Twins Claim Oliver Drake, Johnny Field

[mlhouse]

Just a typical Twins move, picking up other teams cast offs rather than giving their own prospects a chance.   

 

Instead of this guy with his 8+ERA why not give Luke Bard a last chance?  Why not bring up John Curtiss and give him an extended look?   

   

Recently in the forums a guy that was defending the Twins organization was talking about how precious the spots on the 40 man roster are.  I thnk these moves demonstrate the folly of that thinking.  

[puckstopper1]

 

My money is on Trevor May or Matt Magill being sent out for Drake.

 

I'm thinking Mejia or Moya get sent down leaving Molitor with Belisle and Drake as the top options in the 'pen today.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

This move would be pretty slick by the FO if it is nothing more than an opportunistic look-see at Drake for 7 days, followed by an attempt to get him through waivers.

As I posted above, even if Drake clears waivers, he can reject an outright assignment and elect free agency. And even if he doesn't reject it now, if he is off the 40-man roster, he can elect to become a free agent at the end of the season.

 

This move only really makes sense if you think we want to give Drake a shot right now with an eye toward keeping him on the roster if he performs, perhaps in place of one of our current AAA relievers.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Both went thru waivers. Okay, only a small percentage of American League teams passed,

 

League priority is generally only part of trade waivers.

 

For outright assignment waivers, priority is record regardless of league (although league is a potential tiebreaker).

 

Drake and Field were on outright assignment waivers, as their clubs were trying to get them off their 40-man rosters (and in Drake's case, to AAA because he is out of options).

[Otto von Ballpark]

FWIW, the Twins have previously passed on claiming both Drake and Field this season -- Field was awarded via waiver claim to a team with a better record than us as recently as July 24; Drake, on May 31.

[LaBombo]

 

I'm just stating my opinion, feel free to be upset if you like. 

 

Adding two players to the organization that they feel are worthy is not a big deal to me.  A 31 year old reliever could possibly help the team for multiple seasons, or he could end up in Rochester.  I don't know, but it's another option the FO seems to think will help.  From what I've read, his numbers certainly seem to be as good in the minors as the AAA pitchers.  I don't see the outrage.  

 

Yes, you've repeatedly stated your opinion about other posters, which is that anyone unhappy with the signings or their implications is overreacting with "outrage" and "upset".

 

Meanwhile, back in the baseball discussion, people generally get the numbers that support the Drake signing, like the high K rate and the apparent bad luck BABIP leading to his very high ERA/FIP differential.

 

What many people do not understand or like is the idea that even after signaling a rebuild with the selling off of relatively valuable assets like Dozier and Pressley, Falvey and Levine are finishing their second season with the Twins by filling roster spots with journeymen acquired from the Craigslist 'Free Stuff' page.

 

And you can make all the mischaracterizations that you want about negative reactions to the these signings, but that won't change the fact that it is empirically not a positive indicator for the state of the Twins that the best use of a 25 man roster spot is to audition a village bicycle like Drake.

 

 

 

 

[South Dakota Tom]

   Something that trips me up when I try to think about this stuff....  how much do you think these are related to longer-term roster issues?    I do not sit down with a 40-man roster at my desk every day, trying to figure out what my team looks like next year and which players I will add  - or expose - when that decision arises.

 

  This ties into another thread, but I think it's relevant to this as well.    If my planned roster for 2019 has 7 additions to the 40-man, how much do I want to highlight one (or more) of the fringe candidates in August of a lost season?    If they succeed wildly, I've now committed myself to adding them.

 

    Now I get the other side of the equation - "why in the world wouldn't you want a fringe 40-man candidate to arrive and show that he can help the team?" - but sometimes the only way these acquisitions make sense to me is when I think about constructing a roster for 2019 and 2020 with maximum control and other teams not sniping candidates who I think or hope might get more lost in the roster shuffle once rosters expand.    So I grab a couple of AAAA guys and pad the roster until then, knowing that exposing them at the end of the season is expected.

 

  You aren't going to get away with that for anyone other than a fringe candidate or two, but am I nuts to think that this goes into their thinking?

