Article: The Joe Mauer Quagmire

[Mr. Brooks]

I admire Cody's writing but I've watched Joe's walk off 5 straight times this morning and it still gives me goosebumps. No matter your Mauer POV, if that hit and his and his teammates reaction doesn't get you, I'm not sure what it's all about.

Yeah, I guess now the only question is which Twin gets thrown at in retaliation for "showing up" the opposing pitcher?

My guess is Sano.

[jokin]

Good. Let's get Porcello thrown out of the game early. It's about the only chance the Twins have to win today with Tepesch on the mound.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yeah, I guess now the only question is which Twin gets thrown at in retaliation for "showing up" the opposing pitcher?
My guess is Sano.

 

For reasons no rational brain can figure out.....walk-offs are allowed to be a mosh pit of exuberance.  But only this.

 

http://thestagnantfilipino.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Stupidity-And-Beyond.jpg

Edited May 6, 2017 by TheLeviathan

[jimmer]

I've never seen anyone beaned for being celebratory for a walk off HR.  Seems like very team does what the Twins did last night when there's a walk off HR.  Sometimes even for a game winning single.

[Heezy1323]

I have seen a couple posters suggest a role for Joe with the team in some capacity, in lieu of playing next season (or sooner). Do we have any indication that Mauer has any desire to be a coach or other advisor-type person? What role would we like him to have? While I don't think this is necessarily in and of itself a bad idea, my take is that it is being suggested more as an "whatever it takes to get him off the field" option.

Do we want him as a hitting coach? I suspect not.

A veteran presence? Many have commented he seems ill-suited for this.

A good clubhouse guy? Not necessarily his strength.

Simply a fan ambassador? Maybe...

Perhaps others have better ideas than me. Thoughts?

[yarnivek1972]

What is telling is that this was Mauer's second career walk off hit. This is a guy that has been in the middle of the lineup his entire career. You would expect one or two every year.

[USAFChief]

For reasons no rational brain can figure out.....walk-offs are allowed to be a mosh pit of exuberance. But only this.

 

http://thestagnantfilipino.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Stupidity-And-Beyond.jpg

Off topic, but I simply can't let this go.

 

Do you really not see the difference in spontaneous joy, generated by honest emotion, and Jose Bautista's calculated, all about showing up the other team, joyless middle finger of a bat flip?

 

Because most of the world, including every ball player, can spot the difference immediately.

[TheLeviathan]

Guys spontaneously show emotion and passion all the time and get drilled for it.

 

Hell, guys do things accidently (like slides and HBP) and people get drilled for it.

 

Suggesting the difference is intent vs spontaneity is absurd.

Edited May 6, 2017 by TheLeviathan

[TheLeviathan]

I loved Joe's walkoff and I love the emotion of it BTW.

 

But in doing so I'm staying entirely consistent. If you get pissy at Bautista but love this you're being a hypocrite or short sighted or a homer. But you aren't being consistent.

Edited May 6, 2017 by TheLeviathan

[USAFChief]

Guys spontaneously show emotion and passion all the time and get drilled for it.

 

Hell, guys do things accidently (like slides and HBP) and people get drilled for it.

 

Suggesting the difference is intent vs spontaneity is absurd.

Nope. Not absurd. At least not to the people actually involved.

[TheLeviathan]

Nope. Not absurd. At least not to the people actually involved.

Well that's sort of the point. Their thinking is absurdly stupid. You tried to assert it was some sort of clear delineation along lines of spontaneity vs intent.

 

It's not that at all. It's more like as soon as the game is final exuberant displays of emotion that would otherwise be construed as deliberate attempts to show people up are ignored. That's the real truth.

 

I'm happy for Mauer and, as a fan, his joy is awesome to watch. As I find clutch playoff grand slam celebrations awesome to watch too. I'm just not arbitrarily picking and choosing.

