Article: Twins Sign Belisle: What Does This Mean?

[Brandon]

Busenitz (1.9 BB/9 at Rochester) and Duffey (2.3) need to work on their control? Or we're just going to lump them in with other pitchers who do, for no apparent reason except to justify signing Belisle as our 13th pitcher?

Notice i said most. All the other pitchers mentioned in the article were around 4 walks per 9 innings.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Notice i said most. All the other pitchers mentioned in the article were around 4 walks per 9 innings.

So what's the reason for keeping those two down?

[jorgenswest]

The only possible reason is that the front office doesn’t believe that Duffey and Busenitz will not perform well at the major league level.

 

It that is the case, they had last year to make that assessment and it is a critical failure that they did not find better alternatives this winter.

 

On the other hand if they believe either or both can be relievers on a competitive major league team it is a critical failure to keep them in AAA behind Belisle.

 

There is no way I can know whether Duffey or Busenitz have the talent to be a good piece in a bullpen. I do know that the Twins bullpen has cost them more games than reasonable and that responsibility is on the shoulders of the front office and coaching staff.

[launchingthrees]

 

On the other hand if they believe either or both can be relievers on a competitive major league team it is a critical failure to keep them in AAA behind Belisle.

There is no way I can know whether Duffey or Busenitz have the talent to be a good piece in a bullpen. I do know that the Twins bullpen has cost them more games than reasonable and that responsibility is on the shoulders of the front office and coaching staff.

 

Really? The bullpen has been good enough this year. The team has a bunch of issues but calling bullpen management by the FO a "critical failure" seems odd given how much they've improved. What would you consider a good bullpen ERA?

Edited June 13, 2018 by launchingthrees

[Mr. Brooks]

Really? The bullpen has been good enough this year. The team has a bunch of issues but calling bullpen management by the FO a "critical failure" seems odd given how much they've improved. What would you consider a good bullpen ERA?

Well it's currently 21st in baseball, by ERA.

Certainly a lot of room for improvement there, IMO.

[yarnivek1972]

Really? The bullpen has been good enough this year. The team has a bunch of issues but calling bullpen management by the FO a "critical failure" seems odd given how much they've improved. What would you consider a good bullpen ERA?

The Twins have allowed MLB worst 42% of inherited runners to score. Only the Tigers (who have played 5 more games) have more blown saves than the Twins 13.

 

Then there is the Twins abysmal 3-13 record in one run games.

 

All of these are signs of a BAD bullpen - that you are calling “good enough”. Good enough for what?

 

 

Actually, I’ll answer my own question. Good enough to result in a 29-34 record.

Edited June 13, 2018 by yarnivek1972

[caninatl04]

 

Seems like Twins will deal relievers here soon, and certainly at the deadline if they are not in it.

 

Belisle is insurance.

 

You deal Rodney and Belisle becomes an experrienced late-inning guy. Reed or Pressly gets hurt, you still have Belisle.

 

No one has to like this move, but it is about getting through the season should the worst, or some kind of trade/injury happen.

I appreciate your point, but I think AAA provides better insurance.

[jtkoupal]

We must be careful how much we criticize the front office. After all, they do know more than we do.

 

Let's also keep in mind that they have tried guys like Busenitz, Curtiss, and Duffey with suboptimal results to say the least.

 

I haven't been around the clubhouse, so I have no input on the kind of leadership he brings or the kind of person he is. However, if the front office thinks enough of him to bring him back, I'm sure there is a good reason. It's unlikely they would bring him back if they didn't have faith in him.

[caninatl04]

 

The Twins have allowed MLB worst 42% of inherited runners to score. Only the Tigers (who have played 5 more games) have more blown saves than the Twins 13.

Then there is the Twins abysmal 3-13 record in one run games.

All of these are signs of a BAD bullpen - that you are calling “good enough”. Good enough for what?


Actually, I’ll answer my own question. Good enough to result in a 29-34 record.

I am less willing to attribute the 1-run game record to the bullpen.  I attribute it more to a GOOD pitching staff, but an offense that scores 1 or 2 runs quite frequently.

[yarnivek1972]

I am less willing to attribute the 1-run game record to the bullpen. I attribute it more to a GOOD pitching staff, but an offense that scores 1 or 2 runs quite frequently.

