When do we begin to believe Robbie Grossman is a good hitter?

[kab21]

Strange thread. I was one of several Robbie supporters this offseason when several offseason plans had him being cut (or nearly cut). And now 8 games (for him) into the season we are talking about him possibly being the Twins DH and a .800+ OPS player.

Very, very unlikely. He is a solid player though and I compared him to Gene Larkin before. low BA, high OBP with a little pop. Ideally he would be used in that role and the Twins could find out if Park or Vargas are real options going forward. It isn't about age but upside. Grossman's upside is a .750-ish OPS with a high OBP. I want to find out if either Vargas or Park (my current preference) is a .800+ OPS hitter with 25-30 HR's at the DH spot.

[DaveW]

So you are saying Grossman will have the game winning hit in game 7 of the World Series? I'd be ok with that

[Brock Beauchamp]

Tonight, should he play, Grossman will cross 600 plate appearances with the Twins, posting an OPS around .830 with very little statistical movement between 2016 and 2017.

 

Is he a legit .800 OPS player yet?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Also, Fangraphs has his DRS at -1 in 187.0 innings.

 

Last year? -21 DRS in 637.1 innings.

[The Wise One]

 

Tonight, should he play, Grossman will cross 600 plate appearances with the Twins, posting an OPS around .830 with very little statistical movement between 2016 and 2017.

 

Is he a legit .800 OPS player yet?

As long as Grossman does not provide great outfield defense eye test by the fans and little HR power as a DH,  there will be people not respectful of his hitting

[drjim]

Would people here be comfortable with Grossman entering next season as the mostly everyday lf?

 

I could see the Twins trading Rosario for pitching, then follow up by signing a 4th of type to play off Grossman.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Would people here be comfortable with Grossman entering next season as the mostly everyday lf?

If the Twins acquired roughly 11 more pitchers who can miss bats, maybe.

 

As it stands now, no way.

[Vanimal46]

Grossman is pretty valuable as the primary DH while also filling in occasionally at LF. Maybe 1B could suit him as well.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Would people here be comfortable with Grossman entering next season as the mostly everyday lf?

I could see the Twins trading Rosario for pitching, then follow up by signing a 4th of type to play off Grossman.

 

I can't see anyone trading for Rosario*.

 

*note, I meant to type this before last night, so I'm just being fair. I still don't see it.

[Doomtints]

Last year, pitchers for some teams found great success by pitching down and away. This year, most teams are doing it and the dominant teams last year have lost their edge.

 

Take a look at which part of the strike zone Grossman has success. As long as pitchers do not adjust to him as being an exception, he will light it up on offense.

 

Though he probably won't be an exception for long. Increasingly hitters -- including Twins hitters -- are focusing on this part of the strike zone. The next dominant pitching team will exploit this.

[Oldgoat_MN]

In the off-season on these boards I felt belittled when I insisted that getting rid of the guy with the 3rd highest OPS on the team (behind Dozier & Vargas) was a bad idea.

I am not going to pretend I had any idea he would be this consistent. 

We should all be happy for what Robbie has brought to the Twins.

(and thank heavens his fielding last year was an aberration!)

[Vanimal46]

In the off-season on these boards I felt belittled when I insisted that getting rid of the guy with the 3rd highest OPS on the team (behind Dozier & Vargas) was a bad idea.

I am not going to pretend I had any idea he would be this consistent.

We should all be happy for what Robbie has brought to the Twins.

(and thank heavens his fielding last year was an aberration!)

Yeah, admittedly I was so jaded by his defense last season that I wanted nothing to do with him. He's found a nice little home as the DH and isn't killing the team whenever he does play LF!

[drjim]

 

I can't see anyone trading for Rosario*.

 

*note, I meant to type this before last night, so I'm just being fair. I still don't see it.

 

I disagree, even before last night. He can play CF which gives him more value than he provides the Twins with Buxton on the roster.

 

They won't get an ace, but could get a controllable 3-4 type, someone between Berrios and Mejia. It would only happen in the offseason.

[yarnivek1972]

 

I disagree, even before last night. He can play CF which gives him more value than he provides the Twins with Buxton on the roster.

 

They won't get an ace, but could get a controllable 3-4 type, someone between Berrios and Mejia. It would only happen in the offseason.

 

 

I don't see any scenario in which any team gives up a quality MLB starting pitcher (which is what a 3-4 would be) for Eddie Rosario.  Not by himself.  Pitching is the far more valued commodity.  Would you give up Mejia to get Rosario?

 

And don't say "yes, if I had surplus pitching."  No one does.  NO ONE.

[Blake]

 

Yeah, admittedly I was so jaded by his defense last season that I wanted nothing to do with him. He's found a nice little home as the DH and isn't killing the team whenever he does play LF!

It wasn't just last year, there were a couple of less than memorable "adventures in the outfield with Grossman" this year too. However, since then, Grossman has done a lot to get better at his job.

 

I still think Grossman was kept because he takes professional at-bats and was basically going to be a placeholder until either Vargas or Park showed they were ready.

 

However, I now think Grossman has shown he's more valuable than originally thought (good for him!) and therefore he's secured a place in the lineup.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I disagree, even before last night. He can play CF which gives him more value than he provides the Twins with Buxton on the roster.

 

They won't get an ace, but could get a controllable 3-4 type, someone between Berrios and Mejia. It would only happen in the offseason.