Edited May 6, 2017 by TheLeviathan

[KirbyDome89]

 

I loved Joe's walkoff and I love the emotion of it BTW.

But in doing so I'm staying entirely consistent. If you get pissy at Bautista but love this you're being a hypocrite or short sighted or a homer. But you aren't being consistent.

Isn't that being argued to the point of absurdity though? If you're not allowed to different between celebrations and you have to condemn them all then the same rules must apply to every HBP right?

 

I had an issue with Sano getting plunked and Machado ducking fastballs near his head, but I'm not rankled every time a batter gets hit. There has to be room to make distinctions. 

Edited May 7, 2017 by KirbyDome89

[TheLeviathan]

 

I had an issue with Sano getting plunked and Machado ducking fastballs near his head, but I'm not rankled every time a batter gets hit. There has to be room to make distinctions.

 

Of course! When it's an accident, then I totally understand. Otherwise, don't see the point.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Of course! When it's an accident, then I totally understand. Otherwise, don't see the point.

The point would be that just as every HBP isn't the same, neither is every celebration. Like I said, there needs to be a way to make distinctions. 

[Squirrel]

Please stay to topic. This needn't turn into another 'unwritten rules' thread or 'hbp retribution' threads.

[TheLeviathan]

But on topic, it was nice to see a jubilant Joe Mauer!

[TKGuy]

He handled that high heater pretty well

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Louie Opatz has some good analysis of the situation w/ Joe

 

http://www.twinkietown.com/2017/5/5/15540728/what-exactly-is-joe-mauer-up-to-contact-babip-strikeouts-walks-minnesota-twins-mlb

[spinowner]

I'm glad that this discussion had only minimal mention of $23M, but it should have received no mention because it's irrelevant.

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm glad that this discussion had only minimal mention of $23M, but it should have received no mention because it's irrelevant.

Irrelevant because it has to be paid regardless?

I mean, I guess. But that is true of all mlb contracts. Therefore they are all irrelevant. In which case I don't want to hear any excuses about going after an ace pitcher or two.

Yes, you'll probably be overpaying for a used up arm the last few years, but that's irrelevant, right?

 

Look, I personally don't bring up Joe's contract. He earned it at the time, he had to be retained, and that was the price.

But I don't think it's fair to say its irrelevant.

Like it or not, the Twins operate under a self imposed salary cap. And when you are under a salary cap, production to cost matters. It matters a lot.

Of course, there is nothing we can do about that now. But that isn't the same thing as being irrelevant.

[mudcat14]

Today's pinch-hitting result is just another example of why it is time to give Mauer his Unconditional Release.  Tying run at 3rd with less than two out and he's looking for a walk in order to leave things up to a utility infielder with 2 big league AB's this season.  I don't care if it was off the plate or not, it was a 70some mph curveball up, to a hitter who has made a living of waiting back on pitches before committing to the swing.  He quite simply didn't have the stones to attempt to put it in play and tie the game.  He is not the type of leader our young squad needs to forge ahead.  Period.

 

As has been posted, his salary is a sunk cost.  No one, repeat no one is willing to take any off our hands.  The only real solution to the Mauer Quagmire is Unconditional Release!

[yarnivek1972]

Today's pinch-hitting result is just another example of why it is time to give Mauer his Unconditional Release. Tying run at 3rd with less than two out and he's looking for a walk in order to leave things up to a utility infielder with 2 big league AB's this season. I don't care if it was off the plate or not, it was a 70some mph curveball up, to a hitter who has made a living of waiting back on pitches before committing to the swing. He quite simply didn't have the stones to attempt to put it in play and tie the game. He is not the type of leader our young squad needs to forge ahead. Period.

 

As has been posted, his salary is a sunk cost. No one, repeat no one is willing to take any off our hands. The only real solution to the Mauer Quagmire is Unconditional Release!

