General politics

[drjim]

 

The shut down tactic is a PR stunt.  The Republicans who have the white house and majorities in house and senate run the show, this is the Democrats only tactic.  To call it the Republicans fault is silly.  Win elections or allow the majority to legislate, or if those options don't work own the shutdown.  While it is true the Republicans have worked to avoid that only goes as far as the Democrats let it.  If they give in now Democrats will demand more, that's politics.  If you can win the PR game on this and play the politics out to the election that might work, but don't tell me you want an honest discussion if you want it every which way this time.  I'm sorry Republicans didn't cave but deal with reality they would be failing me and everyone that voted for them if they did.  If Democrats wanted to 10 of them could have worked something out, but they didn't because the PR game is more important.  It's an election year, if you let the PR game work the next shut down is on you.  If however Republican majorities see gains maybe these games end.

 

The problem is legislate what? What exactly are the Republicans trying to do that the Dems are blocking?

 

There are 3 main issues that need to be addressed:

1. Long term funding bills so government orgs (especially the military) can actually do some planning

2. Extending CHIP

3. Some sort of DACA/Immigration fix

 

This CR only covers #2, which is why there is a shut down. The Republicans are in power, they can put forth an immigration bill and there is not much the Dems can do about it. If they did that there would be no shutdown. Obviously the Republicans are divided on the issue at the moment or they would end the nonsense.

 

These 2-4 week CR punts are a joke. Make a decision and lets move on. They prefer to do nothing and blame Dems. And on and on it goes.

[jimmer]

Just a matter of time before the Republicans use the nuclear option like they have so much in Trumps term.

[drjim]

Just a matter of time before the Republicans use the nuclear option like they have so much in Trumps term.

I'm pro blowing up the filibuster. Nothing in the country has ever done more to stiffle progressive legislation.

 

Rs aren't going to do it for a 4 week CR. It's not like it's a "win" for them. They still need to make a decision on immigration one way or another.

[jimmer]

 

I'm pro blowing up the filibuster. Nothing in the country has ever done more to stiffle progressive legislation.

Rs aren't going to do it for a 4 week CR. It's not like it's a "win" for them. They still need to make a decision on immigration one way or another.

I mean for the overall situation, not a CR. When they finally pass the budget, it'll be with the nuclear option.

[Badsmerf]

It goes both ways Mike. The house passed an abomination of a bill, that they knew would be Next to impossible to pass the Senate. The shutdown is their fault. The win elections argument is valid here too... if you don't want to govern and compromise then win an outright majority. There has been months to get this figured out, and a democrats concerns haven't been heard at all.

 

This bipartisan immigration bill keeps getting broken down by pressure from the far right. Jeff flake, and other (sane) republicans were promised a daca bill for voting for the corporate tax cuts. Hasn't happened. Would you continue to give concessions to people that don't hold up their end of a deal? At what point do you stop?

 

Trump and the republicans are in a tough spot because of their big mouths. All of the blame went to Obama and democrats last time, and people aren't idiots. The Trump base doesn't care what he does, they will always, adamantly, and with vile hatred, blame democrats. This is a PR game. Seems to be about even at this point. The Schumer shutdown slogan is catchy. I'm not sure how I would spin it if I was the dems.

[drjim]

I mean for the overall situation, not a CR. When they finally pass the budget, it'll be with the nuclear option.

I wouldn't worry about it. Congress isn't going to pass anything meaningful beyond the 3 items listed, perhaps another tax cut. The don't have anything left in their agenda that people actually want.

 

It'll take another election before they will do the bi-partisan things that will actually make the country better off.

[TheLeviathan]

Republicans are openly stating that they have no clue what the President wants.

 

Shutdown blame starts and stops right there.

 

(And now Graham specifically blaming that little troll Stephen Miller)

[mikecgrimes]

 

It goes both ways Mike. 

 

I thought it was a Trump shutdown.  It begs the question was this shutdown a result of the ability to blame Trump or was it because Democrats are standing on principal?  Here the problem I don't care that the "government is shut down" at all.  I also don't care that other people do care.  Play politics with this non event all day.  I'd prefer a long term shutdown but that's just me dreaming.

[drjim]

 

I thought it was a Trump shutdown.  It begs the question was this shutdown a result of the ability to blame Trump or was it because Democrats are standing on principal?  Here the problem I don't care that the "government is shut down" at all.  I also don't care that other people do care.  Play politics with this non event all day.  I'd prefer a long term shutdown but that's just me dreaming.

 

Long term shutdown to what end?

[drjim]

I do assume the likely outcome us an agreement tonight for a short term extension with some vague assurances of a future immigration bill.

