Twins Trade Curtiss to Angels for Daniel Ozoria

[Mr. Brooks]

Surprised we haven’t done this with Jake Reed yet.

Jake Reed was already left off the 40 man, and nobody wanted him.

[Tom Froemming]

I can appreciate all the love for Curtiss, and he isn't the guy I would have dumped, but I can see the logic behind it. I think he averaged 4.4 BB/9 and had an 11.8 BB% the past two seasons, most of that coming in triple A. That's a lot. Fernando Rodney had a 3.9 BB/9 and 9.9 BB% during his time with the Twins last season.

[Mr. Brooks]

I can appreciate all the love for Curtiss, and he isn't the guy I would have dumped, but I can see the logic behind it. I think he averaged 4.4 BB/9 and had an 11.8 BB% the past two seasons, most of that coming in triple A. That's a lot. Fernando Rodney had a 3.9 BB/9 and 9.9 BB% during his time with the Twins last season.

Yeah I don't understand the fascination with fringe MLB relief "prospects" on this board.

Curtiss, Burdi, Chargois, Reed, I'll be quite surprised if anyone of these guys puts so much as a 1 WAR season up in their careers. These are all very flawed pitchers, all of whom will likely wash out of the league within 3 or 4 years.

[dbminn]

I'd have no problem with the Curtiss deal if the backend of the bullpen was:

• May
• Rogers
• Pressly
• Chargois
• Burdi

Instead of Burdi and Chargois, Falvey gave us Duffey, a Tyler Kinney sighting, and a year of Slegers.  Add in the Pressly trade and it looks like this FO has no interest developing a bullpen for this version of the Twins.

 

The FO has some smart people and I like what they're doing with the farm system. But I don't get the bullpen stuff.

 

 

 

 

[howieramone2]

 

So a 26yo fireballing RP with quality SO numbers but some control issues is not only not worth even a single extended shot, but is in so little demand when available, DFA or not-he's available, that he's worth a diminutive SS flier from rookie ball.

Sometimes I just feel like I have no idea what's going on anymore.

It's not that difficult. If they used them last September, they have a future with the team. If not, they are going to disappear. 

[howieramone2]

 

I'd have no problem with the Curtiss deal if the backend of the bullpen was:

• May
• Rogers
• Pressly
• Chargois
• Burdi

Instead of Burdi and Chargois, Falvey gave us Duffey, a Tyler Kinney sighting, and a year of Slegers.  Add in the Pressly trade and it looks like this FO has no interest developing a bullpen for this version of the Twins.

 

The FO has some smart people and I like what they're doing with the farm system. But I don't get the bullpen stuff.

Burdi and Chargois can't stay healthy. The new regime has no interest in those types. For a little over a year of Pressly we got 2 pretty good looking prospects. 

[Doomtints]

Curtiss is too young and too successful in the minors to be giving up on, especially for a team looking for a bullpen. He only has 15 innings in the majors.

 

I can see Curtiss falling into the ace set-up man role, and those of us who remember Romero and Rincon know how much of a luxury that is to have.

[cmoss84]

Guys that throw mid 90's with no control and in their mid to late 20's are a dime a dozen. It comes down to whether a pitching coach sees something he feels worth taking a look at in case something mechanically can be fixed.

 

You just have to have some kind of command, that's all there is to it. If you don't, you are not going to last very long.

 

*I actually liked Curtiss, but I understand why they made this move if they feel he has maxed out his potential

[Dman]

 

Yeah I don't understand the fascination with fringe MLB relief "prospects" on this board.
Curtiss, Burdi, Chargois, Reed, I'll be quite surprised if anyone of these guys puts so much as a 1 WAR season up in their careers. These are all very flawed pitchers, all of whom will likely wash out of the league within 3 or 4 years.

 

I don't know if you want to put Chargios on that list. Or if you do then you need to recognize the FO chose poorly as I believe he had a better season than Moya, Duffey, Busenitz, Magill, Reed and HIldenburger did last year.  To me it would be nice to have the guy that performed better than the guys they kept. Personally, I think that says something about the FO as well.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Yeah I don't understand the fascination with fringe MLB relief "prospects" on this board.
Curtiss, Burdi, Chargois, Reed, I'll be quite surprised if anyone of these guys puts so much as a 1 WAR season up in their careers. These are all very flawed pitchers, all of whom will likely wash out of the league within 3 or 4 years.

Sometimes the process is equally important as the results. I said as much in a different thread but the level of bullpen arms this FO has brought in isn't exactly stellar. The young unknowns aren't being forced out by guys who are clearly more talented or have proven track records. Belisle, Drake, Magill, Kinley, Haley, Turley, Wilk, Rucinski, Melville, Gee, Hughes, Hale, and maybe a few more all spent time on the active roster and saw game action. A few of them were serviceable at times but if you operate on a ridiculously low self imposed budget as the Twins do, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to be certain about the players you're letting go, especially if you're going to be bringing in question marks and castoffs from other organizations.  

[dbminn]

 

Burdi and Chargois can't stay healthy. The new regime has no interest in those types. For a little over a year of Pressly we got 2 pretty good looking prospects. 

