Rosario

[kab21]

Rosario continues to remind me of Jacque Jones. He was toolsy but it was obvious that he wasn't a natural CF'er or even played LF defense that matched those tools (very similar to Rosario). He had similar plate discipline and power. He also made numerous WTF type plays. But he was a great option to have through his arb years.

Of course if Rosario could be traded at peak value then I am interested but I see a lukewarm market for the reasons that people state in this thread as wanting to trade him. He is a solid but not great hitter that plays alright(ish) LF defense with poor plate discipline. Other teams know that he is limited as far as upside also.

[Rosterman]

Hell yes! He will be worth more than he might ever be (remember the season the Twins should've traded Young?). What would help would be if the Twins actually got a looksee at Palka this September, too. Can Granite be a regular for a season or two?

[laloesch]

 

Rosario continues to remind me of Jacque Jones. He was toolsy but it was obvious that he wasn't a natural CF'er or even played LF defense that matched those tools (very similar to Rosario). He had similar plate discipline and power. He also made numerous WTF type plays. But he was a great option to have through his arb years.

Of course if Rosario could be traded at peak value then I am interested but I see a lukewarm market for the reasons that people state in this thread as wanting to trade him. He is a solid but not great hitter that plays alright(ish) LF defense with poor plate discipline. Other teams know that he is limited as far as upside also.

 

Rosario has a much better arm than Jones.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

Is this hyperbolic overreaction number 724 or 725?

I've lost count.

On the bright side though, my watch is working perfectly.

This made me laugh out loud. Thanks, I needed that. Remember, we love you DaveW.

[terrydactyls]

In all the above posts about our pitching possibilities for 2018, no one has mentioned the current pitcher who has been (arguably) the Twins' best over the last month. Is there ageism running rampant among TD posters? I think that Colon has earned at least an invitation to spring training if not a one-year contract. I have no idea how he's doing it, but he keeps giving the Twins opportunities to win games.

[Mike Sixel]

 

In all the above posts about our pitching possibilities for 2018, no one has mentioned the current pitcher who has been (arguably) the Twins' best over the last month. Is there ageism running rampant among TD posters? I think that Colon has earned at least an invitation to spring training if not a one-year contract. I have no idea how he's doing it, but he keeps giving the Twins opportunities to win games.

 

He's not signed. He'll be a FA. Personally, it seems unlikely a 45 yo can keep this up, so I'm not sure I'd bet on him. But, it is a fair question. It's not ageism at all, it's reality and the fact he's not signed here.

[Twinsbar107]

Weren't GM's asking specifically about Rosario, at the deadline. I feel like that his name was brought up several times. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[gunnarthor]

 

Weren't GM's asking specifically about Rosario, at the deadline. I feel like that his name was brought up several times. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe I read that in an interview with Lavine.

 

I think the Twins will trade someone this offseason but I'm not sure who.  I can see arguments for moving any of Dozier/Rosario/Kepler/Gordon/Wade/Granite. 

[IBaseballTwins]

2015 and 2016 PA 788 27 BB

 

2017 PA 455  30 BB

 

Still room for improvement, but he is getting better, I do not think you can give up on a player his age if he is still improving, and I am willing to say he will continue to see more pitches, take more walks, and possibly become a very good hitter.  His advanced stats show that he is seeing more pitches this year as well.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Rosario has a much better arm than Jones.

He's also a better hitter than Jones adjusted for OPS+. Not by a lot but Rosario is also 25 years old. Jones had his only dominant season at age 27.

 

And we shouldn't ignore Jones' painful L/R splits whereas Rosario's splits are minimal, especially for LHB.

[clone52]

 

How? They are going to outbid the other teams for one of hte three good FAs? They will suddenly start trading prospects? How will the pitching get fixed?

 

As for Rosario......I've fluctuated back and forth on him over the years. He always seemed like a natural hitter to me, but until this year he's shown no patience. He's a legit MLB player, the question is, is he more valuable to the Twins as a player here, or in acquiring other player(s). Without knowing the offers, I can't answer that. But, if they could get 2 minor league pitchers less than 2 years away that they believe in, I'd be tempted....