 

Then the fun can start up again in 3 weeks.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I thought it was a Trump shutdown.  It begs the question was this shutdown a result of the ability to blame Trump or was it because Democrats are standing on principal?  Here the problem I don't care that the "government is shut down" at all.  I also don't care that other people do care.  Play politics with this non event all day.  I'd prefer a long term shutdown but that's just me dreaming.

The party that deserves the blame for the shutdown is the one that shares your belief about not caring that the government is shutdown, obviously. 

[USAFChief]

I thought it was a Trump shutdown.  It begs the question was this shutdown a result of the ability to blame Trump or was it because Democrats are standing on principal?  Here the problem I don't care that the "government is shut down" at all.  I also don't care that other people do care.  Play politics with this non event all day.  I'd prefer a long term shutdown but that's just me dreaming.

Should you not then be thanking Senate Democrats, since you claim they have delivered precisely what you want...a govt shutdown?

 

Send a donation to the Democratic Party in thanks.

[Craig Arko]

[USAFChief]

7AAA5AE8-F398-4A29-B829-2F783CD6749E.jpeg

Let’s not.

[Mike Sixel]

The shut down tactic is a PR stunt. The Republicans who have the white house and majorities in house and senate run the show, this is the Democrats only tactic. To call it the Republicans fault is silly. Win elections or allow the majority to legislate, or if those options don't work own the shutdown. While it is true the Republicans have worked to avoid that only goes as far as the Democrats let it. If they give in now Democrats will demand more, that's politics. If you can win the PR game on this and play the politics out to the election that might work, but don't tell me you want an honest discussion if you want it every which way this time. I'm sorry Republicans didn't cave but deal with reality they would be failing me and everyone that voted for them if they did. If Democrats wanted to 10 of them could have worked something out, but they didn't because the PR game is more important. It's an election year, if you let the PR game work the next shut down is on you. If however Republican majorities see gains maybe these games end.

Remember when compromise was a good thing? I miss those days.

[Craig Arko]

Let’s not.

Bah, you can handle a 160/kph fastball.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Remember when compromise was a good thing? I miss those days.

 

Rhino.  

 

Or whatever the reverse would be.  Republicans are better at their slandering.

[mikecgrimes]

You do understand it used to be you would murder your political opponent right. Compromise is a media creation.

[Craig Arko]

You do understand it used to be you would murder your political opponent right. Compromise is a media creation.

You mean, if you were a Klingon.

[drjim]

You do understand it used to be you would murder your political opponent right. Compromise is a media creation.

This is true. "Compromise" usually means have the other side surrender to what I want.

 

Republicans don't need to compromise, they just need to make a decision in regards to immigration. Punting the choice 4 weeks at a time until the next election is a brutal way to run a country.

[ashbury]

You do understand it used to be you would murder your political opponent right.

The 2016 election revealed things about the electorate I never knew were so prevalent.

Compromise is a media creation.

Sam Rayburn and countless others before him would beg to differ.

[USAFChief]

Bah, you can handle a 160/kph fastball.

No actually, that’s what ended my baseball career...

Catching up to a college FB.

 

And I am NOT converting all my recipes to metric.

[ashbury]

And I am NOT converting all my recipes to metric.

You'll be fine. Two minutes and thirty seconds for Orville Redenbacher Microwave Popcorn is the same in Metric.

[jimmer]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/paul-ryan-collected-dollar500000-in-koch-contributions-days-after-house-passed-tax-law/ar-AAuWW6J

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

You do understand it used to be you would murder your political opponent right. Compromise is a media creation.

 

My god man.  Do you hear yourself?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm pro blowing up the filibuster.

I read that as "pro bowling" the filibuster. Sending it to Orlando a week before the Super Bowl? Or some kind of "Kingpin" reference?

[nicksaviking]

 

You do understand it used to be you would murder your political opponent right. Compromise is a media creation.

 

Is that a Putin quote? Or does that go back to the Bolsheviks?

 

Whew, just glad we're done pretending that the GOP isn't having it's strings pulled by Russia.

[drjim]

Is that a Putin quote? Or does that go back to the Bolsheviks?

 

Whew, just glad we're done pretending that the GOP isn't having it's strings pulled by Russia.

It's relatively well known American history.

[Mike Sixel]

 

It's relatively well known American history.

 

Not since the damn 1800s.....people don't kill their political oppponents anymore....the 50s-80s, the most prosperous time for every US citizen, that was the time of compromise. Then it started to wane in the 90s, and died this century.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

We have literally developed derogatory slang words for people are willing to listen to others.

 

That's our politics today in a nut shell.