Time to DFA Molitor?

[Mike Sixel]

Other than overworking, I think he's done a very good job with the bullpen this year. He's mostly used his good RPs in games they could win, and his bad RPs in blowout losses. He's also used Kintzler correctly as the closer, and kept his slightly better stuff players in the set up roles.

 

He has, imo, over worked Rogers and Duffey some. How much that is on him, and how much that is on his options, I don't know.

 

I do think he really messed up putting Buxton in the lead off spot to start the year...

[drjim]

 

Other than overworking, I think he's done a very good job with the bullpen this year. He's mostly used his good RPs in games they could win, and his bad RPs in blowout losses. He's also used Kintzler correctly as the closer, and kept his slightly better stuff players in the set up roles.

 

He has, imo, over worked Rogers and Duffey some. How much that is on him, and how much that is on his options, I don't know.

 

I do think he really messed up putting Buxton in the lead off spot to start the year...

 

I'm not even sure he has overworked Rogers and Duffey all that much by games and innings. Perhaps put them in too many higher stress/leverage situations, but considering the alternatives, not sure I blame him.

[bighat]

 

I would argue he made a bad situation worse with his (mis)management of his pitching.

 

He seems to me always in reactive mode, rather than proactive.  Wait till the damage is done, then make the resigned, grim march to the mound.  Little to no regard for L/R platoon advantages/weaknesses.  

 

Add in some odd lineup decisions, poor team fundamentals with no apparent improvement (or discipline for players who can't/won't improve), and occasional inexcusable flubs (double switch in LA the most recent) and I think there's opportunity for improvement.

 

I only "liked" this post because there's no "LOVE" option. Well said, agree 100%.

[Vanimal46]

Things he's improved on this year:

- Giving young players a longer leash 

- Bullpen management 

- Calling fewer bunt plays

 

Things that have not improved:

- Fundamentals/discipline

- Strategic in-game decisions

- Lineup construction - 

- Catering to veterans

Molitor is 60 years old. Does he want to come back? Even if he does, it's probably time to move on either way. 

[Thrylos]

This team needs a manager who comes from a winning tradition, does not accept losing and lights a fire underneath his players to win.

 

Gardenhire did not do that.

Molitor does not do that.

 

Too much laughing and fun in the Twins' dugout, as fun as I am concerned, while the team lost 7 out of 10 and fell 8 games behind.  Need someone who as a leader will not accept that while losing.

 

Not sure who that is, but Molitor is not.

[rghrbek]

 

Other than overworking, I think he's done a very good job with the bullpen this year. He's mostly used his good RPs in games they could win, and his bad RPs in blowout losses. He's also used Kintzler correctly as the closer, and kept his slightly better stuff players in the set up roles.

 

He has, imo, over worked Rogers and Duffey some. How much that is on him, and how much that is on his options, I don't know.

 

I do think he really messed up putting Buxton in the lead off spot to start the year...

Did he put Buck in the leadoff spot? I thought he put him batting 3rd (which to me was even worse).  I cannot remember for sure.

 

I am not a Molly fan.  But I also think he has slightly improved.  I still think I'd rather try someone else, outside of the organization.

 

We always hear about Doug Mientkiewicz on these posts.  People fondly remember him.  I fondly remember his glove.  That's about it.  He was a hot head, and a real pot stirrer in the clubhouse, if my memory serves me correctly.  Especially when Morneau came up.  I prefer we go outside the organization, rather than hire Dougy...if it gets to that.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Did he put Buck in the leadoff spot? I thought he put him batting 3rd (which to me was even worse).  I cannot remember for sure.

 

I am not a Molly fan.  But I also think he has slightly improved.  I still think I'd rather try someone else, outside of the organization.

 

We always hear about Doug Mientkiewicz on these posts.  People fondly remember him.  I fondly remember his glove.  That's about it.  He was a hot head, and a real pot stirrer in the clubhouse, if my memory serves me correctly.  Especially when Morneau came up.  I prefer we go outside the organization, rather than hire Dougy...if it gets to that.