 

Would you trade Fernando Romero and Kohl Stewart for Eddie Rosiaro?  Thats basically what you say you'd be tempted to do.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Would you trade Fernando Romero and Kohl Stewart for Eddie Rosiaro?  Thats basically what you say you'd be tempted to do.

 

It really depends on what the rest of my system looked like, and where I was in my rebuild. I threw it out as what I'd be willing to trade Eddie for.

 

It's funny, but basically whenever people post about making trades, people point out how it just can't be done. yet, 4 AL teams managed to make trades just a few days ago to supposedly improve themselves. And, others made trades at the deadline. And, others made trades in the off season. I prefer to think about how things might get done, rather than think about how things can't get done. 

[clone52]

 

Exactly. Trade from genuine surplus and don't leave a hole to (potentially) fill another one. Aaron Hicks and Denard Span should serve as constant reminders.

 

Honestly, I consider OF to be a surplus area for the Twins.  You could easily go with an OF of Buxton, Kepler, Grossman and Granite and be just fine.

 

That said, I don't think Rosario would bring back what people think he would bring back, so its kind of a moot point.

 

I don't know what pitchers would be available for trade, but lets say the A's still had Sonny Gray.  Would you trade Rosario, Gonsalves and Travis Blankenhorn for Sonny Gray?  Or lets say Rosario, Gordon and Felix Jorge?  I think that is how Rosario would have to be used in a trade to get a good pitcher.  For the right pitcher, that would probably be worth it.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Honestly, I consider OF to be a surplus area for the Twins.  You could easily go with an OF of Buxton, Kepler, Grossman and Granite and be just fine.

 

That said, I don't think Rosario would bring back what people think he would bring back, so its kind of a moot point.

 

I don't know what pitchers would be available for trade, but lets say the A's still had Sonny Gray.  Would you trade Rosario, Gonsalves and Travis Blankenhorn for Sonny Gray?  Or lets say Rosario, Gordon and Felix Jorge?  I think that is how Rosario would have to be used in a trade to get a good pitcher.  For the right pitcher, that would probably be worth it.

 

I agree with this.

[gunnarthor]

Who wants Rosario? A team trading for him would probably be a team in or near contention because Rosario isn't an elite player, just a good one. So a rebuilding team like the Phillies (for instance) wouldn't want him. But a rebuilding team like the Phillies might want to make a deal for guys with more years of control - Gordon, Gonsalves, Romero, Granite, Wade etc. 

 

On the other hand, since the second wildcard, a lot of teams can probably think of themselves "at or near contention." Atlanta has a crap ton of exciting young talent and prospects. Would they want to replace Kemp and Markakis with uberprospect Acuna and Rosario to go with Inciarte in center?  (Man, Atlanta ain't far away). Rosario's control time would certainly be in their upcoming window.

[DaveW]

 

In all the above posts about our pitching possibilities for 2018, no one has mentioned the current pitcher who has been (arguably) the Twins' best over the last month. Is there ageism running rampant among TD posters? I think that Colon has earned at least an invitation to spring training if not a one-year contract. I have no idea how he's doing it, but he keeps giving the Twins opportunities to win games.

I like Bartolo...a lot. I do think he is pitching above his head a bit, but I can't argue with the results at all.

But you need more than just him, IMO you can't really count on him being more than a #5 heading into 2018, could he be better? Sure, but you don't want to set yourself up relying on Colon being a #3/#4.

 

[DaveW]

 

Who wants Rosario? A team trading for him would probably be a team in or near contention because Rosario isn't an elite player, just a good one. So a rebuilding team like the Phillies (for instance) wouldn't want him. But a rebuilding team like the Phillies might want to make a deal for guys with more years of control - Gordon, Gonsalves, Romero, Granite, Wade etc. 

 

On the other hand, since the second wildcard, a lot of teams can probably think of themselves "at or near contention." Atlanta has a crap ton of exciting young talent and prospects. Would they want to replace Kemp and Markakis with uberprospect Acuna and Rosario to go with Inciarte in center?  (Man, Atlanta ain't far away). Rosario's control time would certainly be in their upcoming window.

I'd target teams like the Mets, Braves etc

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Query: who has more trade value, Rosario or Kepler? Who is the better player? Who has more upside? Who is more likely to reach their ceiling? Who would you rather have going forward? Who would other teams rather have?

