DaveW: Dodgers trade for Dozier to be completed within the next 24 hours

[darin617]

 

I'd think the Twins could trade for Puig in addition to DeLeon and other prospects. They'd take on the contract, which would give the Dodgers some cost relief they need. And I remain convinced Puig would be a superb addition to the outfield.

 

I know a lot of others don't like Puig much. But his first two years in the league ... boy that would be sweet in a Twins uniform next to Sano if he could do that again.

 

He would not be a good add to a rebuilding team. The best thing for Puig would probably be a trade to Miami that has a large Cuban fanbase.

[jimmer]

No new updates yet. Source is getting impatient themselves for the deal to finalize!!

now that jansen is a done deal and turner is about to be, the trade will hopefully happen.

[Cory Engelhardt]

He would not be a good add to a rebuilding team. The best thing for Puig would probably be a trade to Miami that has a large Cuban fanbase.

No offense, but you know this how? He has talent, real talent, and that is kind of in short supply here, even though the twins are a rebuilding team. Plus, he and De Leon are close friends apparently, so having them both here could help

[beehles]

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?916686-Dodgers-Winter-Meetings-Thread/page29

 

Link to a Dodger's fan forum. Started with the Winter Meetings and a lot of Dozier talk in the early portion of the thread. Then followed by some impatient heckling back and forth about the Dodgers not doing anything so far, their luxury tax problem, roster issues, and GM/ownership debates. Now with the Jansen signing and soon to be Turner signing most of them are all for the idea of unloading a few prospects to get Dozier.

 

Kind of a fun read to follow if you can sift through the annoying parts haha.

 

PS. Been following this thread pretty religiously since its inception and really enjoying all of the updates DaveW. Hoping something gets done soon and we can improve our pitching for the forseeable future!

[DaveW]

Twins have no real interest in Puig, if they were to "take him on" it would be pretty much as a salary dump. 

Busy day for the Dodgers for sure, I have no major updates, but I think it happens soon.

[nicksaviking]

FYI for those recently re-joining us:

 

Moderator note - I am unlocking this thread on a trial basis for the sole and limited purpose of Dave keeping us updated and people talking about the potential impact of the trade.

 

There were a lot of good posts here, people. And some very funny posts. Overall, this was a very entertaining thread and there was some interesting analysis, But some feelings got hurt and some posts got too personal, so until I have worked that out with the parties I am unlocking this thread with two special ground rules:

 

1. No more joking, no matter how funny. Think of this as Windows startup mode until further notice..

 

2. No questioning of Dave's veracity, no matter how it is phrased. If you doubt Dave's veracity then please just go read another thread. This thread should not be about Dave.

 

I am disappointed that we came to a point where snepp had to close one of the most popular and entertaining threads in TD history. I believe that as a community we can and must do better than this.

 

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I did not have the privilege to grow up in the Twin Cities and for a decade I had to follow the Twins by radio. I did not meet a fellow Twins fan in person until I was 30 years old. You people make me feel sad when you fail to appreciate the value of your fellow Twins fans.

 

We moderators work hard to create a place where you can disagree and argue like you might with your best friend, NOT like you might argue in some anonymous forum. 

 

Please note that this lecture applies only to a handful of you, and they know who they are.

 

[Cory Engelhardt]

Twins have no real interest in Puig, if they were to "take him on" it would be pretty much as a salary dump. 

Busy day for the Dodgers for sure, I have no major updates, but I think it happens soon.

So do you think it is only prospects then? Or could the twins also get back a Trayce Thompson or Andrew Toles, for example?

[Old Twins Cap]

Anything can happen, but for the Dodgers, reality starts with this:  the Cubs will be damn good next year, the Nationals may be better, then there are the Cardinals and San Francisco, two teams that could beat them in the playoffs.

 

If you have Kershaw and go out on the limb with Jansen and Turner and you have Corey Seager and Adrian Gonzalez, at some point, you have to make a big move to get over the top and validate all the talent and work that has gone into making the team.

 

That's why I think they go after Dozier.

[ashbury]

He would not be a good add to a rebuilding team. The best thing for Puig would probably be a trade to Miami that has a large Cuban fanbase.