 

ah, maybe it was 3rd. Either way, not ideal imo.

[Vanimal46]

 

Did he put Buck in the leadoff spot? I thought he put him batting 3rd (which to me was even worse).  I cannot remember for sure.

 

I am not a Molly fan.  But I also think he has slightly improved.  I still think I'd rather try someone else, outside of the organization.

 

We always hear about Doug Mientkiewicz on these posts.  People fondly remember him.  I fondly remember his glove.  That's about it.  He was a hot head, and a real pot stirrer in the clubhouse, if my memory serves me correctly.  Especially when Morneau came up.  I prefer we go outside the organization, rather than hire Dougy...if it gets to that.

 

I agree they should look outside of the organization for their next manager hire. How quickly we forget last year's "total system failure" and some want an internal promotion. 

[Rosterman]

I argue that he was worrying about winning more than playing players. First off, doesn't know the players enough to build a consistent lineup. Second, how many times if your best pitcher on the mound and one or two of your better players is substituted out for someone else. If you are going to win, you have to make sure that Santana gets the win those 3-4 times that he should've but didn't because of low offense.

 

Pitching staff. I seriously thought it looked better this year than last, at one point. And last hear thought we had a staff that would take us into the 7th, especially after a good spring training. But that went to heck like it did this year. And he has been given a bushel basket of relief arms. Think about it. How many pitchers have gone thru the turmstyles between Minnesota and Rochester and, somehow, a decent bullpen ahs yet to materialize. Who are the long men. Who sets ups? Who is the secondary closer? Do we have someone who can get a grounder (who is not the closer) a strikeout (anyone), a surefire fly ball out. The bullpen is made up of role players - 7 to 8 guys - who are so specialized to do more than eat an inning. Of course, having a rotation get you only 5+ innings can wear you out. But you also have a bullpen - 7 to 8 guys - who shouldn't be in the bullpen if you can't use them anytime in most any situation. Quit using the same players over and over. If you are playing to win, cringe when you relief pitcher has an 8.00 ERA and you are forced to bring him into any situation, elt alone on the plane ride to the next town you are playing.

 

There were some interesting coaching moves (Rowson and Pickler) to ho with the hold-overs, none of whom seems to be as tight with Paul (would he take any of them to another job if he got one). The big change in the minors was Eckstein. So we have yet to see any major turnover in the direction of coaching for this organization by the new front office powers-to-be. Maybe it will happen this off-season, although someone explain the winnings in the minors this year!

[Squirrel]

 

I'd keep Molitor around.

I'd keep him around, maybe in the same capacity they kept TK around, if he wants a role with the Twins, but I think they need to move on from him as manager.

[yarnivek1972]

I think Jeff Pickler is the guy next year. It might even have been a compromise upon Falvey's hire. He couldn't pick his own guy with Molitor under contract, but he could bring his own guy into the fold.

Pickler has no experience as a manager and his only experience as a coach is this year and one year as an assistant at Arizona State. He just isn't qualified to be a MLB manager.

 

I think Molitor gets let go as soon as the minor league seasons end and is replaced by Dougie baseball.

[bird]

 

I would expend a lot more energy getting a new bullpen.

 

 

Multi-task please. 

[drjim]

 

This team needs a manager who comes from a winning tradition, does not accept losing and lights a fire underneath his players to win.

 

Gardenhire did not do that.

Molitor does not do that.

 

Too much laughing and fun in the Twins' dugout, as fun as I am concerned, while the team lost 7 out of 10 and fell 8 games behind.  Need someone who as a leader will not accept that while losing.

 

Not sure who that is, but Molitor is not.

 

Perhaps we need a manager better at spouting off meaningless cliches.

[drjim]

 

I argue that he was worrying about winning more than playing players. First off, doesn't know the players enough to build a consistent lineup. Second, how many times if your best pitcher on the mound and one or two of your better players is substituted out for someone else. If you are going to win, you have to make sure that Santana gets the win those 3-4 times that he should've but didn't because of low offense.