I also don't care whether it was a "technological" strike. It was CLOSE ENOUGH to swing at with 2 strikes. I thought I saw a graphic that said Mauer swings and misses 8% of the time this year. So, that means a swing by Mauer had a 92% chance of either being a foul ball or in play. A ball in play ties the game unless he hits a line drive to an infielder.

 

His approach is 100% me first, team second - but only if it helps me. I'll wager you would never hear him say "Climb on board boys. I'm driving this bus. "

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

no way is this a strike.

 

Also keep in mind the camera angle is slightly off center, making it look closer than it really is.

 

 nice little league framing however

 

 

 

 

[yarnivek1972]

no way is this a strike.

 

Also keep in mind the camera angle is slightly off center, making it look closer than it really is.

 

nice little league framing however

 

Too close to take. Especially for a guy that swings and misses 8% of the time. Worst case scenario he fouls it off. Best case scenario he ties the game. Even if Mauer walks, Kimbrell had little difficulty disposing of Kepler. I doubt Grossman would have been any more difficult.

[USAFChief]

Looks like a strike to me.

 

In any case, doesn't matter. Drive in the run. That's what you were sent up there to do. He also took a FB that split the plate for strike 2.

 

Swing the bat.

[DrNeau]

 

Runner on 3rd, 1 out, down by a run, bot 8, 3-2 count. You can't take this pitch. 

 

Mauer is way too busy reaching to un-strap his shin guard to be concerned with swinging the bat. 

[Riverbrian]

 

Too close to take. Especially for a guy that swings and misses 8% of the time. Worst case scenario he fouls it off. Best case scenario he ties the game. Even if Mauer walks, Kimbrell had little difficulty disposing of Kepler. I doubt Grossman would have been any more difficult.

 

I will criticize Joe for swinging at Ball Two on the second pitch of the at-bat. That wasn't necessary at the time and a little out of character for Joe. 

 

I will criticize Joe for looking at Strike Two on the 3rd pitch of the at-bat which was a fastball dead center. 

 

I will criticize Joe for habitually throughout his career getting himself into 2 strike counts by passing by pitches down the middle and therefore putting himself in position to get rung up by a blind umpire on the third strike. 

 

But I will not criticize him for looking at pitch number 8 of the at-bat. It was a backdoor curve that didn't make it to the back door. It was a ball when it left his hand... it was a ball when it reached the catchers glove... There was never a time when that ball would make any hitter's brain start a swing. It was not only outside but high. 

 

He would have had to of known that a 3-2 curve was coming from a closer with a wicked fastball just to hold back long enough to foul it off defensively. 

 

It was never in the zone... It wasn't close to a strike. It was a bad call. 

 

 

[DrNeau]

 

Looks like a strike to me.

In any case, doesn't matter. Drive in the run. That's what you were sent up there to do. He also took a FB that split the plate for strike 2.

Swing the bat.

 

Agreed. This was the 1-1 pitch he took. Couldn't believe it. He lets pitches like this go by, then goes into "protect" mode. He really needs to consider changing his approach. Based off of his recent quotes in the Pioneer Press article, he has no intention of changing anything. Molitor's quote shows he will support Joe in that, too. Disturbing.

 

[DrNeau]

 

Sad that his instinct in that 3-2 situation is to reach for his shin guard, rather than protect. Very close to a strike. Game Day actually says it was a strike. It's one thing to be fooled on a back-door slider. It's another thing to let a 1-1 fastball go right down the center of the plate in a 1-run game with a runner on 3B and not even offer at it. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by DrNeau

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

But I will not criticize him for looking at pitch number 8 of the at-bat. It was a backdoor curve that didn't make it to the back door. It was a ball when it left his hand... it was a ball when it reached the catchers glove... There was never a time when that ball would make any hitter's brain start a swing. It was not only outside but high. 

 

Yep exactly. They called for the back door curve, that's what they threw, they missed the plate, not by much but they got a generous call from the ump. Joe has probably never had a pitch like that called a strike in his career.