Team Chemistry issues?

[TheLeviathan]

IMO, I think good chemistry will help good teams become very good teams and very good teams become great teams. These are some magical seasons we have seen occur. How sustainable that is, though, I don't know because you see teams have chemistry described as great one year then horrible the next and it's practically the same team (like Boston a few years ago). Bad chemistry likely makes bad teams worse. But no amount of great chemistry takes a team lacking in real quality MLB talent and makes them great. That's movie stuff right there.

Yup, this!

 

I do find it funny how many people are outright contradicting themselves in this thread versus the one about Hanley Ramirez.

 

I value chemistry in a clubhouse. What I don't put much stock in is sour grapes, after-the-fact reflections. Too many raw emotions to treat as accurate.

[old nurse]

 

Let me tell you about chemistry. I flunked high school chemistry, then earned an A in college chemistry. The difference? An undisciplined, unorganized high school instructor forced to teach a subject she knew little about versus a well-educated, inspirational, fun-loving college instructor.

 

Chemistry starts at the top.

For that analogy to apply to Molitor he would then have to be uninterested in baseballand have been forced to take the job. I do not see how that would apply to Molitor.  You could apply that to a one time right fielder, but not the manager.

[Platoon]

Everyone one of us is outside , looking in. And most of us have bemoaned at one time or another the lack of "investigative" reporting on the inner workings of the Twins. Yet, once something comes out, some of us want to "kill the messenger".

 

Something does seem amiss on this club, there is enough talent that it should not be playing this poorly, this long.

 

Someone above suggested that Molitor could be formenting rebellion against the FO. That doesn't seem sensible. But it does in a matter of speaking seem possible. Not outright rebellion, but maybe a lack of respect for, or comments made about the moves made during the season.

 

It is the managers job to keep a clubhouse in order. He doles out playing time, which is the ultimate enforcer. Tales of Torii Hunter straightening out Morneau are wonderful, and maybe Hunter did have an impact. But Hunter never gave or took away an inning in Morneaus career. Hunter could have been an example of "how to go about your business", but that's not necessarily that hard to find in a pro clubhouse.

 

Players generally like structure, they like to have an idea of when, and even why they are playing given the situation. When pitchers see Belisle in the game, and they have sat for 5 days, I would imagine something besides confusion sets in. When a Wilson gets an inordinate amount of starts, given this season, questions are raised. Who wants to pitch and look in RF and see Grossman out there? My point is there have been some serious head scratchers when Molitor is managing. If you win, those crazy moves are overlooked. When you don't, things ferment.

 

I have never had the feeling that Molitor and the FO jived. He is an owners favorite, his hiring by the new FO was probably not voluntary, nor was there a rush to a new contract until the heady MOY award. And Molitors recent comment about having no interest in seeing anyone from Rochester for the remainder of the year was either true, stupid, or an intentional shot over the FO bow. Given the contract status of the current roster, and the talent level of same, he should want to see all of Rochesters players, and Chatanoogas also.

 

As for the Doze, maybe it's best he is gone if he wasn't happy. It was a tough year, salary drive with no drive, another lost first half of the season both personally and team wise, and I am sure the perception that he missed the market for FA by about two years. I doubt anyone would have been too happy in those circumstances.

[jimmer]

 

The players in every MLB clubhouse better learn to adjust to the realities of analytics, which includes far fewer multi-year, 8 figure contracts. It isn’t going away anytime soon.

Players and fans alike :-)

[D. Hocking]

 

ah, got it. We agree!

 

Probably due to your chemistry.

[boomerb5]

 

Probably not Rodney, as they want him back.

 

So, um, Lynn and Duke and, um, who else got a one year deal? Oh, Morrison.....which one of those RUINED THE ENTIRE SEASON?

 

Pretty much everyone on the team was on a 'one-year' deal. There is very little guaranteed money for next year. Dozier, Escobar, and Mauer all fall into this category. They haven't locked down man of the younger guys (Rosario, Kepler, Berrios) like a lot of teams will do. It isn't just the one-year FA deals.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

Just because a stat isn't a baseball card stat doesn't make it not analytics. Every major Corp spends huge dollars on team building, workplace consultants, and hr because chemistry does matter. Baseball still has people playing it, not zips projections or algorithms.

Great post. Makes sense to this economics major, with a minor in psychology.

[NASCAR Steve]

Dozier was only unhappy because of the lack of respect the front office has for him they didn't even offer him a contract in the offseason .. but dozier still went out gave it his all ... the clubhouse has nothing but great things to say about him.. Thad and Derek wanted to get rid of most these guys when they got here.. their looking 6 years in the future while moltior and the team were just looking to catch the Indians .. the clubhouse didn't give up the front office did .. heck they gave up last year..