 

Pitching staff. I seriously thought it looked better this year than last, at one point. And last hear thought we had a staff that would take us into the 7th, especially after a good spring training. But that went to heck like it did this year. And he has been given a bushel basket of relief arms. Think about it. How many pitchers have gone thru the turmstyles between Minnesota and Rochester and, somehow, a decent bullpen ahs yet to materialize. Who are the long men. Who sets ups? Who is the secondary closer? Do we have someone who can get a grounder (who is not the closer) a strikeout (anyone), a surefire fly ball out. The bullpen is made up of role players - 7 to 8 guys - who are so specialized to do more than eat an inning. Of course, having a rotation get you only 5+ innings can wear you out. But you also have a bullpen - 7 to 8 guys - who shouldn't be in the bullpen if you can't use them anytime in most any situation. Quit using the same players over and over. If you are playing to win, cringe when you relief pitcher has an 8.00 ERA and you are forced to bring him into any situation, elt alone on the plane ride to the next town you are playing.

 

There were some interesting coaching moves (Rowson and Pickler) to ho with the hold-overs, none of whom seems to be as tight with Paul (would he take any of them to another job if he got one). The big change in the minors was Eckstein. So we have yet to see any major turnover in the direction of coaching for this organization by the new front office powers-to-be. Maybe it will happen this off-season, although someone explain the winnings in the minors this year!

 

So now the complaint is that Molitor was worrying too much about winning? Perish the thought...

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Molitor should get promoted to the FO at the minor league season's end, and bring up the Eye Chart or Jake Mauer to finish out the season. Do a thorough search as soon as possible including Dougie and Jake in the interview process.

[wsnydes]

 

Of course you can. My position is it doesn't matter who the manager is if they don't improve the bullpen.

 

I generally think most of the criticisms of Molitor would be rendered moot if he had a better bullpen. In fact, going even further, I think overall Molitor did a great job with the talent he was given. I don't especially care if they get a new manager or not, don't think it will make much of a difference.

Generally speaking, I tend to agree that the level of talent a manager is given "the better" they are.  Players are always the ones that decide the game - they're the ones on the field making or not making plays.  However, how a manager uses the talent he does have and how he gets the most out of said talent is another thing.  Good managers/coaches know how to utilize what they have by putting them, and even those less talented, in a position to succeed.  I don't believe that Molitor does this.  Easy examples of this are Buxton starting the season hitting 3rd and Granite continuing to hit out of the 2 hole.  Escobar hitting cleanup?  As Chief pointed out, his platoon usage or lack thereof is another easy place to pick at.

 

There are areas where he has improved this season, but I still don't think that he's got a great feel for the game from the managerial side.

 

I don't think an in-season removal makes a ton of sense, but I wouldn't be against it either.  Let him finish out his contract and then look outside the organization for a replacement.  If he wants to stay on as an adviser or special instructor, that is fine with me.  I do think he's got a wealth of knowledge to pass along, but I don't feel that he's the right fit for a managerial job.

[NDTimIrish]

I think this board is giving way to much credit for how much a manager is worth in terms of wins. At absolute most it's give or take 2 wins over the course of a season. Unless you're Gardy and insist on having 3 catchers at all times and you want to start Jason Bartlett in center field. Personally, I'd just prefer a manager I like and Paul is nothing if not amiable. 

[bird]

 

I think this board is giving way to much credit for how much a manager is worth in terms of wins. At absolute most it's give or take 2 wins over the course of a season. Unless you're Gardy and insist on having 3 catchers at all times and you want to start Jason Bartlett in center field. Personally, I'd just prefer a manager I like and Paul is nothing if not amiable. 

 

As a matter of fact he's downright lovable. Right, Jimmy?

[Doomtints]

 

I think this board is giving way to much credit for how much a manager is worth in terms of wins. At absolute most it's give or take 2 wins over the course of a season.

