That really isn't true. It's a team effort all the way around ... the past team members who are gone, the past manager and coaches who are gone, the players, manager and coaches who replaced them. To make this all about one player, and lay it all at one person's feet as Souhan has and as you are defending ... well, guess I can't say what that is, but it's the opposite of seeing Mauer's name in the title and running to do the opposite of defend at all costs.

 

Mauer is gone. Gone. I don't think he's the reason this team is winning, here or not.

Yes. It’s taking a bunch of positive replacements up and down the organization, all of whom are doing their jobs well, and instead focusing on a negative that no longer exists in the franchise.

 

Lazy, boring, sloppy. It’s pure hack journalism and deserves all the vitriol it gets. The piece isn’t about why things are going right, it’s about scapegoating a perceived negative that NO LONGER EVEN PLAYS BASEBALL.

[USAFChief]

It might have something to do with calling a guy who isn’t playing the MVP of 2019 and blaming most of the team’s recent woes on him, despite the front office surrounding him with not very good players.

 

Joe Mauer never constructed a roster, never picked in the draft, and never signed a free agent.

 

Never mind the bad form in bashing one of the five best players to ever wear a Twins uniform, a guy whose career was derailed by a brain injury.

 

It’s lazy, boring, and sloppy.

You didn't read the article, I take it.

[Kelly Vance]

Jim Souhan is nothing but a bitter sportswriter. Joe Mauer is worth a hundred of his like. 

[Kelly Vance]

 

It might have something to do with calling a guy who isn’t playing the MVP of 2019 and blaming most of the team’s recent woes on him, despite the front office surrounding him with not very good players.

Joe Mauer never constructed a roster, never picked in the draft, and never signed a free agent.

Never mind the bad form in bashing one of the five best players to ever wear a Twins uniform, a guy whose career was derailed by a brain injury.

It’s lazy, boring, and sloppy.

and then some.  Its a cheap shot on a great Twin. Souhan is trash

[70charger]

 

You didn't read the article, I take it.

 

It seems pretty clear that either you don't think money is fungible, or you don't think anyone's performance mattered year-to-year except Mauer's.

 

You need to go back and read it again, because it's YOU who missed the point.

[big dog]

Personally, my takeaway here is the Strib would do a better job of maximizing its assets if it took the money it is paying Souhan and got something more useful, like maybe a reporter and a couple of upgraded staff vending machines.  I don't even bother to do anything more than skim the headlines about the Twins there now.

[Boom Boom]

I feel like Jim scratched the surface on an interesting point, and then proceeded to make that point inelegantly.

 

He seems to be assuming that A- if Joe had not decided to retire, then the Twins would have brought him back; and B- the Twins would have signed him to a contract that would have priced them out of other available free agents.

 

I think the Twins could have afforded all the free agents they got AND Joe Mauer. And for all we know, Joe DID want to come back, but decided to retire only after the Twins told him that they didn't have a spot for him.

 

The more interesting point is what Joe's retirement meant for roster flexibility. Assuming that the Twins had brought him back, I think they still would have picked up Schoop and Perez, and probably Gonzalez as well once Sano got hurt. I think they would not have signed Cron, and kept Tyler Austin as a 1B partner for Joe. That means that there would probably be no room for a dedicated DH in Cruz. I do think that the Twins are a more flexible and balanced team without Joe.

 

I apologize to any Joe Mauer tribalists (lovers and haters) if you are offended. Have a blessed day. -Boom

[akmanak]

Joe Mauer did a fantastic job for the Twins organization and I find it funny that even though the Twins are stomping people still try to find negative things.

[Squirrel]

I feel like Jim scratched the surface on an interesting point, and then proceeded to make that point inelegantly.

 

He seems to be assuming that A- if Joe had not decided to retire, then the Twins would have brought him back; and B- the Twins would have signed him to a contract that would have priced them out of other available free agents.

 

I think the Twins could have afforded all the free agents they got AND Joe Mauer. And for all we know, Joe DID want to come back, but decided to retire only after the Twins told him that they didn't have a spot for him.

 

The more interesting point is what Joe's retirement meant for roster flexibility. Assuming that the Twins had brought him back, I think they still would have picked up Schoop and Perez, and probably Gonzalez as well once Sano got hurt. I think they would not have signed Cron, and kept Tyler Austin as a 1B partner for Joe. That means that there would probably be no room for a dedicated DH in Cruz. I do think that the Twins are a more flexible and balanced team without Joe.

 

I apologize to any Joe Mauer tribalists (lovers and haters) if you are offended. Have a blessed day. -Boom

I think that’s a fair analysis. However, Souhan stated that Joe not being on the team is the primary reason the team is winning. That is simply BS, imo, for reasons stated above. It’s just one small part of many, many things that go into making a team ... who stays, who goes, for how much, and how the new mix actually executes. Joe is not the primary reason.

[Riverbrian]

I feel like Jim scratched the surface on an interesting point, and then proceeded to make that point inelegantly.

 

He seems to be assuming that A- if Joe had not decided to retire, then the Twins would have brought him back; and B- the Twins would have signed him to a contract that would have priced them out of other available free agents.

 

I think the Twins could have afforded all the free agents they got AND Joe Mauer. And for all we know, Joe DID want to come back, but decided to retire only after the Twins told him that they didn't have a spot for him.

