Article: Twins Payroll Really is Resource Allocation

[rv78]

Another article about payroll and the Twins. Who would have thought?

The Twins even with the opening of Target Field have a limited amount of revenue. You said it yourself, without a big TV contract that's the way it is. So, the biggest question then is HOW DO THE TWINS GET A BIG TV CONTRACT?

The answer is not just from winning but probably more so from fielding the best team that you can, every year. Why would anyone want to sponser them or any Team for that matter when you have money to spend to make your Team better and you don't even try? The Twins are notorius for being CHEAP! The top Free Agents always go somewhere else because the Twins don't commit to winning or even fielding the best team that they can.

[wagwan]

Simple stats, but the Twins are actually very close to the median payroll of $108 million. What we have here is the teams that will be in the playoffs again,Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and Cubs spending almost twice as much as the rest of the league. So median is what to look at. The Twins are right in the middle so they can expect to compete for that 2nd wild card if things break right and have a 1 game playoff season.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I think that many people are missing the point about payroll. It's more about investing when the time is right.

 

First, if the Twins get $260 million/year in revenues and plan to spend 50% of that, theoretically they should spend $130 million a year and therefore should spend another $30 million or more on payroll. Thus, people are looking at that single number and wondering why the Twins aren't spending more now, in an apparent belief that the $30 million will disappear into the ether.

 

But that $30 million does not disappear. If the Twins are smart, and I'm going to assume that they are, then they will have that to spend in another year. Thus, if things work out right this coming season, they can spend more on the roster next year and theoretically can spend $160 million in 2020.

 

 

This is not how it works. The budget is like the government. Use it or lose it. Any profit goes to buy Pohlad another yacht.

[ashbury]

This is not how it works. The budget is like the government. Use it or lose it. Any profit goes to buy Pohlad another yacht.

We don't know with certainty what becomes of unused payroll. It may get applied to different purposes within the organization to make it stronger. It may go to charity. What we do know with some certainty^* is that it doesn't get banked to the next year's payroll, which does align with your main point.

 

^{* _{No, I haven't invested further time locating an interview transcript from several years ago.}}

[Richie the Rally Goat]

We don't know with certainty what becomes of unused payroll. It may get applied to different purposes within the organization to make it stronger. It may go to charity. What we do know with some certainty^* is that it doesn't get banked to the next year's payroll, which does align with your main point.

 

^{* _{No, I haven't invested further time locating an interview transcript from several years ago.}}

can’t I just have a little hyperbole?

[USAFChief]

can’t I just have a little hyperbole?

A little hyperbole is the most difficult thing to achieve in the history of the internet.

[mazeville]

 

This is not how it works. The budget is like the government. Use it or lose it. Any profit goes to buy Pohlad another yacht.

 

Do you know this or are you just saying this?

 

And yeah, actually it is how these things should work, at least. Most companies work to generate a profit, and that profit goes into cash, which can be used to either pay investors through some form of a dividend or to reinvest back into the company. 

 

Theoretically, the Twins should use this $30 million in savings to reinvest back into the team in future years. 

[Mike Sixel]

Do you know this or are you just saying this?

 

And yeah, actually it is how these things should work, at least. Most companies work to generate a profit, and that profit goes into cash, which can be used to either pay investors through some form of a dividend or to reinvest back into the company.

 

Theoretically, the Twins should use this $30 million in savings to reinvest back into the team in future years.

They've said they don't do that, not in terms of salary. No, I don't have a link handy.

[mazeville]

 

You ask a fair question, and a quick bit of web-searching didn't turn up the particular interview I was thinking of. Such articles are sometimes hard to find if you don't remember the exact phrase that would identify it. I was hoping someone else might have spoken up with a link they found, but so far, no luck. Russia, if you are listening, I hope you're able to find the links I am thinking of. Until such a link is found, please amend my previous statement with "I believe" - since I still do.

 

I have repeatedly seen the 50% number but I have not seen anything that says anything to the contrary of what I wrote. I do not know whether they would do that or not. But I'm going to keep some faith in the current regime until I see evidence otherwise.

 

The problem the past few years is that the Twins have not been competitive enough where it would have been a good idea to invest in free agents, which has pulled down their payroll figure. They spent 50% of their revenue last year on payroll and the team stunk. 

 

I'm not terribly excited about it. I'll admit I'd rather see them sign someone like Manny Machado. But I understand the move given the big question marks surrounding players like Byron Buxton and Miguel Sano.

 

Way too many people harsh on the Twins to spend for spending's sake. But I would much rather see this team make intelligent decisions, which means holding back during uncertain years and then going after it when the team is close to contention. As I said in the original post, if they fail to make moves when the time is right (in other words, no holding back when you get the chance to trade for Alfonso Soriano or signing a top pitcher) then I will be at Target Field with a pitchfork, in the front row. 

[mazeville]

 

They've said they don't do that, not in terms of salary. No, I don't have a link handy.

 

I have listened to and read an awful lot of Twins pieces and nothing has given me that indication. So my comment stands until I see otherwise.

 

Not one person has been able to produce a link to back up their assumption that excess profits from keeping salaries low are not reinvested back into the team. 

[Mike Sixel]

No one is asking them to spend for spends sake. We are asking them to sign better, more expensive, players. To make the team better. If they miraculously end up with too many good players, I'm sure other teams will trade for them. If they end up with a bad team, but the free agents are good, they can trade them. If the free agents all end up bad, then they aren't good at the jobs.....

 

But no one is asking them to spend for any reason other than we are fans and want better players.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Mike Sixel

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Do you know this or are you just saying this?