What Marlins prospects do we want? How about a three way trade, with the Twins breaking new ground by paying a majority of Puig's remaining contract in exchange for better prospects? Hey, a fan can dream. But, in this crazy world right now, the Twins have the most financial room of these three teams. Why not be the catalyst for two teams somewhat strapped for cash and "buy" a high end prospect, or more, for $17.5M plus their gratitude?

 

I know, I know, these are my Twins I'm talking about...

[spanman2]

 

Have a source within one of the two teams listed above. I was just texted that the deal is all but done, just a couple questions on the 4th piece to come back in the trade.

 

 

(Hi gang. John Bonnes is editing this quickly. While we at TwinsDaily think DaveW is a helluva guy, we are not verifying this claim. TwinsDaily's forums allow for a free & civil exchange of information, ideas & opinions of our members. That's what this is. And that's cool; we want to groupsource what we're hearing, and I appreciate DaveW taking a personal risk to share this with the community. But, just so we're clear:Twins Daily is NOT reporting this.) 

 

Moderator's note: And, just in case someone new stumbles into this thread thinking it might be worth reading all the way through: it almost immediately became a groupsourced humor thread (with occasional updates from the original poster on the nominal topic), with dozens of tangents and sub-tangents, setting some kind of unofficial TD record for length within a short time. Enjoy, if that's your style, because it's all (mostly?) in good fun, but don't invest time looking for officially announced news, because if and when any news actually exists it will be found in a TD article, not a member thread like this one.  -- ashburyjohn

If that source is correct what a source it is.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

What Marlins prospects do we want? How about a three way trade, with the Twins breaking new ground by paying a majority of Puig's remaining contract in exchange for better prospects? Hey, a fan can dream. But, in this crazy world right now, the Twins have the most financial room of these three teams. Why not be the catalyst for two teams somewhat strapped for cash and "buy" a high end prospect, or more, for $17.5M plus their gratitude?

 

I know, I know, these are my Twins I'm talking about...

 

Interesting idea for a 3 way trade. Twins pay Puig's salary.  LA ships Puig to Miami for a prospect that either comes our way or used to upgrade another piece from lottery ticket to legit prospect...

 

Like the idea.  Of course, LA can print money, so I don't know why they'd do that unless there's some luxury tax implication or that debt problem is a LOT worse than what has been reported.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I am starting to wonder if Dozier is even good for the Dodgers budget, longer term when they will subject to the luxury tax. Yeah, he's inexpensive now, but he's either gone or expensive (or bad) in 2 years.

 

Prospects seem to be the one way they can keep that payroll at least somewhat under control, which suggests why they might be reluctant to part with too many prospects for this particular player.

[jimmer]

 

I am starting to wonder if Dozier is even good for the Dodgers budget, longer term when they will subject to the luxury tax. Yeah, he's inexpensive now, but he's either gone or expensive (or bad) in 2 years.

Prospects seem to be the one way they can keep that payroll at least somewhat under control, which suggests why they might be reluctant to part with too many prospects for this particular player.

Their for sure window is two years.  After that, Kershaw can opt out  

 

Dozier is incredibly inexpensive and if money was their issue, they wouldn't have just spent 16M a year for 5 years for a closer.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Their for sure window is two years. After that, Kershaw can opt out

 

Dozier is incredibly inexpensive and if money was their issue, they wouldn't have just spent 16M a year for 5 years for a closer.

I think they envision a perpetual window, so I don't know that the next two years are that much more important than, say, the next 5, in which case these prospects could help a lot more than Dozier (either by playing themselves, or being leveraged for a longer controlled asset than Dozier).

[Richie the Rally Goat]

De Leon, Alvarez, others......though if they it was Bellinger and not Alvarez, I'd still vote "yay". I just want more high upside pitching.

i bet the Dodgers would do De Leon and Alvarez plus 3rd piece but the Twins want De Leon and Belinger plus a 3rd piece or more to get more closer to major league ready talent than the Dodgers really want to give up right now

[ashbury]

Of course, LA can print money

The issue for LA is debt service, which MLB has told them to get under control relative to overall expenses and revenue. A temporary condition, but perhaps exploitable this one off-season. Long term, yeah, LA is fine.

 

I'm dreaming, of course. But it's an example of why I would have seriously considered non-tendering Hector Santiago, for flexibility. That $8M or thereabouts matches pretty close to Puig, for this one season out of the two he has remaining, meaning we'd only have to swallow the second year's salary. Seems a more likely way to acquire a good additional prospect than by trying to trade Santiago directly. But it's a very superficial view of team finances, I am sure.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The issue for LA is debt service, which MLB has told them to get under control relative to overall expenses and revenue. A temporary condition, but perhaps exploitable this off-season.