 

Chargois was fine last year when he pitched. We'll see with Burdi coming off TJ. The cost for keeping them was very low. Burdi could have been put on the 60-day DL at the start of the season. As far as Pressly, they could've extended him. I don't think Alcala looks good at all. He has trouble hitting the catcher, let alone the mitt. Maybe the FO can do wonders with him but it won't help this version of the Twins in any case.

[Thrylos]

 

So a 26yo fireballing RP with quality SO numbers but some control issues is not only not worth even a single extended shot, but is in so little demand when available, DFA or not-he's available, that he's worth a diminutive SS flier from rookie ball.

Sometimes I just feel like I have no idea what's going on anymore.

 

FWIW for all practical purposes, the Twins have replaced Curtiss with a 27 year old fireballing RP with quality SO numbers and some control issues, who is not on the 40-man roster, Jeff Ames.

[Jim Hahn]

I find this interesting. Curtiss sort of reminds me of Michael Tonkin in a general way. Great minor league numbers, didn't translate to the majors, in a small sample size. In Tonkin's case, his weaknesses sort of outwayed his strengths. He couldn't hold on runners, field his position, his size and lack of atheletism made repeating his mechanics difficult.

 

I haven't seen enough of Curtiss to make the same kind of statement. I do think that maybe the FO views him somewhat the same. Certain weaknesses that his strengths aren't great enough to overcome.

[howieramone2]

 

Chargois was fine last year when he pitched. We'll see with Burdi coming off TJ. The cost for keeping them was very low. Burdi could have been put on the 60-day DL at the start of the season. As far as Pressly, they could've extended him. I don't think Alcala looks good at all. He has trouble hitting the catcher, let alone the mitt. Maybe the FO can do wonders with him but it won't help this version of the Twins in any case.

Falvey was on Inside Twins just after the Pressly trade was made. Basically he said the offer was too good to pass up. He said we got potentially a front line starter and a every player. Maybe his scouts are better than yours.

[goulik]

So now were saying that we traded Curtis for Parker, Ozoria and Ames? That's a pretty good trade for an unproven AAA pitcher.

 

I hope all the best for Curtis and I will not feel bad if he ends up having a decent MLB career. 

[dbminn]

 

Falvey was on Inside Twins just after the Pressly trade was made. Basically he said the offer was too good to pass up. He said we got potentially a front line starter and a every player. Maybe his scouts are better than yours.

Yes, true - they may be good down the road. My point in the original post was about building a pen for the current corps of players. About the last comment... you never question the front office? I didn't say they were wrong... I just said "I don't get it". 

[Dman]

 

FWIW for all practical purposes, the Twins have replaced Curtiss with a 27 year old fireballing RP with quality SO numbers and some control issues, who is not on the 40-man roster, Jeff Ames.

 

I like Curtis' numbers better but you are correct he is a slightly lessor version of Curtis.  Which begs the question if the FO didn't care for Curtis they don't likely care for Ames.  Probably filler as they have already gotten rid of Busenitz, Anderson and now Curtis. Not many relievers left in AAA at this point. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

Ames doesn't need to be on the 40 man.
They didn't choose Ames over Curtiss. They chose a roster spot for Parker over Curtiss.

Very good point.

[Riverbrian]

I have no opinion of John Curtiss. I'm gonna trust the front office because they should know more than I do and the margins are really thin on these type of decisions. 

 

I've seen him throw some fairly non-impressive innings in the bigs but not many innings and a small sample size isn't really fair to the player in my opinion. This simply has me wondering... how would he have looked with some more innings? Did he get a chance to get the nerves out of his system? 

 

And that makes me wonder why Matt Belisle got innings last year instead. 

 

The season plug was pulled and then we took a long look at Belisle instead of Curtiss... This type of thing has to stop. 

 

If Curtiss performs decently for the Angels... the memory of Belisle in 2018 will not keep me warm. 

[Dman]

 

I can appreciate all the love for Curtiss, and he isn't the guy I would have dumped, but I can see the logic behind it. I think he averaged 4.4 BB/9 and had an 11.8 BB% the past two seasons, most of that coming in triple A. That's a lot. Fernando Rodney had a 3.9 BB/9 and 9.9 BB% during his time with the Twins last season.

 

Yeah but in 2017 his WHIP was under 1 so he can manage that if he isn't giving up hits.  Control last year was certainly a problem and he seems to implode when he gets to MLB.  I just think the Angels got a deal here. I think given a chance to settle in he will be OK. 

 

I realize someone had to go I just didn't think it would be Curtis.  It isn't the end of the world as they are likely moving Romero to the pen and I wonder if Alcala ends up there as well. That would give them two more hard throwers.  Jovani Moran has looked good and shouldn't be too far away either so we have guys coming up. I just thought after Curtis's 2017 season he was virtually a lock to make it. Time will tell who came out better I guess.

[Seth Stohs]

After talking to a few people about Daniel Ozoria, here is what I've been able to put together.

 

Weight: approximately 150 now, probably.

Tools: Athlete, field, throw and run. 