 

[KirbyDome89]

 

   Something that trips me up when I try to think about this stuff....  how much do you think these are related to longer-term roster issues?    I do not sit down with a 40-man roster at my desk every day, trying to figure out what my team looks like next year and which players I will add  - or expose - when that decision arises.

 

  This ties into another thread, but I think it's relevant to this as well.    If my planned roster for 2019 has 7 additions to the 40-man, how much do I want to highlight one (or more) of the fringe candidates in August of a lost season?    If they succeed wildly, I've now committed myself to adding them.

 

    Now I get the other side of the equation - "why in the world wouldn't you want a fringe 40-man candidate to arrive and show that he can help the team?" - but sometimes the only way these acquisitions make sense to me is when I think about constructing a roster for 2019 and 2020 with maximum control and other teams not sniping candidates who I think or hope might get more lost in the roster shuffle once rosters expand.    So I grab a couple of AAAA guys and pad the roster until then, knowing that exposing them at the end of the season is expected.

 

  You aren't going to get away with that for anyone other than a fringe candidate or two, but am I nuts to think that this goes into their thinking?

No, you aren't nuts, but I'd say that every team has a fairly good gauge of the talent in opponents' systems. Failing to give MLB innings to guys who you think might actually help your team the following year is only hurting yourself IMO. Rule V picks reach into the lower level of the minors sometimes. It's essentially impossible to "hide," talented players without actually protecting them. 

[Major League Ready]

 

It is about what the FO supposedly knows that “we” don’t and presumably the FO of the THREE teams that already let Drake go THIS YEAR don’t know. If they can be wrong about Belisle, and I have seen no one who thinks they are right, they can be wrong about others.

There’s a lot of smart people on this site. A lot of them have been watching baseball for longer than Falvey has been alive.

 

We just had a thread along the lines of why don't the Twins ever come up with a with a Max Muncy and then some of you go nuts over a move that has absolutely zero risk. This presumption that people talented enough to get a million dollar plus job a year while in their early 30s are idiots is incredibly naive. I would add that anyone with an economics background like Falvey understands value better than most, certainly more so than the people who don't understand the law of supply and demand dictates salaries.

 

[Darius]

Its hard not to agree with the overall sentiment, here.

 

On the surface, if we're going to stink and throw in some place holders, I'd rather watch Hanley Ramirez take hacks at the short porch in right and Greg Holland try and return to form. You're at least providing a potential story line with entertainment value.

 

But, I suppose, a few million bucks is a few million bucks. And, if you're going to play for the top 10 draft pick, upside is bad.

 

They seem to have a plan at the moment. As long as this doesn't turn into an annual exercise like it did under TR, I'll remain on the Falvine bandwagon.

[mikelink45]

Not only am I not impressed with this, but I am in Michigan again and watching Niko Goodrum and John Hicks start and play well for Gardy on the Tigers.  How did we let them go?  Then we pick up other dregs just after adding 11 new players to the minors.  I do not understand.

[akmanak]

Dont really understand why many of you are pissed at these moves, the season is over. Maybe the FO simply didnt want to mess with the bringing anyone up front the minors due to what happened to Buxton. Who knows and who really cares.

 

What I care about is unloading the prospects for quality players come this offseason. If we have the current roster carry into next year, well than I would be furious, but for now just enjoy baseball because this team was going nowhere.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Now I see why the front office wanted this guy. He has a fluke-y delivery, "tough to pick up the ball"

[Thrylos]

 

Not only am I not impressed with this, but I am in Michigan again and watching Niko Goodrum and John Hicks start and play well for Gardy on the Tigers.  How did we let them go? 

 

Well, they are just below league average, based on OPS+ 

 

Which means that Hicks is playing worse than Garver and Goodrum worse than Escobar, the players that were earmarked to be the back up catcher and UT for the Twins in 2018.   I know that the Hicks situation happened in 2017 and still Garver was ahead of him,..