 

Disagree.

 

Hitters have split tendencies. How do you know who to play? Who to pinch hit? Wrong decision = outs.

 

Defense is important to close out ballgames. When do you make the change? Wrong decision = giving up runs.

 

Knowing to switch a pitcher before the meltdown occurs, and to whom, is incredibly important. Wrong decision = giving up multiple runs.

 

When do you give the signal to bunt?  To steal?  To shift? Wrong decisions = fewer baserunners on offense, more on defense.

How do you keep tired players motivated come September?  How do you communicate bad news?  When do you know to suggest an adjustment at the plate?  Can you recognize when a pitcher is tipping? Wrong decisions = fewer hits, more run allowed.

The manager is everything and can factor into 50-100 points on the winning percentage. 

Ask the Cubs or Indians what they think about the importance of managers.

[Kwak]

 

Did he put Buck in the leadoff spot? I thought he put him batting 3rd (which to me was even worse).  I cannot remember for sure.

 

I am not a Molly fan.  But I also think he has slightly improved.  I still think I'd rather try someone else, outside of the organization.

 

We always hear about Doug Mientkiewicz on these posts.  People fondly remember him.  I fondly remember his glove.  That's about it.  He was a hot head, and a real pot stirrer in the clubhouse, if my memory serves me correctly.  Especially when Morneau came up.  I prefer we go outside the organization, rather than hire Dougy...if it gets to that.

ABSOLUTELY!  It would be a mistake to continue the "Twins fraternity" with respect to coaches, managers, scouts, etc.  Molitor "over-managed" to try to gain every possible "edge" in order to win now--as if his managerial career hinged on this season's W/L record.  Did (does) it?  We were told that this is a rebuilding team (and season) with a need for the new FO to assess who/what/why is in the organization--yet over 30 veterans galore to were added?  Mixed message? Fake news? What gives?

 

Molitor can hold his head up that he twice had bad teams "over perform".  Allow him to decide to finish the season if he chooses--or go right now--but inform him this is his last season as manager.  There will be a position next year that needs to be filled:  Farewell Tour Director.  Give that job to Molitor.

[Shaitan]

 

This team needs a manager who comes from a winning tradition, does not accept losing and lights a fire underneath his players to win.

 

Gardenhire did not do that.

Molitor does not do that.

 

Too much laughing and fun in the Twins' dugout, as fun as I am concerned, while the team lost 7 out of 10 and fell 8 games behind.  Need someone who as a leader will not accept that while losing.

 

Not sure who that is, but Molitor is not.

I think the military-style approach barely works in a 16 game NFL season. I can't imagine anyone wanting to play 162 games in that environment.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

Disagree.

 

Hitters have split tendencies. How do you know who to play? Who to pinch hit? Wrong decision = outs.

 

Defense is important to close out ballgames. When do you make the change? Wrong decision = giving up runs.

 

Knowing to switch a pitcher before the meltdown occurs, and to whom, is incredibly important. Wrong decision = giving up multiple runs.

 

When do you give the signal to bunt?  To steal?  To shift? Wrong decisions = fewer baserunners on offense, more on defense.

How do you keep tired players motivated come September?  How do you communicate bad news?  When do you know to suggest an adjustment at the plate?  Can you recognize when a pitcher is tipping? Wrong decisions = fewer hits, more run allowed.

The manager is everything and can factor into 50-100 points on the winning percentage. 

Ask the Cubs or Indians what they think about the importance of managers.

if managers weren't important, why have one? let alone a backup to take their place when the manager gets tossed from a game.

[beckmt]

 

I'd honestly just fire Molitor now, it doesn't do anyone any good to have a lame duck manager.

Gives him time to start the job hunt early, and allows the Twins a chance to try someone else out internally (Jake Mauer?)

 

Jake Mauer will never be the manager while Joe is on the team.  Fair or not that is my opinion.  I do feel he is the best internal choice. 