I believe that Kepler's inability to hit LH pitching is the final straw. His numbers against LH pitching are worse this year than ever. While Rosario has a year less before FA, I think I'd take him before Kepler, as I believe most GMs would.

 

I also think there will be fewer OF misadventures as he matures.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I believe that Kepler's inability to hit LH pitching is the final straw. His numbers against LH pitching are worse this year than ever. While Rosario has a year less before FA, I think I'd take him before Kepler, as I believe most GMs would.

 

I also think there will be fewer OF misadventures as he matures.

 

Rosario has been a professional OF for 7 years now? Maybe 6? How long before he matures as a fielder? I agree, it's certainly possible, but he's 25 and has been doing this since HS. I have no idea, but is it easier to mature as a fielder or hitter? I'd think fielder, and that would come sooner, but I literally have no idea. I hope you are right, because he could be quite good if he could mature as a fielder.

[jimbo92107]

 

Don't care how much talent this guy has, his lack of patience and approach at the plate is terrible.

Needs to be the first guy in the trading block this off season to get more pitching.

Delmon Young version 2.0

Totally disagree. Delmon Young? Completely different personalities. Young was distant, disengaged from the team, the public, and the game. He was a selfish player that sometimes clearly dogged it in the outfield, while at the plate he was simply trying to hit a home run all the time. 

 

In stark contrast, Eddie Rosario is a gamer of Bryce Harper intensity, if not quite that magnitude. Eddie's desire to win sometimes gets him into trouble, but always it is worth watching. Some players will take the extra base on a single if they see the outfielder playing it a little casual. Eddie will take that base, then he's looking for their next mistake, so he can take third. Eddie's the only Twin I have ever seen induce a balk out of a left-handed reliever by dancing 20 feet down the line. You need a wheelbarrow for cajones like that. 

 

Yes, his impulsive play sometimes produces embarrassing errors, but he is always trying to win, which I think is why Paul Molitor loves the guy. Plus, Rosario is getting more selective at the plate. Fewer swings waaay outside or above his head. I noticed his somewhat improved plate discipline correlated nicely with his second half surge in offense. 

 

It's tempting to criticize a young player that displays boldness and imagination in his play. They will certainly make mistakes, but more often, with talent and technique, their opportunism will benefit the team. Getting rid of Rosario would be a terrible mistake for a couple reasons. First, Rosario and other players would take it as punishment for individual effort beyond the norm. Second, I firmly believe that with more experience Eddie Rosario is going to be an All Star. His bad throws are a matter of further practice on his footwork. His plate discipline will continue to improve, but he's never going to eke out walks like Grossman. Rosie is all offense; he looks to strike a blow for his team every moment he's on the field. Not really like Delmon Young at all. 

[clone52]

 

Well.......you start by making good deals to bring in talent.  For example Garcia for Enns and Littell (who's 19-1 in A/AA fyi).  You continue developing young talent (Slegers, Gonsalves, Romero & Jorge) and also with a bit of luck instead of the injury bug (see Lewis Thorpe) you keep developing that talent and start calling those guys up and go from there.   Its not always necessary to trade away all the good players you don't like for pitching.  

 

The Garcia trade was nice, but Enns and Littell were probably not going to be retained on the Yankee's 40 man roster next year, so they likely were going to lose them both for nothing.

[Darius]

This is a prett entertaining (comical, possibly) read.

 

It could be argued that he was the catalyst that pulled this team back into the race, as much as some of the other players tried to pack it in at the time.

 

I may not be recalling correctly, but it seems to me that there were a couple of weeks where he had a hand in seemingly every run that was scored. The team had a great stretch on his back, then Polanco, Buxton, Mauer, Dozier, etc kind of followed suit. I seem to remember a bunch of power, improved discipline, and numerous hits in the 7-9th innings when desperately needed.

 

After what he's shown the past few months, id feel pretty comfortable with him in that situation, and wouldn't be the he comes through there the majority of the time.

 

Did people expect him to hit like Mike Trout from here on out?

 

Very frustrating AB, but you can't get them all (see batting averages, BABIP, etc...that's what those mean). GIDPs happen when theres a guy on first. He's arguably been the best and most consistent hitter on the team this year.