 

wow, I think we disagree on his value!

 

If they can get that, they better do it.

[USAFChief]

Tonight, should he play, Grossman will cross 600 plate appearances with the Twins, posting an OPS around .830 with very little statistical movement between 2016 and 2017.

 

Is he a legit .800 OPS player yet?

I'll admit I expected Grossman to fall off the earth this year. I'm still not convinced he's this good of a hitter, but I have to admit the sample size is growing. And he was remarkably consistent in the minors, all he's really done in the majors is add a little power, which isn't unusual as a hitter matures.

 

And he's just fine as an occasional corner outfielder.

 

So what I guess I'm saying is...Maybe.

[Mr. Brooks]

Rosario might get a fringe 5th starter, a Tommy Milone/Mike Pelfrey. That's about it though.

[Bill Brown69]

I said before Joe went on his tear that maybe they should give him a First baseman's glove to practice with. I still think that would add considerably to his value. It would be a lot easier to keep his bat in the lineup and keep Joe fresh. 

[Taildragger8791]

 

I said before Joe went on his tear that maybe they should give him a First baseman's glove to practice with. I still think that would add considerably to his value. It would be a lot easier to keep his bat in the lineup and keep Joe fresh. 

 

Joe's cooled off the last couple of weeks, still might not be a bad idea to ensure he doesn't disintegrate.

[drjim]

 

Rosario might get a fringe 5th starter, a Tommy Milone/Mike Pelfrey. That's about it though.

 

That's way underrating Rosario. He's not a nothing.

 

I am assuming that a team would be comfortable putting him in cf, which may be an incorrect assumption, but I don't think so. He's 25 and still has multiple cheap seasons ahead of him.

[drjim]

 

I don't see any scenario in which any team gives up a quality MLB starting pitcher (which is what a 3-4 would be) for Eddie Rosario.  Not by himself.  Pitching is the far more valued commodity.  Would you give up Mejia to get Rosario?

 

And don't say "yes, if I had surplus pitching."  No one does.  NO ONE.

 

I would give up Mejia for Rosario, yes. Rosario is worth more than Mejia.

[Taildragger8791]

 

That's way underrating Rosario. He's not a nothing.

 

I am assuming that a team would be comfortable putting him in cf, which may be an incorrect assumption, but I don't think so. He's 25 and still has multiple cheap seasons ahead of him.

 

You might be overrating Rosario. I like the guy but he's starting to settle in as a firm sub-.300 OBP (36 career walks!) hitter who doesn't slug or steal bases. Plays good defense in the corner but would be below average in CF. His strikeout rate is coming down, which is good to see, and I hold out hope that his talent will translate into further improvement. But with over 1000 plate appearances we're probably not looking at a future solid starter unless he suddenly starts popping 25 bombs per year and doubles or triples his walk rate.

[Mike Sixel]

After yesterday, Rosario would rank 14th in wRC+ among CFs that qualify. His base running is somehow not scoring all that well.....

 

So, he's maybe a slightly below average CF?

[drjim]

After yesterday, Rosario would rank 14th in wRC+ among CFs that qualify. His base running is somehow not scoring all that well.....

 

So, he's maybe a slightly below average CF?

Sounds about right to me. Combine that with low salary and a little upside and he has value.

 

I'm not expecting an ace here, but better than a #5, and someone with a little control.

[gunnarthor]

I like Grossman. He takes "professional" at-bats and I think that helps a lineup by letting others see more pitches, having pitchers waste pitches and (mostly) by getting on-base himself. He's solid. I like him as DH for now and the occasional 4th OFer spot. I still don't like Vargas and I'd rather have the Rosario/Buxton/Kepler OF most of the time. 

[gheggs42]

I don't get all the negativity for Grossman, I mean the guy is 2nd on the team in wRC+ behind only Sano. I realize that's not the end all be all stat to use but the guy is playing very solid..

[yarnivek1972]

 

I would give up Mejia for Rosario, yes. Rosario is worth more than Mejia.

 

 

Hmm, it took an all star infielder to acquire Mejia.  In other words, a guy at the very top of his game.  Nunez had a .760 OPS and 27 SB when the Twins traded him.  He still had 2 full seasons of team control and has exceptional position flexibility.  Rosario has never had an OPS above .750 despite playing a position of greater offensive expectation.  Rosario is not a regular CFer.  He has a career UZR 150 of -2.0 in CF.  He can fill in occasionally, but really not more than 20-30 games per season.

 

He's a good defensive corner OFer who hits like a good fielding CFer.

 

I find it a little curious that you value a barely replacement level corner OFer over a 23 year left handed starter that can crank it in the mid 90s.  There are a lot more of one of of those assets than there are of the other. 

[jorgenswest]

Guys like Hicks, Nunez and Grossman needed a lot of at bats before they became solid players. It is hard for teams to wait out those 1000-1500 plate appearances or have patience to age 27. Even harder for fans.

[kab21]

 

Tonight, should he play, Grossman will cross 600 plate appearances with the Twins, posting an OPS around .830 with very little statistical movement between 2016 and 2017.

 

Is he a legit .800 OPS player yet?

I am sticking with mid to upper .700's. This might be gradually climbing but I am trying to stay consistent and not jump all over the place like others.

 

At least we won't see any more threads about whether or not he should be cut since he isn't that good of a hitter and is poor defensively. Gene Larkin has solidified his place on the team.