I think that report was somewhat overblown. I later read a few sources that said it would not impact their moves. (Indeed it does not seem to be mattering, between Hill, Jansen, and Turner. And it's not like there is a more expensive second baseman available -- the primary appeal of Dozier is his talent, and availability of course.)

[1965GREATYEAR]

 

That would be some outside the box thinking that we have not seen from the Twins before. Would be cool to see them pull off said scenario. Buying prospects from the Marlins for Puig would be a good idea, but we know this they could barely get the Twins (Jim Pohlad) to absorb any Nolasco salary to move him on, but they did move a prospect to make some of that salary move away from the books.
Flipping a Puig into something like a starting shortstop would be nice. It's not the Twins way to put salary on the books for lower costs players, we really have never seen this franchise do that.

 

What Marlins prospects do we want? How about a three way trade, with the Twins breaking new ground by paying a majority of Puig's remaining contract in exchange for better prospects? Hey, a fan can dream. But, in this crazy world right now, the Twins have the most financial room of these three teams. Why not be the catalyst for two teams somewhat strapped for cash and "buy" a high end prospect, or more, for $17.5M plus their gratitude?

 

I know, I know, these are my Twins I'm talking about...

Ummm you guys know Donny Ballgame is still Marlins manager, right? Puig will never be in Miami as long as Mattingly is there.

[1965GREATYEAR]

 

I'm trying to figure out how they made the smog go away.

Start with Clean Air Act and go from there

[ashbury]

Ummm you guys know Donny Ballgame is still Marlins manager, right? Puig will never be in Miami as long as Mattingly is there.

Pipe dream withdrawn.

[Baseball Bat]

I'd be willing to take on a bad contract for a year or two if it means better players. It's easy to wipe out, get rid of Santiago, trade Santana. That and Dozier's salary is $28.5 million gone right there.

[Cory Engelhardt]

3 way trades this large are very tough.

I haven't heard anything about a third team.

DaveW, if the deal is De Leon, Alvarez and another aaaa player or two, do you have names of specific other players? Just curious. Thanks again for this thread

[TheLeviathan]

I'm not sure if this is posted, but yahoo is cheerleading it now too!

[DaveW]

DaveW, if the deal is De Leon, Alvarez and another aaaa player or two, do you have names of specific other players? Just curious. Thanks again for this thread

No idea, I know the Twins would prefer guys like Lux, dodgers won't include those types though.

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

So if i understand this correctly: 4 prospects including De-Leon and Alvarez plus two rhp's and ptbnl?

Seems like a lot for Dozier.

It's way too much for Dozier.  I've run it by some Dodgers fans and no one buys it or should I say no one would be happy about it.  The Dodgers paid $16 million to sign Alvarez.  After one minor league season at rookie and low A level where he excelled, I have a hard time believing he is the second piece for a ..250 hitter. No offense to Dozier.  He had a great season.  If the Twins got offered Deleon and Stewart, I would jump at it if I was the Twins GM.  Now the guy who broke the Turner and Jansen signings last night has sources that we can't doubt.  Chris Carello broke all of it last evening long before MLBTR and all of the talking heads got a hold of it. 

 

The Dodgers have some roster shuffling to do in order to make room for JT and KJ.  They only have one spot open right now.  Of course a trade for Dozier that includes at least 2 guys on the 40 man roster would fix that.

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

I think they envision a perpetual window, so I don't know that the next two years are that much more important than, say, the next 5, in which case these prospects could help a lot more than Dozier (either by playing themselves, or being leveraged for a longer controlled asset than Dozier).

You are correct.  They are never in all-in mode.  There were no real in-house replacements for Turner and Jansen, especially Turner and it would have cost them prospects to replace them.  Now that they still have all of their prospects with the exception of the ones wasted on Josh Reddick, the Dodgers have enough prospects to get a Dozier, Kinsler, or Solarte to play 2b.  Bellinger and Buehler will not be traded and I'm doubtful about Alvarez.   I will say that the Dodgers would have to move an outfielder if they have any inclination in getting involved with McCutcheon.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Seems like the easy solution is to tell the Dodgers that we will take Puig and his contract if they upgrade the 3rd piece to a legit prospect. He's not going to be worse than Rosario, and if he comes out strong he can be flipped at the deadline for another piece if the clubhouse issues are too much to deal with.