 

Let me guess....trade him and play Zach Granite?

[bird]

 

In all the above posts about our pitching possibilities for 2018, no one has mentioned the current pitcher who has been (arguably) the Twins' best over the last month. Is there ageism running rampant among TD posters? I think that Colon has earned at least an invitation to spring training if not a one-year contract. I have no idea how he's doing it, but he keeps giving the Twins opportunities to win games

 

I forgot about him, but it wasn't ageism. I also forgot to mention Trevor May. Probably my age.

[bird]

 

Honestly, I consider OF to be a surplus area for the Twins.  You could easily go with an OF of Buxton, Kepler, Grossman and Granite and be just fine.

 

That said, I don't think Rosario would bring back what people think he would bring back, so its kind of a moot point.

 

I don't know what pitchers would be available for trade, but lets say the A's still had Sonny Gray.  Would you trade Rosario, Gonsalves and Travis Blankenhorn for Sonny Gray?  Or lets say Rosario, Gordon and Felix Jorge?  I think that is how Rosario would have to be used in a trade to get a good pitcher.  For the right pitcher, that would probably be worth it.

 

 

Yeah, we're probably defining "surplus" differently. If I was GM, we'd have a philosophical and strategic discipline in place that would guide decision-making. One of the components would be to define "surplus" as more than one asset available for a position of equal quality in 2018. I personally don't think Granite, Palka, Grossman, or anyone else would be regarded by the team as equal in quality to Rosario. Under my adept management, Rosario would not be a proactive trade candidate and would go only if an exception made sense by virtue of someone's stupid offer. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Honestly, I consider OF to be a surplus area for the Twins.  You could easily go with an OF of Buxton, Kepler, Grossman and Granite and be just fine.

 

That said, I don't think Rosario would bring back what people think he would bring back, so its kind of a moot point.

 

I don't know what pitchers would be available for trade, but lets say the A's still had Sonny Gray.  Would you trade Rosario, Gonsalves and Travis Blankenhorn for Sonny Gray?  Or lets say Rosario, Gordon and Felix Jorge?  I think that is how Rosario would have to be used in a trade to get a good pitcher.  For the right pitcher, that would probably be worth it.

No one can be sure, but iirc based on what Oakland received, it feels like Rosario and Gonsalves would have gotten Sonny Gray, or even been too much to offer. You can't trade a key piece in the middle of a pennant race, however.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

It's funny, but basically whenever people post about making trades, people point out how it just can't be done. yet, 4 AL teams managed to make trades just a few days ago to supposedly improve themselves. And, others made trades at the deadline. And, others made trades in the off season. I prefer to think about how things might get done, rather than think about how things can't get done. 

This. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Rosario has almost doubled his walk rate this year, cut his K rate by about 30%, and posted a career high isolated power. And the sum total of that is a 110 wRC+. Definitely usable / functional but probably nothing to get too excited about long term. Probably nothing worth trading though either...

[gocgo]

Delmon's defense stunk and Eddie's arm is pretty darn good.  Coupled with that the fact that Rosario is having a pretty good year and seems to be on the upswing.  He also seems to be getting along pretty well with his teammates....OK, he's nothing like Delmon Young.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Rosario has almost doubled his walk rate this year, cut his K rate by about 30%, and posted a career high isolated power. And the sum total of that is a 110 wRC+. Definitely usable / functional but probably nothing to get too excited about long term. Probably nothing worth trading though either...

 

You cannot emphasize this enough in my opinion. His peripherals are all trending in the right direction. I'm not expecting him to be Mauer at the plate, but with his contact skills, he could be a very good hitter while playing above average OF defense.

 

I don't get the original post here. Yeah, he didn't do well in one at bat. The problem is that every player will have an at bat they wish they could have back. I'm far more interested in his trends, and right now they are very positive.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Rosario has almost doubled his walk rate this year, cut his K rate by about 30%, and posted a career high isolated power. And the sum total of that is a 110 wRC+. Definitely usable / functional but probably nothing to get too excited about long term. Probably nothing worth trading though either...

He's likely the kind of complementary player that good teams need to win. And that's okay, we're not banking the future on the guy. If Sano and Buxton round out to who we expect them to be, Rosario is a damned fine 6/7 hitter on a good team.