Article: Twins Trade Nolasco, Meyer, Cash To Angels For Hector Santiago

[nicksaviking]

I don't know. But 6 years of control is pretty valuable, especially for a team that won't give multi-year contracts to relievers, therefore can't join free agency.

Good thing they traded for a reliever with six years of control then I guess.

 

Busenitz also has more options left than Meyer. Even without the Nolasco/Santiago components, it's still a push at worst under these standards.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Good thing they traded for a reliever with six years of control then I guess.

 

Busenitz also has more options left than Meyer. Even without the Nolasco/Santiago components, it's still a push at worst under these standards.

I really question any analysis that suggests Busenitz is the equivalent of Meyer.

[TheLeviathan]

It's true if your argument for Meyer's value is limited to team control.

[nicksaviking]

I really question any analysis that suggests Busenitz is the equivalent of Meyer.

Well the concern replied to was giving up a reliever with 6 years of control.

 

But honestly, I was as big of a Meyer believer as anyone, even going into this year. I'm out though. Another forgettable season, this one due to an ominous shoulder issue that has kept him out nearly all year? No regrets. Yeah, at this point I'd take Busenitz straight up for Meyer.

[Otto von Ballpark]

It's true if your argument for Meyer's value is limited to team control.

I don't think anyone was limiting the argument fot Meyer solely to team control? I am not sure what the point of that would be.

 

He is an interesting prospect / lotto ticket with 6 years control. Busenitz and a million other players also have team control, but they are not necessarily Meyer's equal in terms of interesting prospect / lotto ticket.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't think anyone was limiting the argument fot Meyer solely to team control? I am not sure what the point of that would be.

 

Right there with you.  What is the point of that?  Because what was said above is that 6 years of team control is valuable and that's what the Angels traded for.

 

I guess, if their spit in the wind hope that he'll ever be anything other than a chronically injured, erratic player ever reverses, than that could be a relevant point.  It's just unlikely because A) his chronic injuries have frequently involved his shoulder (pretty much the worst thing you could have as a pitcher) and he'll be 27 by the time next season starts.

 

I understand not liking Santiago.  But let's be honest about who Alex Meyer is as of August 2016.  So, yeah, "6 years of team control" is about the most valuable thing you can say about him at this point.  And it's a terrible argument.

Edited August 15, 2016 by TheLeviathan

[jimmer]

I will enjoy watching Meyer play for the Salt Lake Bees for the next 3 seasons :-)

[TheTruth]

Baltimore had a 26 year old  pitcher that rocked a 6.20 ERA with the big club. Also split time in AAA. The following year split time between AAA and 2 MLB teams. As a 28 year old was sent down to A+ and AA before finally settling in with his new team, the Chicago Cubs.

 

The odds are Meyer won't become anything. To say for sure that he won't ? Well you can't, because you don't know. He has always been an intriguing prospect. There was no reason not to wait it out a couple of more years. He is cheap, and isn't blocking anyone.

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Baltimore had a 26 year old  pitcher that rocked a 6.20 ERA with the big club. Also split time in AAA. The following year split time between AAA and 2 MLB teams. As a 28 year old was sent down to A+ and AA before finally settling in with his new team, the Chicago Cubs.

 

The odds are Meyer won't become anything. To say for sure that he won't ? Well you can't, because you don't know. He has always been an intriguing prospect. There was no reason not to wait it out a couple of more years. He is cheap, and isn't blocking anyone.

 

Well, you would have carried him on the MLB roster next year, or do you think no team would claim him / sign him? 

 

And, they basically sold him for around $6-8MM, assuming they don't tender Santiago. Is that a fair price?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Well, you would have carried him on the MLB roster next year, or do you think no team would claim him / sign him? 

FYI, Meyer has an option remaining for next year.

[Mike Sixel]

 

FYI, Meyer has an option remaining for next year.

 

He does? Dang, then I like the trade less than I did....still don't hate it like some do, but now I am even more "meh" than I was before.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I understand not liking Santiago. But let's be honest about who Alex Meyer is as of August 2016.  So, yeah, "6 years of team control" is about the most valuable thing you can say about him at this point.  And it's a terrible argument.

I understand not liking Meyer's chances.  But let's be honest that he still has a lot more performance potential than Alan Busenitz, has thus far avoided surgery, and hasn't yet had a chance to fail in MLB.  (For that matter, his shoulder also has yet to fail outside the context of the Twins treatment and program for him, which might color our current perceptions of his health, so I'd caution against going to extreme judgements on that front quite yet.)

 

I have to imagine we could have sold Meyer for a few million bucks to any number of teams, if we hadn't used him to inject a few million of value into this trade instead.  He's still far from a sure thing, but his potential still has some value.  Like Nolasco, he was going nowhere fast in this organization so it's not unreasonable to ship him out, even if I wouldn't have done it (I think leaving him for the new head of baseball ops might have been prudent).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

He does? Dang, then I like the trade less than I did....still don't hate it like some do, but now I am even more "meh" than I was before.

Yes.  Meyer was added to the 40-man roster after 2014, so he was optioned in only 2015 and 2016 so far.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Meyer returned to game action in the Angels system a few days ago:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/angels-alex-meyer-makes-debut-with-angels-affiliate-friday/

[Mike Sixel]

 

Meyer returned to game action in the Angels system a few days ago:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/angels-alex-meyer-makes-debut-with-angels-affiliate-friday/

 

Weird, he never played in MN for months, now he's back already?