 

Also said to have a good swing, but clearly they know that he will need to gain strength for that to play better. 

 

Comp: Engelb Vielma. 

[Mr. Brooks]

Sometimes the process is equally important as the results. I said as much in a different thread but the level of bullpen arms this FO has brought in isn't exactly stellar. The young unknowns aren't being forced out by guys who are clearly more talented or have proven track records. Belisle, Drake, Magill, Kinley, Haley, Turley, Wilk, Rucinski, Melville, Gee, Hughes, Hale, and maybe a few more all spent time on the active roster and saw game action. A few of them were serviceable at times but if you operate on a ridiculously low self imposed budget as the Twins do, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to be certain about the players you're letting go, especially if you're going to be bringing in question marks and castoffs from other organizations.

With only 40 roster spots, it's impossible to be certain about these types of fringe 40 man guys.

Every team eventually has to lose one of their fringe guys before they know for sure what they are capable of.

[Mr. Brooks]

Yes, true - they may be good down the road. My point in the original post was about building a pen for the current corps of players. About the last comment... you never question the front office? I didn't say they were wrong... I just said "I don't get it".

But the FO has to consider future years when they make moves, not just this year or next year.

So I don't think it's fair to say that the Pressley trade was bad just because those prospects won't help us now.

As fans we say all the time, "nobody should be off limits for the right price". Someone offered the right price, they felt it was worth the short term loss to gain the long term assets they did.

 

Is it common to give an extension to a good, but not elite relief pitcher? I'd have to see some examples of that before I factor "they could have extended him" into the equation of short vs. long term asset management.

[twinssporto]

Ozoria should just hang out with Sano.  He'll have that weight up in no time!  

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

After talking to a few people about Daniel Ozoria, here is what I've been able to put together.

 

Weight: approximately 150 now, probably.

Tools: Athlete, field, throw and run. 

 

Also said to have a good swing, but clearly they know that he will need to gain strength for that to play better. 

 

Comp: Engelb Vielma. 

Comp is a guy with a career .393 OPS in MLB? Career .499 in AAA?

A little better than Buxton last year (for MLB), but not better than Buck's career OPS.

Hard to get excited about this.

Kinda like our pitching acquisitions this off-season.

 

[Seth Stohs]

 

Comp is a guy with a career .393 OPS in MLB? Career .499 in AAA?

A little better than Buxton last year (for MLB), but not better than Buck's career OPS.

Hard to get excited about this.

Kinda like our pitching acquisitions this off-season.

 

The Twins DFAd John Curtiss and got something for him. They weren't going to get a Top 50 prospect for any team, probably not a Top 80 guy. So I can't imagine anyone would expect more, or expect someone "exciting". If guys signed at 16 get to AAA, that's a HUGE success for a team's player development... and hey, maybe he can be a big league utility player someday. Or, maybe he grows a little more and can become Dee Gordon. For a guy they just DFAd. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

With only 40 roster spots, it's impossible to be certain about these types of fringe 40 man guys.
Every team eventually has to lose one of their fringe guys before they know for sure what they are capable of.

With a few of them sure, but it's been an exodus of young arms over the last couple seasons. Every team will bleed talent from time to time, but it's usually because established players are blocking younger guys. Just looking at the list of also rans who received innings, coupled with the time this team had to audition players last season it's hard to say it would've been impossible to get a better look at internal options before cutting bait. 

[goulik]

 

I have no opinion of John Curtiss....

 

The season plug was pulled and then we took a long look at Belisle instead of Curtiss... This type of thing has to stop. 

 

This is my problem with the whole thing. Curtiss showed some promise in the minors but was not given much of a chance in the majors. We do not know what we have given up on because we gave people NOT part of the future time to play over those that MIGHT have been part of the future. Run the kid out there in various September situations and find out for sure! Maybe this was a Paul Molitor issue? I don't know but I am a little frustrated by the handling of several young guys.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If guys signed at 16 get to AAA, that's a HUGE success for a team's player development...

Engelb Vielma represents a HUGE success for the Twins' player development? I'm pretty sure success is relative to other MLB teams, and every team either develops guys like Vielma -- or gets them for free on waivers.

[Riverbrian]

This is my problem with the whole thing. Curtiss showed some promise in the minors but was not given much of a chance in the majors. We do not know what we have given up on because we gave people NOT part of the future time to play over those that MIGHT have been part of the future. Run the kid out there in various September situations and find out for sure! Maybe this was a Paul Molitor issue? I don't know but I am a little frustrated by the handling of several young guys.

Agreed and it isn’t just the young guys.

 

Who the Twins give playing time to has been the biggest roadblock by far.

 

Bigger than money spent by far.

 

Increasing the value of as many players as possible not only increases what you get on the field but also in increases what you get back in future trades. Where are our superstars?

 

The organization can’t run like I buy my cars. I buy used and run it into the ground and buy used again... run it into the ground and buy used again.

 

I spent a lot of time last summer looking at what happened to our assets after they left the organization. What we got in return for assets traded. What we have developed for assets.

 

It isn’t pretty and it’s why we are still waiting.