 

The more interesting point is what Joe's retirement meant for roster flexibility. Assuming that the Twins had brought him back, I think they still would have picked up Schoop and Perez, and probably Gonzalez as well once Sano got hurt. I think they would not have signed Cron, and kept Tyler Austin as a 1B partner for Joe. That means that there would probably be no room for a dedicated DH in Cruz. I do think that the Twins are a more flexible and balanced team without Joe.

 

I apologize to any Joe Mauer tribalists (lovers and haters) if you are offended. Have a blessed day. -Boom

That’s a fair enough point and I have no doubt that many teams think (at least act) that way but I’ll continue to contend as I have over and over again. Depth, Flexibilty and multiple options are always possible and also the absolute critical duty of every front office to provide every team. Regardless if they are considered contenders or rebuilding.

 

I suspect that signing Mauer to a one year deal would have cost us Cron and possibly Austin. But It should not prevent Cruz just like Cron didn’t prevent Cruz.

[Squirrel]

I suspect that signing Mauer to a one year deal would have cost us Cron and possibly Austin. But It should not prevent Cruz just like Cron didn’t prevent Cruz.

That is a point I will concede because it would have cost us Cron and that would have been, well, not a good thing. I’m glad we have Cron over Joe this year. But we can’t know in any if scenario where we’d be under different circumstances. Maybe we’d still be winning. Maybe we wouldn’t. Can’t know that so I’m in the camp of believing we are where we are because of everything that led us here and there is no primary reason except for perhaps the decision makers that put it together this way. <shrug> That’s all I’ve got.

[Riverbrian]

 

That is a point I will concede because it would have cost us Cron and that would have been, well, not a good thing. I’m glad we have Cron over Joe this year. But we can’t know in any if scenario where we’d be under different circumstances. Maybe we’d still be winning. Maybe we wouldn’t. Can’t know that so I’m in the camp of believing we are where we are because of everything that led us here and there is no primary reason except for perhaps the decision makers that put it together this way. <shrug> That’s all I’ve got.

 

There is way too much "Oh God, Adrianza is in the lineup today" mentality taking place. 

 

I also believe we are better off with Cron but you are absolutly right... this team is a total sum of it's parts and I do not believe that Mauer instead of Cron means more losses especially when you consider that there are days when Adrianza is in the lineup while Cron is on the bench and especially when you consider that Joe is a pretty good ball player in his own right.

 

We are not talking about Taylor Motter when we talk about Joe Mauer. The 23 Million saved didn't go straight into the Nelson Cruz bank account. 

 

Souhan wrote an article that tells me, he isn't really paying attention to things and if he isn't paying attention to things, I'll have to limit the attention I pay to him. 

 

 

 

 

[longstrangetrip]

I hesitate to weigh in because I appreciate so much of what Mauer offered this franchise, and was fortunate to be at his emotional final game...what a terrific moment in Twins history when he came out in his catcher's gear!   But I agree with the minority here who see Mauer's retirement as clear addition by subtraction, albeit for a different reason.   Mauer was not a rah rah type clubhouse leader, but he was the face of the franchise and THE guy whom our young players wanted to emulate.  It seemed to me that "plate patience" and working the count was the calling card of the Twins offense during the Mauer era, because that was the way Joe approached an at bat.   That led to a legacy of taking first pitch strikes that too often were the best pitch the hitter saw (yes, I'm looking at you too, Robbie Grossman).  

 

While Cron over Mauer is definitely a step up in offensive production (without sacrificing too much on the defensive side), the real upgrade for this team is that Nelson Cruz is now the quiet leader that our young players look up to, and Nelson's approach to hitting is 180 degrees removed from Joe's.  I don't know for sure, but I suspect Nelson is telling (or more likely, showing)  the youngsters to not let a good pitch go by, even if it's the first one.  Pitchers love to get ahead in the count, and often they try to do that by putting a fast ball right down Broadway.  While the Mauer Era Twins invariably took that pitch, the 2019 edition is ready to hack at the first good pitch they see.  This morning's Strib told us that 15 of Yelich's 21 home runs this season have come on the first or second pitch.  Similarly, we've seen the Twins swing at that first fastball or hanging curve more than previous years, and the results have been astonishing.

 

Mauer's absence is certainly not the only reason for our hitting resurgence...we have a new crop of hitters that our brain trust brought in, and a new manager too (the hitting coach is unchanged).  But I have thought all year that the change in hitting philosophy due to players now not thinking that they have to "hit like Joe (or Robbie)" is the main reason for the incredible power show this year.  The worst year I ever had at the plate was a season playing for a manager that insisted we take the first pitch...I spent the entire season in an 0-2 hole and swinging defensively.   Now that swinging at a first pitch fastball is no longer a "sin", we see a team attacking the first hittable pitch they see.  And man has it been fun!

[RaymondLuxuryYacht]

 

1. The Twins don't operate under spending limitations? C'mon.

2. The Twins aren't getting better production from that $23m? C'mon.

3. Giving first base, and a guaranteed spot high in the batting order, to a light hitting player who also needed time off often wasnt one factor in keeping the Twins down in recent years? C'mon.

Zero leadership? C'mon!!!!!!!!!!!!!