[ashbury]

Meyer returned to game action in the Angels system a few days ago:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/angels-alex-meyer-makes-debut-with-angels-affiliate-friday/

I looked up the game log. 3 strikeouts, 1 hit, in one inning of work in Arizona rookie league. But.... look closer:

 

AZL Giants Bottom of the 1st

    Mikey Edie reaches on a fielding error by first baseman Gabriel Santana.

    Jose Layer singles on a ground ball to right fielder John Schuknecht. Mikey Edie to 2nd.

    With Nick Hill batting, passed ball by Keinner Pina, Mikey Edie to 3rd. Jose Layer to 2nd.

    Nick Hill strikes out swinging.

    Sandro Fabian strikes out swinging, catcher Keinner Pina to first baseman Gabriel Santana.

    Michael Bernal called out on strikes.

 

Oy.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I understand not liking Meyer's chances.  But let's be honest that he still has a lot more performance potential than Alan Busenitz

 

Sure.  But if the argument is (and it was) that they traded for cost controlled service time, Busenitz and Meyer are equal.  

 

There is slightly more potential in Meyer, but it's mostly shadows of what once was.  Based on what he's actually done we should probably just bury that potential and stop pretending it's still around.

[Otto von Ballpark]

There is slightly more potential in Meyer, but it's mostly shadows of what once was. Based on what he's actually done we should probably just bury that potential and stop pretending it's still around.

I hope that is not an attitude shared by our next head of baseball ops. If the Twins could basically spend a couple million and a 40-man roster spot for a year and a half chance to get some other organization's Meyer on the right track, I sure hope we'd take that chance.

[sthpstm]

When I read articles of this trade from the Angels perspective and their expectations of Meyer, and combine that with questions about how legitimate his injury was, I can't help but wonder if Meyer was sitting out while Boras demanded a trade. I'm a cynic, I know.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I hope that is not an attitude shared by our next head of baseball ops. If the Twins could basically spend a couple million and a 40-man roster spot for a year and a half chance to get some other organization's Meyer on the right track, I sure hope we'd take that chance.

 

Someone else's?  Sure.  That wasn't happening here, for good or bad.  And some new FO was going to magically get him re-aligned either.  

 

Not to mention, Meyer has long been more about hype than production.  If we're going to grab someone else's reclamation project I sure as hell hope they've been more productive players.  I want to help guys figure it out, not rebuild them Bionic Man style at age 27.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Santiago is bad, but the Twins defense--Oh My!

For the most part, it's been "ok".  Then all of a sudden, everyone starts booting the ball.  Even a ball that's already in their gloves!

[jimmer]

Twins are 29th in defense in regards to defensive runs saved (-51).  At least we aren't 30th...

 

If errors and/or fielding % are your defensive stats of choice, also 29th in both.

Edited August 15, 2016 by jimmer

[TheLeviathan]

 

Twins are 29th in defense in regards to defensive runs saved (-51).  At least we aren't 30th...

 

At times we do look like we treat defense like your average T-ball coach for 7 year olds.

[jimmer]

 

At times we do look like we treat defense like your average T-ball coach for 7 year olds.

The Twins showed how much they care about defense when they put Sano in the OF.

 

Or Santana anywhere...

Edited August 15, 2016 by jimmer

[Vanimal46]

Defense has been a problem for a long time now. It is a night and day difference without Buxton out there making up for Grossman's terrible range. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Someone else's? Sure. That wasn't happening here, for good or bad. And some new FO was going to magically get him re-aligned either.

 

Not to mention, Meyer has long been more about hype than production. If we're going to grab someone else's reclamation project I sure as hell hope they've been more productive players. I want to help guys figure it out, not rebuild them Bionic Man style at age 27.

In the universe of baseball prospects, Meyer is nowhere the leaders in hype/production differential. He obviously wasn't perfect, but Meyer really did produce through 2014. And he hasn't really failed on the field yet outside 8 starts at AAA in 2015, sandwiched around much better results at the same level.

 

No guarantee they would get him on the right track, but Meyer is absolutely someone I wanted a new front office (and potentially new field staff, etc.) to be able to evaluate through 2017, more so than giving the new front office an $8 mil option for 2017 on Hector Santiago.

[Brock Beauchamp]

He does? Dang, then I like the trade less than I did....still don't hate it like some do, but now I am even more "meh" than I was before.

I've been meh on it from the outset. It wasn't a bad trade by any means but I didn't understand the accolades given it, either.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Meyer returned to game action in the Angels system a few days ago:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/angels-alex-meyer-makes-debut-with-angels-affiliate-friday/

Oy.

 

 

(What Ashburyjohn said)

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I've been meh on it from the outset. It wasn't a bad trade by any means but I didn't understand the accolades given it, either.

The accolades come from:

 

1. Freeing Nolasco

2. Cost savings on Santiago let loose after 2016

3. Going along with the idea that Meyer might have chronic shoulder problems

 

If neither of the last two end up true, then any love for this trade needs to be reconsidered.

[Otto von Ballpark]

When I read articles of this trade from the Angels perspective and their expectations of Meyer, and combine that with questions about how legitimate his injury was, I can't help but wonder if Meyer was sitting out while Boras demanded a trade. I'm a cynic, I know.

I doubt it. If anything, the Twins may have been extra cautious with him in an effort to hold off surgery until they could trade him.

 

I do wonder if he will get back any service time for his DL stint. Not that it should matter much to Meyer's value either way.