Taken by itself, I would agree. Taken in conjunction with the other mentioned stats, it is an additional sign that the bullpen is bad.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Speaking of: The raccoon on the bank building and Belisle on a MLB roster. What do they have in common?

Neither belong where they are?

[snepp]

The pen in April was right there as the 2nd or 3rd worst in the league. Since then it has been much, much better.

[Platoon]

Neither belong where they are?

Bingo...... But now the raccoon is in the woods, and Belisle was already on the mound.

[launchingthrees]

 

The Twins have allowed MLB worst 42% of inherited runners to score. Only the Tigers (who have played 5 more games) have more blown saves than the Twins 13.

Then there is the Twins abysmal 3-13 record in one run games.

All of these are signs of a BAD bullpen - that you are calling “good enough”. Good enough for what?


Actually, I’ll answer my own question. Good enough to result in a 29-34 record.

 

What you are seeing as blowing 1 run leads I see as variance, statistical noise. This is a really good bullpen, overused, but really good. At least a lot better than the team we're chasing. If there's a problem with the bullpen moving forward it's because Molitor is about as advanced in his decision making as a 1980s college coach.

 

I would have already fired him for his bullpen management. Ask Addison Reed whether he regrets signing with the Twins. I guarantee Pressley wants out too.

Edited June 14, 2018 by launchingthrees

[USAFChief]

What you are seeing as blowing 1 run leads I see as variance, statistical noise. This is a really good bullpen, overused, but really good. At least a lot better than the team we're chasing. If there's a problem with the bullpen moving forward it's because Molitor is about as advanced in his decision making as a 1980s college coach.

 

I would have already fired him for his bullpen management. Ask Addison Reed whether he regrets signing with the Twins. I guarantee Pressley wants out too.

Maybe you have that backwards. Ask the Twins if they regret signing Addison Reed. He has had a pretty damaging couple weeks.

[launchingthrees]

 

Maybe you have that backwards. Ask the Twins if they regret signing Addison Reed. He has had a pretty damaging couple weeks.

 

Sure. That's possible. I just think it's a lot more likely that we had 2 elite relief pitchers that were Thibodeau'd and now they can't get anyone out. You can't be thrilled with their Usage % right? It's unheard of in the modern era. I'm almost certain that within the last couple weeks the FO told Molitor that he needed to change his usage. It was cringeworthy.

Edited June 14, 2018 by launchingthrees

[curt1965]

Molitor only trusts “veterans (old farts), and obviously can’t relate to younger players. This has been the MAIN criticism of him in his tenure with the Twins. I think it’s pretty obvious he cannot manage a major league pitching staff.

[h2oface]

I just threw up again tonight when I thought about the Belisle signing........

[Champuckett]

This means we are sellers and will patch together a lineup/bullpen using whatever we can find to make it through the rest of the season while players are traded away.  They did something similar last season and we were in a better position then, than we are now.

[Doctor Wu]

 

If they activate Mauer soon (he just started a rehab assignment for Rochester yesterday), this also means the only move they can really make is sending down LaMarre or Cave (barring another injury in the meantime). So gone is the CF platoon, and say hello to Robbie Grossman, exclusive 4th outfielder again.

That last sentence has given me a splitting headache!

[yarnivek1972]

Or, they could subtract a pitcher. Magill hasn’t pitched in 10 days now. They obviously have too many. Maybe that’s a great idea. DL Reed for 10 days now. Put Pressly on the DL when he gets back.

[Doctor Wu]

As baffling as this move seems, there is only one thing that the return of Belisle could mean: the second coming of Bartolo Colon to the Twin Cities!

[jkcarew]

I really don't have that strong of an option on whether...or how realistic it might be...that Belisle is in a position to help more than Duffey or Busenitz over the next month.  Although, I think it more likely that Molitor is simply more likely to actually USE Belisle than he would the other two.  So, I guess that would be the good part of this...if you want to call it that.

 

Mostly though, it's a frustrating move to me simply because it takes a 40-man roster that already seemed absurd...and makes it seem...well, absurder.  24 spots consumed by pitchers...at least 10 of which are not being considered...or apparently even that close to being considered, for the active roster...and of course that doesn't count the pitchers on the 25-man that the manager doesn't want to use.  Has to be some kind of a record.