 

And yeah, actually it is how these things should work, at least. Most companies work to generate a profit, and that profit goes into cash, which can be used to either pay investors through some form of a dividend or to reinvest back into the company.

 

Theoretically, the Twins should use this $30 million in savings to reinvest back into the team in future years.

Judy from Big Lake is my hero http://twinsdaily.com/topic/31775-article-rundown-judy-from-big-lake-baldelli-buxton-meeting-and-more/?fromsearch=1

 

https://www.twincities.com/2018/11/17/charley-walters-vikings-need-back-to-back-north-conquests/

 

Quote

 

Mauer’s retirement leaves the Twins without a $23 million salary commitment for next season. But that doesn’t necessarily mean an extra $23 million for free agency, club owner Jim Pohlad said.

 

“It’s not like ‘OK, we’ve got this money now, and we didn’t have it before, so we can do so much more,’ ” Pohlad said. “I don’t feel that way.”

 

End Quote

 

I’m still pissed

Edited January 22, 2019 by Sconnie

[Mr. Brooks]

I have listened to and read an awful lot of Twins pieces and nothing has given me that indication. So my comment stands until I see otherwise.

 

Not one person has been able to produce a link to back up their assumption that excess profits from keeping salaries low are not reinvested back into the team.

It's not an assumption. It's been reported. Not being able to find a link is not the same thing as not existing.

I don't know if or how much savings they reinvest in the organization, but as far as actual payroll, they've explicitly said they do not carry over savings to future years.

[TheLeviathan]

There is an even more direct quote I believe.  It's floated around here many times in the past.

 

They do not use excess profits in future seasons.  They've said so themselves.  

[mazeville]

 

Judy from Big Lake is my hero http://twinsdaily.com/topic/31775-article-rundown-judy-from-big-lake-baldelli-buxton-meeting-and-more/?fromsearch=1

https://www.twincities.com/2018/11/17/charley-walters-vikings-need-back-to-back-north-conquests/

Quote

Mauer’s retirement leaves the Twins without a $23 million salary commitment for next season. But that doesn’t necessarily mean an extra $23 million for free agency, club owner Jim Pohlad said.

“It’s not like ‘OK, we’ve got this money now, and we didn’t have it before, so we can do so much more,’ ” Pohlad said. “I don’t feel that way.”

End Quote

I’m still pissed

 

Thank you for providing a link.

 

You're inferring an awful lot from a single, one-sentence quote. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

Thank you for providing a link.

 

You're inferring an awful lot from a single, one-sentence quote. 

that's the one I could remember/find - Pohlad and Ryan have said as much a few times times over the last 5-6 years or so

[mazeville]

 

that's the one I could remember/find - Pohlad and Ryan have said as much a few times times over the last 5-6 years or so

 

Look, I'm just reserving my criticisms for now. I'm just OK with years like this if, when the team really is ready to contend, they spend more than that 50% number on payroll. If they don't, then that's a problem. 

 

I think free agency is a crapshoot. I'd rather they use it when they are legitimately in contention and that they spend to keep existing players. Given the sheer uncertainty of the roster, I have no problem holding off. But if they DON'T spend, or make bold moves, when there is less uncertainty then I will start screaming.

 

And despite the debates I'm having with people on this topic, I'll say this: Fans have every reason to criticize this team about spending. From 2001 to 2010 this team had a core to contend for a championship but repeatedly failed to get the one guy who could have made a real difference. This, after that whole contraction nonsense. And then we gave them a stadium. And then their team has sucked for most of the past eight years. So they deserve this, IMO. 

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

Look, I'm just reserving my criticisms for now. I'm just OK with years like this if, when the team really is ready to contend, they spend more than that 50% number on payroll. If they don't, then that's a problem. 

 

I think free agency is a crapshoot. I'd rather they use it when they are legitimately in contention and that they spend to keep existing players. Given the sheer uncertainty of the roster, I have no problem holding off. But if they DON'T spend, or make bold moves, when there is less uncertainty then I will start screaming.

 

And despite the debates I'm having with people on this topic, I'll say this: Fans have every reason to criticize this team about spending. From 2001 to 2010 this team had a core to contend for a championship but repeatedly failed to get the one guy who could have made a real difference. This, after that whole contraction nonsense. And then we gave them a stadium. And then their team has sucked for most of the past eight years. So they deserve this, IMO. 

My point in this is 2019 could be 2002 all over again, where a couple of well placed pitching improvements could be the difference between winning/losing a wild card game and winning the division maybe making a playoff push. 

[mazeville]

 

My point in this is 2019 could be 2002 all over again, where a couple of well placed pitching improvements could be the difference between winning/losing a wild card game and winning the division maybe making a playoff push. 

 

And if it is then they have the flexibility to go out and get a costly starter or reliever at the trade deadline -- something the previous regime almost never did.

 

Simple fact is this: The Twins in 2019 are going nowhere if the current core doesn't put it together, and that's a big question mark. To me, it's a defensible strategy to hold off on major expenditures given those question marks. 

[yarnivek1972]

Spending for spending’s sake might eventually encourage better free agents to give the Twins a look. It might shed the organization of their “always doing it on the cheap” reputation.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

And if it is then they have the flexibility to go out and get a costly starter or reliever at the trade deadline -- something the previous regime almost never did.

 

Simple fact is this: The Twins in 2019 are going nowhere if the current core doesn't put it together, and that's a big question mark. To me, it's a defensible strategy to hold off on major expenditures given those question marks.

2002 they won 70 games in the second half of the season. How do you predict that at the trade deadline?