[mngopherguy]

 

Not only am I not impressed with this, but I am in Michigan again and watching Niko Goodrum and John Hicks start and play well for Gardy on the Tigers.  How did we let them go?  Then we pick up other dregs just after adding 11 new players to the minors.  I do not understand.

 

Not going to lie, I am surprised by Goodrum's success.  

[old nurse]

 

Not only am I not impressed with this, but I am in Michigan again and watching Niko Goodrum and John Hicks start and play well for Gardy on the Tigers.  How did we let them go?  Then we pick up other dregs just after adding 11 new players to the minors.  I do not understand.

Is it down to bemoaning that replacement level players have moved on?  Hicks would have been considered dumpster diving when the Twins picked him up

[ashbury]

Not going to lie, I am surprised by Goodrum's success.  

How's his fielding been? That was the red flag, for me. His defensive number on b-r.com is negative, but in small sample it's difficult to trust, and the eye test would be worth knowing. It's always possible he may have tightened up a few things.

 

I see he's logged a fair number of innings at first base, and I don't believe his league average OPS becomes any kind of plus there.

 

His hitting for Detroit is about in line with his minor league progression, and his bat is IMO not why he was let go.

 

In some other thread, when WAR becomes a topic of debate, keep Niko Goodrum in mind as the quintessential Replacement Player for discussion purposes. You can even win some games with a roster full of guys like him - they'll have their nights. You can't contend, though, or even hope for .500.

[Riverbrian]

Yes, you've repeatedly stated your opinion about other posters, which is that anyone unhappy with the signings or their implications is overreacting with "outrage" and "upset".

 

Meanwhile, back in the baseball discussion, people generally get the numbers that support the Drake signing, like the high K rate and the apparent bad luck BABIP leading to his very high ERA/FIP differential.

 

What many people do not understand or like is the idea that even after signaling a rebuild with the selling off of relatively valuable assets like Dozier and Pressley, Falvey and Levine are finishing their second season with the Twins by filling roster spots with journeymen acquired from the Craigslist 'Free Stuff' page.

 

And you can make all the mischaracterizations that you want about negative reactions to the these signings, but that won't change the fact that it is empirically not a positive indicator for the state of the Twins that the best use of a 25 man roster spot is to audition a village bicycle like Drake.

Take it easy on Gopherguy.

[mngopherguy]

 

How's his fielding been? That was the red flag, for me. His defensive number on b-r.com is negative, but in small sample it's difficult to trust, and the eye test would be worth knowing. It's always possible he may have tightened up a few things.

 

I see he's logged a fair number of innings at first base, and I don't believe his league average OPS becomes any kind of plus there.

 

His hitting for Detroit is about in line with his minor league progression, and his bat is IMO not why he was let go.

 

In some other thread, when WAR becomes a topic of debate, keep Niko Goodrum in mind as the quintessential Replacement Player for discussion purposes. You can even win some games with a roster full of guys like him - they'll have their nights. You can't contend, though, or even hope for .500.

 

I really don't know about his defense, I was just looking off the numbers.  I never thought Goodrum  would get a run like this in the bigs.  Good for him though.  

[KirbyDome89]

 

Take it easy on Gopherguy.

There has been a lot of concern expressed toward Drake’s sudden appearance on the roster and mentioning that isn’t out of bounds.

I understand wanting to look at our Rochester guys but there is something about this guy they want to look at and I don’t see the harm unless he isn’t used.

If that happens... I’ll join you.

In a vacuum there's nothing wrong with taking a look at a guy like Drake. In fact, you'd hope a FO would always be trying to find that diamond in the coal mine. 

 

The issue is what that looks costs this team right now. He's receiving innings that ideally would be given to younger bullpen arms in AAA that haven't had a chance to stick with the Twins. The organization can audition an early 30s journeyman anytime they wan't; those types aren't hard to find on waivers. It'd be nice to have an idea of whether the minor league arms can contribute or be counted on as actual "depth," before they're jettisoned out of the organization. 

[Major League Ready]

 

In a vacuum there's nothing wrong with taking a look at a guy like Drake. In fact, you'd hope a FO would always be trying to find that diamond in the coal mine. 