[S.]

 

Dozier was only unhappy because of the lack of respect the front office has for him they didn't even offer him a contract in the offseason

Or maybe they did and he didn't like the money they were offering, which doesn't equate to the FO disrespecting him. And lets not act like Dozier has been playing out of his mind the first half of the season. And lets not act like there weren't endless amounts of ground balls where he basically walked down the line to first. And lets not act like he didn't make a total ass out of himself with his comments to the media about a bunt in a close game. 

 

It's completely disingenuous to act like the FO gave up when they made a bunch of moves this offseason that SHOULD'VE improved this team over last year. You think those offseason moves were looking 6 years in the future? How was the FO supposed to know that Sano and Buxton were going to turn into some of the worst players in the league? The FO made moves that they hoped would elevate us above last season. Sure, I wish we had got Ohtani or Archer, but even those moves wouldn't have saved us from the awful play this team has produced. If the players are mad that the FO sold when they hadn't sniffed .500 in like 3 months, maybe they should've played better.

 

edit: To add, I'm probably as critical of the FO as anyone on this board, but c'mon. People are really grasping at straws with some of these theories.

[Riverbrian]

I absolutely believe in chemistry. 

 

However... I don't know which players are the chemists and I'm not sure how anyone else would know. 

 

That includes the players themselves.  

 

[NASCAR Steve]

Or maybe they did and he didn't like the money they were offering, which doesn't equate to the FO disrespecting him. And lets not act like Dozier has been playing out of his mind the first half of the season. And lets not act like there weren't endless amounts of ground balls where he basically walked down the line to first. And lets not act like he didn't make a total ass out of himself with his comments to the media about a bunt in a close game.

 

It's completely disingenuous to act like the FO gave up when they made a bunch of moves this offseason that SHOULD'VE improved this team over last year. You think those offseason moves were looking 6 years in the future? How was the FO supposed to know that Sano and Buxton were going to turn into some of the worst players in the league? The FO made moves that they hoped would elevate us above last season. Sure, I wish we had got Ohtani or Archer, but even those moves wouldn't have saved us from the awful play this team has produced. If the players are mad that the FO sold when they hadn't sniffed .500 in like 3 months, maybe they should've played better.

 

edit: To add, I'm probably as critical of the FO as anyone on this board, but c'mon. People are really grasping at straws with some of these theories.

. Dozier didn't half ass ... dozier even said that in the offseason the front office didn't even approach him... yeah he hasn't been playing the greatest neither is bryce Harper .. the front office is a joke and I think most fans would agree ... oh and about those free agent signings maybe they shouldn't have waited until spring training was done to sign lance lynn and Lo mo.. yea they signed duke to help our bullpen and then got rid of him.

[S.]

 

. Dozier didn't half ass ... dozier even said that in the offseason the front office didn't even approach him... yeah he hasn't been playing the greatest neither is bryce Harper .. the front office is a joke and I think most fans would agree ... oh and about those free agent signings maybe they shouldn't have waited until spring trading was done to sign lance lynn and Lo mo.. yea they signed duke to help our bullpen and then got rid of him.

So your theory is that signing Odorizzi, Rodney, Reed, Duke, Lynn, and Morrison were moves looking out 6 years in the future and weren't attempts to improve our team over last year?

 

Dozier is an adult. If his mediocre play is because he's moping that the FO didn't offer him an extension in the offseason, then I don't want him on the team anyways. And how Bryce Harper is playing has no bearing on anything to do with Dozier (besides the fact that Harper also didn't get extended in the offseason). Yeah, I wish we got Ohtani instead of Lynn. Sure, I wish we had been able to trade for Archer. But we didn't, and the moves the FO made still should've been an improvement. But our players have played poorly. No one was looking at offseason moves and expecting this sort of flop from Buxton and Sano. How do you plan for that?

 

If you're proposing we should've been buyers this trade deadline and traded away prospects for rentals, then I simply disagree with you. This team hasn't been .500 since April. People can hem and haw all they want about how we were only 5 games out of .500 and 7 back from Cleveland when we started selling, but that doesn't change the fact that we've mostly been playing uncompetitive baseball this season. If this was a competitive team, they wouldn't be below .500 in the weakest division in the league.

[NASCAR Steve]

So your theory is that signing Odorizzi, Rodney, Reed, Duke, Lynn, and Morrison were moves looking out 6 years in the future and weren't attempts to improve our team over last year?