[Cory Engelhardt]

It's way too much for Dozier.  I've run it by some Dodgers fans and no one buys it or should I say no one would be happy about it.  The Dodgers paid $16 million to sign Alvarez.  After one minor league season at rookie and low A level where he excelled, I have a hard time believing he is the second piece for a ..250 hitter. No offense to Dozier.  He had a great season.  If the Twins got offered Deleon and Stewart, I would jump at it if I was the Twins GM.  Now the guy who broke the Turner and Jansen signings last night has sources that we can't doubt.  Chris Carello broke all of it last evening long before MLBTR and all of the talking heads got a hold of it. 

 

The Dodgers have some roster shuffling to do in order to make room for JT and KJ.  They only have one spot open right now.  Of course a trade for Dozier that includes at least 2 guys on the 40 man roster would fix that.

I think what you quoted was worded poorly. DaveW has been saying forever (since this thread started) that Alvarez and De Leon are agreed upon, and the other piece or two are being discussed. So, his offer is 3 or 4 total players, already including Alvarez and De Leon. Not 6 total players.

I don't know if Alvarez is up in the discussions or not, just wanted to clear up what DaveW said the offer was

[Oxtung]

 

It's way too much for Dozier.  I've run it by some Dodgers fans and no one buys it or should I say no one would be happy about it.  The Dodgers paid $16 million to sign Alvarez.  After one minor league season at rookie and low A level where he excelled, I have a hard time believing he is the second piece for a ..250 hitter. No offense to Dozier.  He had a great season.  If the Twins got offered Deleon and Stewart, I would jump at it if I was the Twins GM.  Now the guy who broke the Turner and Jansen signings last night has sources that we can't doubt.  Chris Carello broke all of it last evening long before MLBTR and all of the talking heads got a hold of it. 

 

The Dodgers have some roster shuffling to do in order to make room for JT and KJ.  They only have one spot open right now.  Of course a trade for Dozier that includes at least 2 guys on the 40 man roster would fix that.

 

The Twins are in both a good and bad position currently. The good, Dozier is a valuable commodity and is signed to a team friendly multi-year deal. There is no external pressure to move him. In fact there is probably internal pressure to not move him. He is the face of the franchise, the only real marketable player currently and in addition is the clubhouse leader. All reports say he is one hell of a guy and teammate.

 

The bad, the Twins have several holes to fill on their roster (obviously).  The biggest being starting pitching.  The Twins have a glut of mid/back of the rotation options available both currently, in the short term, mid term and long term. What the Twins don't have, at the major league level or in the minors, is potential front of the rotation options.

 

A return of DeLeon and Stewart makes little sense from the Twins perspective. Stewart, according to the publicly available sources, is a back of the rotation arm that is currently ready for MLB. The problem is the Twins already have a backlog they need to weed through of 4th/5th starters with 3 more that were at AA last year on the way. DeLeon, while an above average pitcher which the Twins definately need, doesn't profile as a top of the rotation pitcher either.

 

In order for a trade to make sense from the Twins perspective there either needs to be a legitimate "Ace" potential, which seems to be Alvarez in the Dodgers system, or multiple premium prospects. 

 

There are a few things that could change this analysis. First, the Twins new CBO came from the Indians org where he was integrally involved in taking mid-rotation pitchers and improving them to #1/2 starters. If there was a prospect he thought could be improved in a similar manner that clearly changes things. Second, if Ervin Santana were to be traded that could potentially open up a spot in the Twin's rotation for a guy like Stewart that is ready to step in immediately.  

[darin617]

 

Seems like the easy solution is to tell the Dodgers that we will take Puig and his contract if they upgrade the 3rd piece to a legit prospect. He's not going to be worse than Rosario, and if he comes out strong he can be flipped at the deadline for another piece if the clubhouse issues are too much to deal with.

 

No teams were interested in Puig at all during the trade deadline. His value is at probably its lowest ever for 2 reasons, look at his stats the last few years and he is a pain to teammates. Sure, you could get him with the part of a better 3rd prospect and hope like hell he performs and does not cause problems. But do you really want to gamble like that when he will be owed $17.4M for the next 2 years? I would have to say pass on Puig.