 

The issue is what that looks costs this team right now. He's receiving innings that ideally would be given to younger bullpen arms in AAA that haven't had a chance to stick with the Twins. The organization can audition an early 30s journeyman anytime they wan't; those types aren't hard to find on waivers. It'd be nice to have an idea of whether the minor league arms can contribute or be counted on as actual "depth," before they're jettisoned out of the organization. 

 

None of the AAA guys has been lights out. Moya / May are already here. I think the should jettison Belisle and give Busenitz a shot but he has not been great the past couple months. I am just not seeing any great concession in giving Drake a shot.

[Major League Ready]

 

In a vacuum there's nothing wrong with taking a look at a guy like Drake. In fact, you'd hope a FO would always be trying to find that diamond in the coal mine. 

 

The issue is what that looks costs this team right now. He's receiving innings that ideally would be given to younger bullpen arms in AAA that haven't had a chance to stick with the Twins. The organization can audition an early 30s journeyman anytime they wan't; those types aren't hard to find on waivers. It'd be nice to have an idea of whether the minor league arms can contribute or be counted on as actual "depth," before they're jettisoned out of the organization. 

 

I know this much ... had another team claimed him and he did well, there would posters here wondering why the Twins F/O did not grab him given our woeful BP.

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I know this much ... had another team claimed him and he did well, there would posters here wondering why the Twins F/O did not grab him given our woeful BP.

 

I don't recall a "Go get Oliver Drake" thread, but, I have been wrong before.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

None of the AAA guys has been lights out.

It's good to see Moya. But "lights out" is a pretty high standard in a season the front office has quit trying to win. I think a couple of those guys should be called up too.

[yarnivek1972]

None of the AAA guys has been lights out. Moya / May are already here. I think the should jettison Belisle and give Busenitz a shot but he has not been great the past couple months. I am just not seeing any great concession in giving Drake a shot.

No one is saying they have been. But the question remains if Busenitz, et al aren’t better than waiver wire fodder, why are they still on the roster?

 

Funny thing too, some guys actually put up better numbers at the MLB level. Not many. But some. Point being it is worth finding out if they can have success at the MLB level before they end up on the waiver wire themselves. And if they don’t show anything, well I guess then we know something to be added to the offseason shopping list.

[Major League Ready]

 

No one is saying they have been. But the question remains if Busenitz, et al aren’t better than waiver wire fodder, why are they still on the roster?

Funny thing too, some guys actually put up better numbers at the MLB level. Not many. But some. Point being it is worth finding out if they can have success at the MLB level before they end up on the waiver wire themselves. And if they don’t show anything, well I guess then we know something to be added to the offseason shopping list.

 

I am not sure I follow. There are lots of guys who are AAAA types. Teams don't just cut them. I guess the idea is to hope for a Max Muncy scenario. 

[yarnivek1972]

I am not sure I follow. There are lots of guys who are AAAA types. Teams don't just cut them. I guess the idea is to hope for a Max Muncy scenario.

You usually don’t carry five of them on your 40 man roster.

 

Usually guys on the 40 man are guys you think can play at the MLB level. If not today, then someday.

[Vanimal46]

You usually don’t carry five of them on your 40 man roster.

 

Usually guys on the 40 man are guys you think can play at the MLB level. If not today, then someday.

Someday is passing by Busenitz, Curtiss, and Duffey. They're all heading into their age 26 or later seasons. Busenitz especially is approaching 'never was' territory.

[ashbury]

Funny thing too, some guys actually put up better numbers at the MLB level. Not many. But some.

I'm not sure that's common at all, at least not with sufficient sample size in the minors and majors both. But, even granting the frequency you suggest, which is to say "not many", to try and never miss such a diamond in the rough would consume so much roster space you would never have time to give a chance to the legitimate prospects.

[yarnivek1972]

Someday is passing by Busenitz, Curtiss, and Duffey. They're all heading into their age 26 or later seasons. Busenitz especially is approaching 'never was' territory.

And Slegers.