 

Dozier is an adult. If his mediocre play is because he's moping that the FO didn't offer him an extension in the offseason, then I don't want him on the team anyways. And how Bryce Harper is playing has no bearing on anything to do with Dozier (besides the fact that Harper also didn't get extended in the offseason). Yeah, I wish we got Ohtani instead of Lynn. Sure, I wish we had been able to trade for Archer. But we didn't, and the moves the FO made still should've been an improvement. But our players have played poorly. No one was looking at offseason moves and expecting this sort of flop from Buxton and Sano. How do you plan for that?

 

If you're proposing we should've been buyers this trade deadline and traded away prospects for rentals, then I simply disagree with you. This team hasn't been .500 since April. People can hem and haw all they want about how we were only 5 games out of .500 and 7 back from Cleveland when we started selling, but that doesn't change the fact that we've mostly been playing uncompetitive baseball this season. If this was a competitive team, they wouldn't be below .500 in the weakest division in the league.

no ha I agree that they sign those guys to help but they wait to long to sign a couple.. and I have watch most the games I don't think dozier moped at all yea he wasn't batting the greatest but everybody knows that dozier gets hot in august - September . Plus we don't have a back up plan at second I'm sayin that are FO in looking 6 years in the future because there more worried about bolstering are single a team than about the rest of the season... also I'm not huge on the whole buyers or sellers thing .. not against trades by no mean but the whole buyer / sellers thing is dumb theses days.. and Cleveland could easily have the same record .. they have one of the easiest schedules in baseball.. also Buxton when was with us was playing with a broken toe so I'm not willing to say he's a bust

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

And here, the downside of the analytics movement: "the we don't have a stat to measure it, so it either doesn't exist or doesn't matter" argument.

If only someone had studied workplace productivity in comparison to job satisfaction, compiled the data, and published the result. Oh wait, that has been done. Hundreds of times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/opinion/sunday/do-happier-people-work-harder.html

Just because a stat isn't a baseball card stat doesn't make it not analytics. Every major Corp spends huge dollars on team building, workplace consultants, and hr because chemistry does matter. Baseball still has people playing it, not zips projections or algorithms.

 

I don't think anyone is really saying otherwise.

[nicksaviking]

 

Dozier was only unhappy because of the lack of respect the front office has for him they didn't even offer him a contract in the offseason .. but dozier still went out gave it his all ... the clubhouse has nothing but great things to say about him.. Thad and Derek wanted to get rid of most these guys when they got here.. their looking 6 years in the future while moltior and the team were just looking to catch the Indians .. the clubhouse didn't give up the front office did .. heck they gave up last year..

 

So considering the front office dodged a bullet by not trying to extend him, they were right?

[NASCAR Steve]

So considering the front office dodged a bullet by not trying to extend him, they were right?

in my opinion I think we should have signed him .. or let him play the rest of the season ..

[Mike Sixel]

 

Pretty much everyone on the team was on a 'one-year' deal. There is very little guaranteed money for next year. Dozier, Escobar, and Mauer all fall into this category. They haven't locked down man of the younger guys (Rosario, Kepler, Berrios) like a lot of teams will do. It isn't just the one-year FA deals.

 

No one locks down a pitcher this far from free agency, so Berrios is off the list. Stars are also avoiding extensions if they have been paid in the past.

 

I could maybe see Rosario getting an extension, but I'm not sure who else the team should have already extended. Mauer? Kind of have to see how healthy he is, and if he wants to play, and if you have a younger alternative. Dozier wanted to be a free agent. 

 

They signed Pineda to a two year deal, have already indicated they are interested in keeping Rodney, and Odorizzi has an option.

 

There may be a lot of guys on one year deal, but of those, who would have been signed to an extension before the year started?

[nokomismod]

 

I’m curious about Doogie’s source. I don’t doubt that the clubhouse atmosphere is rough, but the prescription seems odd. Seems like something someone leftover from the old regime might say who has sour grapes, but I don’t really have anything to base that on.

I’m kinda disappointed (if true) that Dozier would say openly he’s happy to get out of that clubhouse. I thought more of him than that.

Just another thing that makes me happy the Dozier era is over. I got tired of him calling out other people and then not producing himself. He was a decent player, but an annoying personality from my perspective.

[ewen21]

 

There was one other player that wanted out of the Twins clubhouse, remember, Cuduyer.

Right.  The same guy who penned an article about how the Twins do things the right way just before the 2011 season.  Then after he was traded after that disastrous season he cited "accountability issues" with the Twins.  He was supposed to be a leader and the voice of the team.  Only goes to show what kind of "leader" he was with the Twins.  I think of Dozier in much the same way