[beckmt]

 

I'd advise following other teams as closely as you do the Twins. It's all basically the same. And I'd even say the specific examples that have been hammered on during the season weren't even all that egregious. Maybe one or two. The bigger picture of taking the dumpster fire bullpen he was working with and managing to win as many games as they did is a much bigger mark for the good than a few specific negatives.

 

Obviously there is no resolving this specific disagreement, I'm just confident that the managing of a bullpen is generally as good as the talent to work with. If the front office actually brings in some bullpen talent this offseason, whoever manages next year is going to look better.

I respectfully disagree.  Any manager who leaves a lefty in to face Rajia Davis, who is a lefty mauler, and cannot smell a rightly does not manage my ballclub.  And these have been his stats since he has been in the league.

[beckmt]

 

Pickler has no experience as a manager and his only experience as a coach is this year and one year as an assistant at Arizona State. He just isn't qualified to be a MLB manager.

I think Molitor gets let go as soon as the minor league seasons end and is replaced by Dougie baseball.

From what I have heard Jake Mauer is considered to be the best of the Twins minor league managers. He seems to win no matter how good or bad the talent is.  However because of his brother, he cannot be the next Twins manager.  Time to go outside the organization. 

[drjim]

 

I respectfully disagree.  Any manager who leaves a lefty in to face Rajia Davis, who is a lefty mauler, and cannot smell a rightly does not manage my ballclub.  And these have been his stats since he has been in the league.

 

I wouldn't say Molitor is flawless, but I also don't ding him (much) for using his best reliever in that situation, even with the bad splits.

[Mr. Brooks]

Disagree.

 

Hitters have split tendencies. How do you know who to play? Who to pinch hit? Wrong decision = outs.

 

Defense is important to close out ballgames. When do you make the change? Wrong decision = giving up runs.

 

Knowing to switch a pitcher before the meltdown occurs, and to whom, is incredibly important. Wrong decision = giving up multiple runs.

 

When do you give the signal to bunt? To steal? To shift? Wrong decisions = fewer baserunners on offense, more on defense.

 

How do you keep tired players motivated come September? How do you communicate bad news? When do you know to suggest an adjustment at the plate? Can you recognize when a pitcher is tipping? Wrong decisions = fewer hits, more run allowed.

 

The manager is everything and can factor into 50-100 points on the winning percentage.

 

Ask the Cubs or Indians what they think about the importance of managers.

If a manager could be worth 8 to 16 wins per season, shouldn't we expect the top managers to make upwards of $50 million per season?

Let's say we split the difference and call it 12.

What would a 12 WAR/ Year player go for on the open market?

 

I tend to agree that mlb managers are a little under rated, but the fact that none of them make even close to that kind of money leads me to believe it's not by nearly as much as you suggest.

[Mr. Brooks]

Jake Mauer will never be the manager while Joe is on the team. Fair or not that is my opinion. I do feel he is the best internal choice.

What would the reason be for that?

[Mr. Brooks]

So I was pretty critical of Molitor last year.

I do have to say I've seen quite a bit of improvement from him this year.

That said, I still think he goes.

Not because he's not good enough, necessarily.

I just fundamentally think that Falvey and Levine ought to be able to pick their own guy.

[wsnydes]

 

If a manager could be worth 8 to 16 wins per season, shouldn't we expect the top managers to make upwards of $50 million per season?
Let's say we split the difference and call it 12.
What would a 12 WAR/ Year player go for on the open market?

I tend to agree that mlb managers are a little under rated, but the fact that none of them make even close to that kind of money leads me to believe it's not by nearly as much as you suggest.

This seems like a flawed exercise, but I get what you're trying to do and you make an interesting point.  Nobody pays to go see a manager.  Part of a player's salary is based on what a team can recoup through jersey sales and such.  Players are also the ones actually on the field making the plays.

 

That being said, the hours that coaches put in is not really balanced out very well considering the amount of cash MLB brings in.  They probably should earn more than they do.